dcc concepts legacy Stainless Steel Rail

[Grovenor]

I have asked DCC Concepts re this and had no response in some weeks.

Richard Johnson of DCC Concepts is on here and posts #9 and #11 came from him.

Keith

[cooley_boy]

I have asked DCC Concepts re this and had no response in some weeks.

Gaugemaster stock it

[Lancs_fus]

Hello,

 

I am using the DCC Concepts stainless bull head in point work coupled with their printed circuit board sleepers with etched pads, pre-cut to length in the post here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/102234-soldered-point-work-on-lancs-fus-midland-peak-district-layout/

 

I am using the no clean flux from DCC Concepts and the 50W Antex temp controlled soldering iron on maximum as recommended which is over 400 degrees C and having cleaned the underside of the rail with an abrasive it takes the solder relatively easily requiring the iron to be in contact for approximately 2 seconds. In the rail attached so far I have had 4 joints that didn't take out of about 60 and simply had re-applied some flux and remade the joint. Cleaning the iron tip on the damp sponge and always applying a little of the 179 degree melt point solder has made up neat joints that allow for cosmetic chair placement afterwards if desired.

 

For electrical connection I have now pre-drilled a 1.3mm hole through the sleeper pad adjacent to the the rail I wish to make live (such as the frog) and soldered the dropper to the sleeper as opposed to the rail underside itself. Should negate any issues with respect to direct to rail soldering. A fibreglass pen has proven valuable to clean the rail sides at the sleeper locations just prior to applying the flux which helps the solder adhere to the side of the rail a little too. Don't think it matters too much as the solder wicks in under the rail and onto the pad quite easily.

 

I haven't made a vee yet out of the stainless as I am using up old C&L ones I already had.

 

Hope some of this assists - so far, so good.

Edited August 24, 2015 by Lancs_fus

[Re6/6]

Thanks for that info.

 

Where did you get your 'no clean' flux from? Hattons list it but have no stock and C&L don't have any of the alternative (tho' aggressive!) brown label (except a large size which is expensive!).

Edited August 24, 2015 by Re6/6

[Tase]

John,

 

Gaugemaster has some.

 

http://www.gaugemaster.com/item_details.asp?code=DCDCS-SFNC&r=1

[Lancs_fus]

I live about 30 minutes drive from DCC Concepts so it is easy for me to pick up their items in person and have a natter while I'm at it.

[ClikC]

Is this rail available from a supplier in the UK?

 

Obviously it can be ordered from Oz!

Digging up an old post. I understand C&L finescale sell it.

 

I wonder if anyone has tried this now? What is the Railhead profile like? I have to say I am tempted by stainless myself, and I'd love to see some code 82/83 flatbottom rail to represent BS11-113A fb rail in Stainless Steel.

 

In theory it is would be quite adaptable to Colin Craig's track construction method.

 

Regards

 

Matt

[rjh]

Hello,

 

re six bolt fishplates..

 

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=5QYmBAAAQBAJ&pg=PA88&lpg=PA88&dq=six+bolt+fishplate&source=bl&ots=LHLFhT5zxg&sig=cgyGElqWjVbxoBxSwqocyCCK-UQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiMqv_n6v3NAhXLD8AKHfclDPEQ6AEIPDAI#v=onepage&q=six%20bolt%20fishplate&f=false

 

extract from: 

Railway Track Engineering, Fourth Edition

2009

by J. S. Mundrey

Publisher: Mc Graw Hill India (2009) 

ISBN-10: 0070680124 ISBN-13: 978-0070680128

quote, last para below:

 

Regards, Rodney Hills

[Southernman46]

Some interesting IBJ cut-away stuff showing the internals on the Tenconi website

 

http://www.tenconi.ch/en/products/plastic-materials.html

Edited July 18, 2016 by Southernman46

[Re6/6]

I wonder if anyone has tried this now? What is the Railhead profile like? 

 

Matt we fitted it on Balcombe Viaduct but have since removed it. This was because it required a fair amount of heat to get their special flux and solder to work thus making it impossible to solder on droppers onto it (Exactoscale FastTrack) without melting the chairs, We will be experimenting further with it (as an expensive quantity was bought and after a special trip to Gaugemaster in Ford!) What would seem essential would be to solder droppers on before fitting bases if you were to be going down the Exacto route. That would take some further planning of course.

