Pragmatic Pre-Grouping - Mikkel's Workbench

[BWsTrains]

21 hours ago, Mikkel said:

The windows are filled with cathedral glass of pretty design,

 

Given the Era and the window at Birmingham, Art Nouveau seems highly credible for Newbury.

[Mikkel]

Thank you all for the info and ideas, which has helped make this little side-project more tangible. I am away from home right now but will experiment as soon as I get back.

 

Regarding the motif. Since I don't know what the original looked like, I could in principle make my own design. Stuck in a hotel room last night, I wondered if Artifical Intelligence could help me. So I asked the DALL-E bot, to create for me "a simple edwardian glass window with stylized flowers in faint red and green colours in the style of art niveau seen directly from the front".

 

 

Not bad, if a little too elaborate for my purposes, I think. Further tweaking might help though.

 

I also tried a feature of DALL-E that was new to me, namely an image upload feature. Below I have uploaded a crop from Birmingham New Street and asked it to create similar images. These could be reworked to the right pespective and coloured in an image editing programme.

 

But frankly, isn't this intellectual laziness? Why not just design it myself? Anyway, always interesting to consider the possibilities that this new tech stuff offers.

 

Edited April 27, 2023 by Mikkel

[Schooner]

39 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

isn't this intellectual laziness?

Yes, but so what?!

 

It's another tool. If you don't choose to spend your free time getting under the skin of Art Nouveau railway interior design practices to invent something proto-literate, you can still have a unique design which will be more-or-less accurate. No bad thing.

 

I mean, personally I'll judge you forever after such an unforgivable lapse of dedication, but others may be weaker more understanding...

 

:)

 

[kitpw]

38 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

Why not just design it myself?

I'm probably wrong, but I suspect that the Newbury decorative window glass was probably picked from a catalogue: I don't think there was a decorative glass shop at Swindon!  I've found before when trying to hunt down trade catalogues that there are more from USA on the web than from UK (almost none - I was looking for UK paint colour cards of 1920 last time around). This is an American catalogue for 1914. https://ctgpublishing.com/stained-glass-window-art-of-1910/: it shows what I was hoping might be available from Uk but couldn't find any for the Edwardian period - they'll be there somewhere, maybe the V & A?

 

On a slightly different tack, the technology is quite interesting - some leaded windows had horizontal steel bars (about 5mm diameter) at regular centres, perhaps two or three per panel, to which the leadwork which holds the glass was attached with small wire ties.  I think some of the glass illustrations up thread show that.

 

 

 

[BWsTrains]

4 hours ago, kitpw said:

I'm probably wrong, but I suspect that the Newbury decorative window glass was probably picked from a catalogue: I don't think there was a decorative glass shop at Swindon! 

 

Customised windows of the style were being installed in a private home down here in Melbourne Vic. in 1902, featuring local flora and fauna. I think the GWR design team probably were not restricted to shopping just in Swindon.

 

Details of an art Nouveau Stained Glass Window in East Malvern

 

 

 

 

Edited April 27, 2023 by BWsTrains
typo

[phil_sutters]

On 26/04/2023 at 07:01, Mikkel said:

A different technique here, a crop from a  photo taken at Oxford:

 

 

 

 

 

 

This hexagonal style is a more Victorian design. A fairly recent Repair Shop renovation had a smaller panel with rather wider hexagons. Nice to see the water tank filler safely parked with its handles around the pillar. The laundry hamper is a nice item to have if you have a buffet posh enough to have table cloths, or I suppose a railway hotel, on your layout.

Edited April 28, 2023 by phil_sutters

[Compound2632]

15 hours ago, Mikkel said:

But frankly, isn't this intellectual laziness? 

 

I'd say yes. The fruit of your close observation of reality is far more illuminating.

 

And is it just me that thinks the AI has a propensity to draw childish silly faces in the tracery?

Edited April 28, 2023 by Compound2632

[phil_sutters]

On 27/04/2023 at 17:30, kitpw said:

..it shows what I was hoping might be available from Uk but couldn't find any for the Edwardian period - they'll be there somewhere, maybe the V & A?

 

On a slightly different tack, the technology is quite interesting - some leaded windows had horizontal steel bars (about 5mm diameter) at regular centres, perhaps two or three per panel, to which the leadwork which holds the glass was attached with small wire ties.  I think some of the glass illustrations up thread show that.

 

 

 

Having taken a fair amount of photos of stained glass, almost exclusively in churches, for a fund raising slide-show, the supporting bars are very common. As many church windows are very tall there are frequent bars across the glass. Some artists and installers manage to keep the images and supports coordinated, but on some occasions the bars cut across the images, with unfortunate results.

