Kitson tank locomotives

[844fan]

Ok after my topic on "Lively Polly" revealed her origin as a Kitson loco I'm a bit curious on finding more of their tank locomotives to see how they went about their designs.

 

I'll post a find of my own in the morning but at the moment I'm on a mobile device and can't link properly.

 

Anyone know of any interesting Kitson tanks? I do know a little about the experimental Kitson-Stills   diesel/steam hybrid Locomotive but any information I could need on her is at hand or on the LNER Encyclopedia site so I won't bother with her here.

 

Also I do hope I'm not becoming a nuisance with so many posts lately. I just have a wide variety of topics I want to know more on.

 

[sir douglas]

all i know is just from the appearance is that lively polly was directly based on their tram locos.

 

some of the Kitson photos that ive been collecting for a few years.

 

similar to lively polly, south australian railways

 

Brampton railway http://www.cumbria-railways.co.uk/brampton_railway.html

 

Hull & Barnsley railway

 

 

and one of my favourite areas, the Kitson-meyers

 

Tal Tal railway

Edited August 27, 2017 by sir douglas

[awoodford]

I believe the Corringham Light Railway had an 0-4-0 Kitson similar to the LOR one. Searches in that area might glean some useful information.

Alan.

[Raised On Steam]

The Stephenson Railway Museum in North Tyneside has a 19th C Kitson built pannier tank engine based on a Stephenson design. It used to work Consett Iron Works then the NCB used it at Derwenthaugh coke works up til the 1970's. I think it's currently in steam, it was very recently.

Edited May 1, 2015 by Raised On Steam

[Raised On Steam]

Not forgetting the two burly ex Lambton 0-6-2's at the North york Moors line.

[EddieB]

How far do you want to cast your net?

 

"KITTY" was built as a fairly conventional 4-6-0T locomotive, but has had an unconventional history.  Built in 1879, she was one of thirty-nine such locomotives for the Natal Government Railways (the total includes locos built by Kitsons - NGR K class and Robert Stephenson & Co - NGR S class).  The locomotives became South African Railways C class.  While some of the locomotives remained in SAR ownership until 1940, this locomotive was sold into industrial service and remained working for ESCOM before being declared a national monument in 1983 - having notched up 105 years of continuous service!

 

The locomotive was donated to "preservation" (you'll see why I put that in inverted commas) and placed in the SANRASM museum collection at Millsite (Krugersdorp), supposedly being kept in working order.  As you can see, it wasn't best placed for photography when seen in store at the museum in 1995.  My visit came before the locomotives collected by the museum suffered the depredations of metal thieves, armed and on an almost industrial scale, with little attempt made to prevent the destruction of many unique locomotives.  (Some better pictures at Krugersdorp can be seen on the link below).

 

http://steam-locomotives-south-africa.blogspot.co.uk/2009/07/blogentry-2009-07-12-05.html

 

Happily "KITTY" largely survived the general onslaught and in 2010 was removed and returned to ESCOM in Rosherville.  I don't believe the locomotive is currently on public display.

 

[844fan]

all i know is just from the appearance is that lively polly was directly based on their tram locos.

 

some of the Kitson photos that ive been collecting for a few years.

 

similar to lively polly, south african railways

kitson SAR (2).jpg

 

Brampton railway http://www.cumbria-railways.co.uk/brampton_railway.html

brampton railway kitson dandie_dinmont_brampton2.jpg

 

Hull & Barnsley railway

kitson 1886 HBR.JPG

 

 

and one of my favourite areas, the Kitson-meyers

 

Tal Tal railway

kitson meyer (3).jpg

 

Whoa I definitely see the family resemblance. The body build is nearly a perfect match to Polly's.

 

Seems I'm right on the money wanting to use Polly as a Dock Yard shunter. So many of these locos were built to do that kind of work.

 

I think I recognize that Articulated engine. I believe my library had a book of photos that showed her. Looks very powerful.  

 

The Stephenson Railway Museum in North Tyneside has a 19th C Kitson built pannier tank engine based on a Stephenson design. It used to work Consett Iron Works then the NCB used it at Derwenthaugh coke works up til the 1970's. I think it's currently in steam, it was very recently.

 

Huh another wild Pannier Tank. That I'll have to check into.

 

How far do you want to cast your net?

 

"KITTY" was built as a fairly conventional 4-6-0T locomotive, but has had an unconventional history.  Built in 1879, she was one of thirty-nine such locomotives for the Natal Government Railways (the total includes locos built by Kitsons - NGR K class and Robert Stephenson & Co - NGR S class).  The locomotives became South African Railways C class.  While some of the locomotives remained in SAR ownership until 1940, this locomotive was sold into industrial service and remained working for ESCOM before being declared a national monument in 1983 - having notched up 105 years of continuous service!

 

The locomotive was donated to "preservation" (you'll see why I put that in inverted commas) and placed in the SANRASM museum collection at Millsite (Krugersdorp), supposedly being kept in working order.  As you can see, it wasn't best placed for photography when seen in store at the museum in 1995.  My visit came before the locomotives collected by the museum suffered the depredations of metal thieves, armed and on an almost industrial scale, with little attempt made to prevent the destruction of many unique locomotives.  (Some better pictures at Krugersdorp can be seen on the link below).

 

http://steam-locomotives-south-africa.blogspot.co.uk/2009/07/blogentry-2009-07-12-05.html

 

Happily "KITTY" largely survived the general onslaught and in 2010 was removed and returned to ESCOM in Rosherville.  I don't believe the locomotive is currently on public display.

 

pict6438.jpg

As far as your willing to go my friend. Though I want to have a lot of info on the more native engines. Or at least Standard Gauge.