 

Regarding profile it looks good to me and one would expect the appearance and the resistance to tarnishing/dirt to be good. When fitting it to Exacto bases is is very slightly smaller in profile inasmuch as it slides very easily which as far as I can see is no problem.

 

The main thing to be careful with is that it is surprisingly soft. Once accidentally bent it is very difficult to get it back dead straight.

 

All in all it does look good like steel without all the pitfalls of using ordinary steel which is impossible when used in coastal salty environments which we've found to our cost down here in the past.

[Grovenor]

Hello,

 

re six bolt fishplates

Rodney,

That is generic info, none of which indicates that 6 hole fishplates have had any significant use on UK bullhead track or in UK bullhead pointwork, which is the usage that DCC Concepts are offering them for.

I would be interested in any evidence of such use on UK railways.

Regards

[Godders]

I keep reading this thread and for the life in me I cannot see any reason to use Stainless Steel for rail.

As far as I can see it has no advantages over existing materials.

On the contrary it has many negatives; it doesn't look like carbon steel rail, it is difficult to work in almost every way, drilling, soldering,drawing, it has poor electrical characteristics and it is expensive.

DCC Concepts say it is a 3xx series SS but this series varies so much in it's composition that it means nothing.

I worked with Stainless Steel for 50 years in the Petrochem industry. It was used there because of it's anti corrosion abilities but that was in a very aggressive atmosphere. Even there we used it with sparingly.

So please somebody tell me what I'm missing.

[Stephen Freeman]

Soldering - Building 0 Gauge online have a Safety Flux which works just as well as the DCC if not better and is cheaper, though it is not no-clean, if that is important to you.

 

I haven't tried soldering the rail in the vicinity of plastic chairs but can imagine that special precautions will be called for. Heatsink clips and 50 watt, large tip as will fit and you might just get away with it. Failing that have you considered using wire glue re-inforced with super glue? I might just try that myself, the dropper could be soldered to a non-functional fishplate (of your choice), i.e. brass etched and then the fishplate "glued" to the rail - wire glue has the prototypical advantage of being black.

Edited July 20, 2016 by Stephen Freeman

[hayfield]

Godders

 

Being someone who champions chaired track construction, I am at a loss as to why some still happily use older methods of track construction. But they do and its their right to do so. For my own situation nicklesilver is still the best option as the loco wheels I use are nicklesilver. For those who use steel loco wheels stainless steel may be a better alternative to normal steel rail. Then of course there are those who model on the coast and stainless steel may be the answer they have been waiting for

 

I will watch this development with interest and an open mind as once in use other benefits may arrise

[hayfield]

Soldering - Building 0 Gauge online have a Safety Flux which works just as well as the DCC if not better and is cheaper, though it is not no-clean, if that is important to you.

 

I haven't tried soldering the rail in the vicinity of plastic chairs but can imagine that special precautions will be called for. Heatsink clips and 50 watt, large tip as will fit and you might just get away with it. Failing that have you considered using wire glue re-inforced with super glue? I might just try that myself, the dropper could be soldered to a non-functional fishplate (of your choice), i.e. brass etched and then the fishplate "glued" to the rail - wire glue has the prototypical advantage of being black.

 

Whilst push to fit electrical contacts are common in many situations (cars come to mind), for railway modelling most prefer the soldering of wires to rail rather than relying on push fit connections. Tight fitting rail joiners seem up for the job, scale fishplates I guess not. The DCC solution seems to be a compromise between. Pre-soldering 1 dropper wire prior to fitting the chairs could be the answer if using scale fishplates

[Stephen Freeman]

Whilst push to fit electrical contacts are common in many situations (cars come to mind), for railway modelling most prefer the soldering of wires to rail rather than relying on push fit connections. Tight fitting rail joiners seem up for the job, scale fishplates I guess not. The DCC solution seems to be a compromise between. Pre-soldering 1 dropper wire prior to fitting the chairs could be the answer if using scale fishplates

Did I say anything about a push fit? The use of wire glue is well proven though it does not have much mechanical strength hence the need to re-inforce once set.

