Coach-y question

[New Haven Neil]

Is it me, or is that a Mark 1 coach with Gresley bogies?

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/david_christie/6079120366/in/photostream/

[keefer]

Looks like an RU, some had Gresley bogies fitted in an attempt to cure the bad riding quality of the standard BR bogies which although fine when new, quickly deteriorated. This was especially important for dining cars - later, Commonwealth and B4/B5 bogies were used, although some Gresley-fitted ones remained so until the late 70s

[TheSignalEngineer]

Some catering vehicles did have them for a time at least. No doubt Robert Carroll wil pop up soon to give us the full story.

[Boris]

Weren't they the slightly heavier duty Gresley bogies rather than the standard ones, or am I getting confused again?

[DavidB]

Some had Gresley bogies fitted in an attempt to cure the bad riding

As a matter of interest, did it work? The only times that I've travelled at any kind of speed in Gresley-bogied stock, the ride was consistently appalling - and while this was only on AM3 and AM4 EMUs, rather than loco-hauled stock, the AM4s were Mk1 stock and presumably had similar bogie mounting arrangements to the RUs. If the ride quality was similar to an AM4, I dread to think what it was like for the diners in one of those RUs. Maybe that's why the experiment doesn't seem to have been applied more widely across the Mk1 fleet.

 

[Overt Western-bias mode on] It's probably just as well that the clever engineers at Swindon spent the mid/late 50s developing a much better bogie design (the B4) for later build coaches [overt Western-bias mode off].

 

David

[Poor Old Bruce]

AFAIK the bogies fitted to EMUs were a cheaper single bolster version of the Gresley bogie. The proper double bolster Gresleys rode much better (in fact most things rode much better for that matter). The BR1 bogies acually gave an excellent ride when ex-works but as soon as they developed some wheel tread wear (I have heard 20,000 miles mentioned), the ride started to deteriorate.

[eastwestdivide]

My 1976 RCTS coach book (the oldest I have) shows 7 RU (unclassified restaurant) vehicles fitted with Gresley bogies, E1926 E1928* E1929 W1930 W1931 E1936 E1937.

*1928 regraded as RB(s) whatever that means - restaurant/buffet presumably.

 

(In between those numbers, 1927/33/34 still existed then, with CW/B2/CW bogies respectively).

 

 

Edit: the 1978 book still shows 1928/29/36/37 with Gresley bogies, and the others: 1926 not listed and 1930/31 with CW

 

I can convince myself that the photo in the OP shows E193-something

[keefer]

As a matter of interest, did it work? The only times that I've travelled at any kind of speed in Gresley-bogied stock, the ride was consistently appalling - and while this was only on AM3 and AM4 EMUs, rather than loco-hauled stock, the AM4s were Mk1 stock and presumably had similar bogie mounting arrangements to the RUs. If the ride quality was similar to an AM4, I dread to think what it was like for the diners in one of those RUs. Maybe that's why the experiment doesn't seem to have been applied more widely across the Mk1 fleet.

 

[Overt Western-bias mode on] It's probably just as well that the clever engineers at Swindon spent the mid/late 50s developing a much better bogie design (the B4) for later build coaches [overt Western-bias mode off].

 

David

I think that more Gresleys might have been used were it not for the Commonwealth bogie becoming available. Despite their weight and cost penalty, the CW did have a good ride which lasted. The B4 and B5 eventually came in, but not all vehicles would immediately get the new bogies, presumably those in front line high speed service would get them first.

[Poor Old Bruce]

It's probably just as well that the clever engineers at Swindon spent the mid/late 50s developing a much better bogie design (the B4) for later build coaches

 

I think that more Gresleys might have been used were it not for the Commonwealth bogie becoming available. Despite their weight and cost penalty, the CW did have a good ride which lasted. The B4 and B5 eventually came in, but not all vehicles would immediately get the new bogies, presumably those in front line high speed service would get them first.

 

If the Swindon guys were so clever, why did they provide ineffective damping for the helical primary suspension springs on B4s, to the extent that the bogie frame pitched at 3-4 Hz. It was somewhat disconcerting to stand in the cess at the side of the GWML and see the bogie action, especially in the knowledge that it was not unknown for the odd brake block to come adrift (IIRC the pitching made the retaining pins work out of place) and fly through the air (or even a coach window)!

[robertcwp]

The only loco-hauled Mark I stock that I can think of that had Gresley bogies were some RUs as discussed above. Only the final batch of this type E1959-91, was build with Commonwealth bogies from new. 

 

E1928_APR-73 by robertcwp, on Flickr

 

Various others, including earlier ones rebuilt as RB(S) gained a B4 at the seated end and a B5 at the kitchen end, as shown here - note red springs for B4 and blue springs (and other differences) for B5:

 

W1946_BTM by robertcwp, on Flickr