 

Good to see Kitty lives on. She is a cute loco and darn those scavengers. If I remember right the UP Big Boy they are restoring was missing a ton of parts.

[John_Miles]

Weren't the Leek and Manifold engines built by Kitson?

[844fan]

 

I believe the Corringham Light Railway had an 0-4-0 Kitson similar to the LOR one. Searches in that area might glean some useful information.

Alan.

 

I do believe that is a sister locomotive indeed. Based off what I've seen of Polly the only main deference I see are Screw link couplings with a hook and normal buffers as opposed to Bracket like Dumb buffers.

[jamie92208]

I'm not certain but I think that Kitsons also built the massive 4-6-4 Baltic tanks for the Furness Railway.   Just as a matter of interest I used to work as a policeman in the area where the Kitson (and many other builders) works were.  The connection out of the Kitson works was over a large turntable but it wasn't big enough for the Baltics and I believe that they had to be taken out of the works without their front and rear bogies, turned put onto the main line connection, then the bogies were re attached.

 

Jamie

[Flying Pig]

Not forgetting the two burly ex Lambton 0-6-2's at the North york Moors line.

No. 29 is indeed a Kitson engine, but no. 5 was built by Robert Stephenson & Co.

 

The Consett engine is interesting as a late example of the Stephenson "long boiler" layout.

[asmay2002]

http://www.didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/locos/1338/1338.html

[EddieB]

I'm not certain but I think that Kitsons also built the massive 4-6-4 Baltic tanks for the Furness Railway.  

Yes, FR nos 115-119 were built by Kitsons in 1920.

[844fan]

Yes, FR nos 115-119 were built by Kitsons in 1920.

They must have been massive for them to need to turn them by taking off the bogies.

 

These are some very unrepresented engines. Especially the Trams and their conversions like "Lively Polly".

[Andy Kirkham]

 

I believe the Corringham Light Railway had an 0-4-0 Kitson similar to the LOR one. Searches in that area might glean some useful information.

Alan.

 

According to that ever-fascinating book Mainline to Industry by Frank Jones, there were three locos of the Lively Polly type. They were all supplied to the West Lancashire Railway but found unsuitable and returned to their maker.  The fate of the third one is obscure; it is recorded as having been sold to "R White". Works numbers were 109/110/111 but it is not known which locos carried which numbers.

[844fan]

According to that ever-fascinating book Mainline to Industry by Frank Jones, there were three locos of the Lively Polly type. They were all supplied to the West Lancashire Railway but found unsuitable and returned to their maker.  The fate of the third one is obscure; it is recorded as having been sold to "R White". Works numbers were 109/110/111 but it is not known which locos carried which numbers.

Just found MtI for sale over on a site called Black Dwarf Lightmoor Going to try to get a copy. I may need help of one of my friends who lives in the UK to get it.

 

So she had two sisters. Shame none of them made it to today.

[cheesysmith]

Don't forget the 0-6-4 tanks they supplied that became the LNER m1 loco's. Plans appeared in a old issue of RM.

[micknich2003]

 

 Here is a photo of the LD&ECRly 0-6-2T, that railway couldn't afford them, so the H&B bought them at a "Knocked Down" price. They are a slightly scaled down version of the 0-6-4T's mentioned above. The LD&ECRly also had Kitson 0-4-4T's and similar in appearance.

[Andy Kirkham]

Kitsons' finest achievement must be this monster http://www.panoramio.com/photo/75324073a rack-and-adhesion loco built in 1907 for the Chilean and Argentine Trans-Andean railway.

 

IT is a source of particular patriotic pride that Dr Roman Abt, the international expert on rack railways had declared it impossible to design a locomotive to the required specifications.

[844fan]

Kitsons' finest achievement must be this monster http://www.panoramio.com/photo/75324073a rack-and-adhesion loco built in 1907 for the Chilean and Argentine Trans-Andean railway.

 

IT is a source of particular patriotic pride that Dr Roman Abt, the international expert on rack railways had declared it impossible to design a locomotive to the required specifications.

My my that is a beast there. Heh never say it's impossible with a Steam locomotive.

[sir douglas]

somewhere ive once seen a photo of the furness baltic on the Kitson turntable

 

there were some 0-6-0 and 2-6-0 tanks for San Domingos. it was a few years ago and cant now find the website the photos came from

[844fan]

Wow look at that sanding dome. Kitson made some quite interesting designs.

[uax6]

The photo you're thinking of was in the Railway Modeller, in the letters section in the late 70's I think. Lead to a couple of other letters in the next issue.

 

Andy G

[EddieB]

I think the 2-6-0T for Sao Domingos was a one-off ("JOSE DANINO"), but Kitsons also built two 0-6-0Ts (as pictured) and two 0-4-0STs for the same firm (Mason & Barry). 

 

In all 34 locomotives (all tank engines) were supplied new by British builders (including two more 2-6-0Ts from Manning Wardle - with more conventional boiler top layouts), plus one acquired second-hand from Rio Tinto.  All were named.

[awoodford]

The topic here has just brought something to mind. A scale drawing of the little Lively Polly type loco was published in a model railway magazine, probably around the late 90's - early 2000's. I think it might have been in Model Railway Enthusiast or Model Rail, but I can't be certain. It definately wasn't RM or MRJ, and I don't think it was BRM, but it could have been one of the other lesser magazines of the time. I remember buying the magazine specifically for the drawing - I thought I might be able to adapt a Tenshodo SPUD to power it in 4mm - change wheels and add cosmetic coupling rods etc. That idea was scuppered when I accidently threw out the magazine with a load of old ones during a clearout. I've just been doing a web search, trying to track it down, but without success so far.

 

Any one else remember that article?

Alan.