InterCity's Wagon Fleet

[James Makin]

Ok so here's a silly question...

 

I gather the InterCity sector was responsible for some of the ZKA 'Limpet' ballast wagon fleet, complete with branding, presumably for some sort of route modernisation projects(?) - question is, under sectorisation - why was this?

 

It's far out from their core passenger focus - why would the sectorised InterCity not contract in Civil Engineering departmental wagons for usage rather than have wagons of it's own? Did the Railfreight sectors also have their own maintenance wagons, not allocated centrally to Civil Engineering?

 

Seems an interesting subject that I've not seen much written about, even in the back issues of my old magazines from the 90s, can anyone shed any light on what the arrangements were for these wagons?

 

Many thanks,

James

[Mark Saunders]

_{It was all about sectorisation under BR as each sector was responsible for each portion of line!}

 

_{Inter-city,  Network Southeast, Regional was then broken down by geography!}

 

_{Freight was then broken down by the traffic which was generally the main user!}

 

_{Each sector had its own civil engineers resources, hence the Intercity branding on the Limpets converted at Currock!}

 

_{Short lived as the world changed soon after!}

 

_{The ownership of Signalboxes was a nightmare as this was in theory by route but if a box was more freight it was a freight sector box, I think Tees and Grangetown (Cleveland) were freight!}

 

_{Mark Saunders}

[James Makin]

_{It was all about sectorisation under BR as each sector was responsible for each portion of line!}

 

_{Inter-city,  Network Southeast, Regional was then broken down by geography!}

 

_{Freight was then broken down by the traffic which was generally the main user!}

 

_{Each sector had its own civil engineers resources, hence the Intercity branding on the Limpets converted at Currock!}

 

_{Short lived as the world changed soon after!}

 

_{The ownership of Signalboxes was a nightmare as this was in theory by route but if a box was more freight it was a freight sector box, I think Tees and Grangetown (Cleveland) were freight!}

 

_{Mark Saunders}

 

Thanks Mark, that's really interesting,

 

It's always seemed bizarre to Intercity logos on a freight wagon, are there any other strange instances beyond the Limpets that anyone's aware of?

 

Cheers,

James

[Glorious NSE]

It's always seemed bizarre to Intercity logos on a freight wagon, are there any other strange instances beyond the Limpets that anyone's aware of?

 

The same logo's could be found on Gunnells, which I guess were converted about the same time - not sure about anything else.

 

I think the allocation of engineering equipment to the sectors was also the reason for some 33s and 73s getting late NSE paint for example as well. At the time some 56s were also allocated to the NSE sector for infrastructure work, they didn't get repainted, but that would have been an interesting "might have been"!

[sub39h]

Does anyone have any pictures of Intercity or NSE branded freight wagons please? This thread has got me interested

[John M Upton]

There was a NSE blue painted and branded (the lozenge logos at least) Queen Mary brake van once.  I think Bachmann even did a model of it.

[Scottish Modeller]

Hi all,

 

Most of the Intercity branded HGA's had the logo painted over.

 

Traces of this can be seen just above the TOPS panel.

 

Sample photo:-

 

https://flic.kr/p/e1XKAe

 

Google and FlickR search on "Gunnell wagons" "Limpet Wagons" or with "ZFA" "HGA" will bring up plenty of examples.

 

Thanks

[tamperman36]

There were also some stingray wagons which carried the intercity markings (stingray are the seacows with generater and lighting fitted), also there where some trackplant which carried these markings. If you look in one of the platform 5 books on track plant there is a picture of a pair of dynamic track stabilizers, one with intercity markings and one with network southeast. I also remember seeing the intercity markingson a couple of different types of tamper.

If you want to model anything with these markings Fox transfers do a set sheet of intercity markings on a red background pack number F4273 in 4mm.

[Rivercider]

I think it was as a result of the Organising for Quality initiative in 1991, part of the ongoing Sectorisation scheme.

I went to work at Westbury for the fledgling Trainload Freight at that time.

Each route was allocated to a business, we at Westbury 'owned'  some freight only routes  like the Meldon branch for example,

 

cheers

[The Bigbee Line]

I think it was as a result of the Organising for Quality initiative in 1991, part of the ongoing Sectorisation scheme.