[martin_wynne]

Did I say anything about a push fit?

 

Why the combative style? This is a friendly forum to exchange useful information between fellow modellers.

 

Martin.

[Godders]

Godders

 

Being someone who champions chaired track construction, I am at a loss as to why some still happily use older methods of track construction. But they do and its their right to do so. For my own situation nicklesilver is still the best option as the loco wheels I use are nicklesilver. For those who use steel loco wheels stainless steel may be a better alternative to normal steel rail. Then of course there are those who model on the coast and stainless steel may be the answer they have been waiting for

 

I will watch this development with interest and an open mind as once in use other benefits may arrise

John

 

Please don't see this as an attack, it's not.

 

I am not questioning Richard's right to choose whatever metal he will. I am questioning why he chose SS. I was asking for any advantage over conventional rail materials.

 

I have used every available rail material, except stainless, and have never had corrosion problems with any of them and I have lived by the sea; Dover and Scheveningen, as well as inland.

 

If adhesion is a problem how about Stainless Steel with Carbon Steel; SS for the Wheels, CS for the rail. BTW I thought Richard was championing "Magnadhesion", "Powerbase".

[Stephen Freeman]

No intention of being combative but Push on Rail Joiners don't figure in my way of doing things unless customer says otherwise - just too many bad experiences. I haven't tried either the wire glue on rails for making an electrical connection with the fold over type etched brass fishplate to which a dropper wire has been pre-soldered on or the heat sink approach. Personally I think the wire glue method should work just fine as long as it is re-inforced with super glue after it has set. I'll see if I can find  a few of the etched brass ones to try before saying more.

 

There are quite a few instances when it is necessary to make an electrical joint without soldering or relying on a push fit and I have found Wire Glue to be very effective.

 

Unfortunately the Code 75 BH mild steel rail we have:

A) Will rust - Just depends how soon and how badly on the conditons/location it is used in rather than just proximity to the seaside.

B) Just looks too grey.

 

Hi-Ni rail comes close to replicating the polished running surface of the prototype but not quite as close DCC Concepts rail.

Of course for rusty sidings etc there is always Phosphor Bronze.

 

As far as haulage is concerned, it was always my understanding that the use of dis-similar metals worked best, .i.e. NS wheels with Steel rail or Steel wheels with NS rail. Discounting the possible advantages of Magnahesion.

Edited July 20, 2016 by Stephen Freeman

[Grovenor]

Of course for rusty sidings etc there is always Phosphor Bronze

Which looks nothing like rust to me!

I find layouts using it to look very odd, nice and shiny but completely wrong colour.

Regards

[Stephen Freeman]

Which looks nothing like rust to me!

I find layouts using it to look very odd, nice and shiny but completely wrong colour.

Regards

Hi,

I wasn't really being serious. However, if you paint the sides and don't clean it too much, possibly a rub over with very soft pencil perhaps.

[Stephen Freeman]

Hi,

I seem to have posted the reply about the dropper situation on the other thread, in the smaller suppliers section.

 

Right.. I have managed to successfully solder a Palatine Models dropper in place, by turning the track over, it's handbuilt just in case you were wondering with the DCC Concepts rail, C&L chairs and plywood timbers. I tinned both rail and dropper. Solder was Rapids Lead Free, Flux was "Building 0 Gauge online" Safety flux. Iron was a Maplin A55KJ TC solder station at 450C. Chairs remained intact.

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[Re6/6]

Thanks for that Stephen. I was obviously doing it wrong.

 

Must persevere!

[Stephen Freeman]

Hi,

Fishplates now arrived from EMGS stores, so I'll give the wire glue approach a try. Just got to let it dry now.

Edited July 28, 2016 by Stephen Freeman

[Stephen Freeman]

Hi,

 

I secured the fishplate to the rail bending it over and then applied a generous amount of wire glue. Left it for a few days to really dry out and then soldered a dropper wire to the loop. Iron is a 60watt Temperature Controlled one running at 450C, solder was Rapids Lead Free, Flux was once again the "Building 0 Gauge online" Safety Flux. I will eventually re-inforce the wire glue with super-glue.