Most of my photos were taken in south London and in Sussex - areas I have been living in. Looking through my photos, I confirmed that after the Victorian renaissance in coloured glass in churches, many originals having been smashed in the Puritan era, the first half of the 20th century seems to have been a much quieter period for stained glass artists. Whether that is true for secular glass I am not sure. 1930s houses quite often seem to have decorative panels at the tops of bay windows or in and/or over front doors.

One thing I found interesting was that, while Anglican churches favoured English studios, Roman Catholic churches preferred to commission their windows from Irish or continental studios.

Anyone interested in seeing my snaps can find them here - http://www.ipernity.com/doc/philsutters/album/1209088

Edited April 28, 2023 by phil_sutters

[kitpw]

18 minutes ago, phil_sutters said:

Anyone interested in seeing my snaps can find them here - http://www.ipernity.com/doc/philsutters/album/1209088

Marvellous pictures of wonderful glass, thanks for posting the link.  It reminded me that having lived in London for rather more than half a century, I've never been inside Southwark Cathedral. 

 

When I read @Mikkel's original post about the Newbury tea room glass, I was immediately reminded of Charles Rennie Mackintosh's Willow Tea Rooms in Glasgow .  If unfamiler to anybody, this link (and many others from Google) will take you there: https://www.mackintoshatthewillow.com/.  A bit over the top for adaption to Farthing's tea room windows but quintessential Art Nouveau decorative glass.  

 

As an addition to my post above, the V & A's website says this "The National Art Library (at the V & A) holds numerous examples of trade catalogues within its collections. Some items entered the Library during the 19th century, and both current and retrospective examples of trade catalogues have been added to the collections throughout the 20th century."  Which answers my question.  I'll check it out when I'm next in South Ken: there are several different enquiries which might be answered by reference to period trade catalogues.

 

[Worsdell forever]

2 hours ago, kitpw said:

When I read @Mikkel's original post about the Newbury tea room glass, I was immediately reminded of Charles Rennie Mackintosh's Willow Tea Rooms in Glasgow .  If unfamiler to anybody, this link (and many others from Google) will take you there: https://www.mackintoshatthewillow.com/.  A bit over the top for adaption to Farthing's tea room windows but quintessential Art Nouveau decorative glass.  

 

We had a superb afternoon tea there a few years ago, January 2020 I think, amazing place.

[Mikkel]

Thanks all, some lovely stained glass on show in those links. I've also enjoyed the site below, which - assuming they know what they're doing - has 15 pages of Edwardian Art Noveau and is also convenient for comparison across different periods/styles as they also have Victorian and 1930s Art Deco.

 

https://www.corianderstainedglass.co.uk/our-stained-glass-portfolio/edwardian-stained-glass/

 

(different from the one Dave linked to earlier, though they look the same 🙂)

 

Edited May 2, 2023 by Mikkel
edited link

[Mikkel]

I’ve had a first go at making stained glass for the refreshment- and tea rooms at Farthing, though it needs more work.

I adapted the design seen at Birmingham Moor Street in a 1910 photo. It was drawn up in Inkscape, then reworked to fit the windows at Farthing. I left out the finer details, which don't come out when printed to 4mm scale.

 

 

 

As Phil said, you have to beef up the colours to make them properly visible when printed. Scribing the leading didn’t work. The lines are too close in 4mm scale, it looks coarse and the multiple passes distort the glazing. So it is just printed on.

 

 

As I didn't have any transparency film around, I printed my first tests on transfer paper…

 

 

…then overlaid it with sticky-backed clear glazing, to firm it up and protect the print.

 

 

 

I then removed the backing of the transfer paper, leaving a transparent print.

 

 
This method works OK but I suspect it’s better to print on transparency film, so I have ordered some of that. I will also change the design, it looks too much like a christmas decoration 😊 

 

Edited May 2, 2023 by Mikkel
Wrong image

[Neal Ball]

1 minute ago, Mikkel said:

I’ve had a first go at making stained glass for the refreshment- and tea rooms at Farthing, though it needs more work.

I adapted the design seen at Birmingham Moor Street in a 1910 photo. It was drawn up in Inkscape, then reworked to fit the windows at Farthing. I left out the finer details, which don't come out when printed to 4mm scale.

 

 

 

As Phil said, you have to beef up the colours to make them properly visible when printed. Scribing the leading didn’t work. The lines are too close in 4mm scale, it looks coarse and the multiple passes distort the glazing. So it is just printed on.

 

 

As I didn't have any transparency film around, I printed my first tests on transfer paper…

 

 

…then overlaid it with sticky-backed clear glazing, to firm it up and protect the print.

 

 

 

I then removed the backing of the transfer paper, leaving a transparent print.

 

 
This method works OK but I suspect it’s better to print on transparency film, so I have ordered some of that. I will also change the design, it looks too much like a christmas decoration 😊 

 

That’s going to look great, I should hope the residents at Farthing appreciate the efforts you’ve gone to!