I went to work at Westbury for the fledgling Trainload Freight at that time.

Each route was allocated to a business, we at Westbury 'owned' some freight only routes like the Meldon branch for example,

 

cheers

Organising for Quality "O for Q". Say that one quickly and it sounds like "Oh f**k you!"

 

Brings back memories. At Railfreight Distribution we had Longbridge Signal Box.

[Mark Saunders]

Organising for Quality "O for Q". Say that one quickly and it sounds like "Oh f**k you!"

Brings back memories. At Railfreight Distribution we had Longbridge Signal Box.

About the same time BSC had TQP 'total quality production' or "the quick push"!

 

Mark Saunders

[Merfyn Jones]

The road vehicle fleet was similarly separated to the sectors and had branding like on the wagons. This one Crewe based I believe.

[Pugsley]

I also remember seeing the intercity markingson a couple of different types of tamper.

ISTR that the 09/32 tampers had Intercity markings on them.

 

The only Network South East branded wagons I'm aware of was the Skako ballast train, and I think only the generator van was actually branded.

[russ p]

Didn't the dynamic track stabilisers (DTSs) have Inter-city markings?

[Glorious NSE]

There was a NSE blue painted and branded (the lozenge logos at least) Queen Mary brake van once. I think Bachmann even did a model of it.

Also a 4 wheel southern van and a BR standard in the same scheme now you mention it. Think I can add some images later tonight.

 

On the subject of OTP, don't forget the NSE snowblower!

[Lyddrail]

Network South East owned a lot of wagons, rail plant, locos etc, but few wagons were branded. The NSE blue brake vans were used at Old Oak Common for the movement of wagons for repairs.

 

The Skako ballast train was branded but was really on-track plant (see below).

 

 

Cheers.

 

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

I think it was as a result of the Organising for Quality initiative in 1991, part of the ongoing Sectorisation scheme.

I went to work at Westbury for the fledgling Trainload Freight at that time.

Each route was allocated to a business, we at Westbury 'owned'  some freight only routes  like the Meldon branch for example,

 

cheers

1992 -94.  The Regions were abolished and everything was reorganised into ownership by the sectors - I had considerable as part of the small group with members from each of the businesses which reallocated the Western Region to its various new owners.  And of course we then had to have one or two inspection specials to go and look at some of what we owned but as TLF inspection specials were sponsored by the sub-sectors it was they who decided what we could go to look at.

[Glorious NSE]

Here's the other blue vans, ADB955009 and DS56010

[Jim Martin]

There were also some stingray wagons which carried the intercity markings (stingray are the seacows with generater and lighting fitted)

That is very interesting. Did any of these wagons actually carry Intercity livery? A few years ago I saw a lengthy set of ballast hoppers at Edge Hill. These were in a variety of liveries and most were heavily rusted. A few were in a scheme that looked very much like Intercity: they were so rust-stained that all the colours were basically shades of orangey-brown, but they were clearly striped, the proportions were very similar to the Intercity colour scheme and the tones would have matched the layout of light and dark bits.

 

Jim

[tamperman36]

The stingrays did have a thin red stripe in the yellow part of the livery.

[Scottish Modeller]

The stingrays did have a thin red stripe in the yellow part of the livery.

That would be like this one:-

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikecubberley/8405700388/in/album-72157632582106059/

 

and

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikecubberley/8405700142/in/album-72157632582106059/

 

I believe the patch about on the centre line of the hopper is where the Intercity logo has been painted over?

 

Thanks

[Jim Martin]

That's the fella! Thanks a lot: that's something I've wondered about for a while.

 

Jim

[black and decker boy]

Here's the other blue vans, ADB955009 and DS56010

ADB955009_DS56010_OldOakCommon.jpg

is that a Pill Box? A limited edition future model if it is though ABs will be along to tell us it never carried NSE blue and it's lower left rivet is in the wrong place :-0

[John M Upton]

Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong but I could swear I once saw a Mk 2 BSK or BSO coach in Dutch civil engineers yellow and grey livery with small white InterCity fleet names?

[jeff mcghie]

You can still just about make out the NSE branding on the skako train although some of it is now in a badly applied coat of EWS maroon.