[Mikkel]

Thanks Neal. Unfortunately the residents at Farthing seem to take everything for granted. It's time they endured some hardship, maybe I'll send an LSWR train down their way 😄

 

 

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, Mikkel said:

maybe I'll send an LSWR train down their way

 

It's good for them to know what they're missing. Before you know it, they'll be petitioning Waterloo to exercise its running powers on a regular basis:

 

 

[Embedded link to South Western Circle website.]

[Nick Gough]

Mikkel, I thought you might be interested to see a recently added exhibit to the GWS museum at Didcot:

[Mikkel]

Thank you Nick! And thanks to those involved in saving and restoring it.

 

It's very interesting for my model of Newbury's main station building, as the stained glass pattern used in Newbury's refreshment rooms is unknown (so far). So in the absence of that, this would be an obvious candidate for the model - especially as Newbury's overall style originated with the 1899 station at Westbury.

 

The only problem is that it may be difficult to reproduce in 4mm scale, as the detail is quite small. I must see if I can find out the approximate size.

 

[Nick Gough]

1 hour ago, Mikkel said:

I must see if I can find out the approximate size.

 

My other photo may help - in comparison with the brickwork behind:

[Mikkel]

Perfect, thanks Nick!

 

I assume this would have been just once per window, with some other less detailed patterns around it. Here's a fairly simple design at Copenhagen Central, for example.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 18, 2023 by Mikkel

[Mikkel]

Just had a look through my limited collection of GWR stained glass window photos. This close-up (discussed upthread) of what is assumed to be the former refreshment rooms at Oxford's old timber station seems to show the monogram in the top window. Scrutiny of the lower window also seems to show a monogram or similar.

 

 

I'm wondering if the monogram in stained glass was a late Victorian thing. Stained glass windows from refreshment rooms dating from the 1900s don't seem to show a monogram, tending instead towards the stylized flowers and generally lighter designs. 

 

Edited July 18, 2023 by Mikkel

[MikeOxon]

1 hour ago, Mikkel said:

Oxford's old timber station

as Beerbohm put it - " that antique station, which, familiar to them and insignificant, does yet whisper to the tourist the last enchantments of the Middle Age."

[wagonman]

4 hours ago, MikeOxon said:

as Beerbohm put it - " that antique station, which, familiar to them and insignificant, does yet whisper to the tourist the last enchantments of the Middle Age."

 

Perhaps a scale replica of Ms Dobson leaning against the railings?

[David Bigcheeseplant]

On 20/04/2023 at 19:47, Mikkel said:

A little update on the construction of Newbury Farthing station. 

 

I'm gradually building up the walls with multiple laminated layers.  I found it possible to cut 2mm foamboard right through with my Silhouette cutter, which is fairly deep for these machines. But as seen below, it is not a very neat cut.

 

 

So instead I went for sheets of 1mm Foamex from Green Stuff World. The Silhouette cuts this neatly, but only partly through because it is much denser material. So good old hand cutting is needed too. Am I the only one who enjoys that delicious “snap” when a component breaks free?

 

   

 

Here is the first layer of Foamex fitted behind the brick "skin". 
 

 

 

A homemade kit of parts is developing.

 

 

 

Test examples of the single and double doors and windows were cut and built up. They are a bit scruffy, must be my gluey fingers. Still a schoolboy after all these years.

 

 

But rather than build all the doors and windows individually, I decided to cut them in full layered sheets. So far there are three of these layers, as seen below.

 

 

 

Below are the three layers overlaid.  Arguably a little wasteful, but it results in a full and even layer of sheets, which themselves add strength, and behind which further layers can be added.

 

 

 

Here are the window- and door- sheets placed behind the brick skin and the Foamex. The doors look a little flat, so a  further layer is on the way to increase depth.
 

 

The whole thing will eventually be fitted on a carcass of Foamex, but not before all the details have been added while the walls are still in the flat.

 

 

Looking good, I am working on a model of Princes Risborough station which is a similar design, I am thinking of 3D printing the carcass of the building and having laser cut windows and doors, if my idea works I can create the rounded corners to window and door reveals. attached is a couple of screen shots of my model in Fusion 360.

David 

[Coal Tank]

3 hours ago, David Bigcheeseplant said:

Looking good, I am working on a model of Princes Risborough station which is a similar design, I am thinking of 3D printing the carcass of the building and having laser cut windows and doors, if my idea works I can create the rounded corners to window and door reveals. attached is a couple of screen shots of my model in Fusion 360.

David 

They look fantastic 

[Mikkel]

They do indeed. Interesting to see the same design on another model. It has been a bit overlooked as a feature of the period, other than the brief mention by Vaughan. Capturing the rounded corners would really add to the close-up views.

 

My build is rather old-school by comparison (currently sticking on the Bath stone embellishments bit by bit).