RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted July 30, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted July 30, 2015 Interesting news from the Philae Lander, it looks like some more information than expected from the Lander. Well spotted, sir. However, the data comes from a while back - the lander is currently in intermittent/zero contact with the orbiter. Still very interesting, though! Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted July 30, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted July 30, 2015 A while back, somebody, I think it was Jock, was asking about the wisdom of observing the Full Moon. Here's a pic from 2 hours ago which demonstrates very nicely how boring the Full Moon is when there's no shadow to provide contrast (hence lack of detail). Maybe it'll help Bill if he's still looking for the Man in the Moon? Jeff 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythocentric Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 (edited) A while back, somebody, I think it was Jock, was asking about the wisdom of observing the Full Moon. Here's a pic from 2 hours ago which demonstrates very nicely how boring the Full Moon is when there's no shadow to provide contrast (hence lack of detail). Maybe it'll help Bill if he's still looking for the Man in the Moon? IMG_0499_505stitch PSP mod shp1 RMW.jpg Jeff Nah! I gave up on that after I found out the Chinese have a dragon in the moon at which point it all got a bit confusing! I bet Andrews disappointed about the lack of mice though. Mind you one or two of those little craters around the edge do look suspiciously like holes! Cracking photo though and it does show how accurate my NASA 3D model is. On the subject of books, that NASA volume was actually quite interesting overall given my love of 'heavy metal' (in the sense of military aircraft!). What got me were the two chapters on computer modelling of fluid dynamics, etc apparently written by a computer geek with the intention of setting a world record for the greatest number of acronyms in one essay! What it actually did was set a world altitude record for going right over Bill's head! . Anyway! It was interesting enough to get me started on volume 2 which begins with a discussion on turbulence in the boundary layer of supercritical airfoils.................ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. Hummm! One thing I did learn though is that a surprising number of modern aircraft, military AND commercial, are so inherently unstable that they would be very difficult to fly without the use of computer-controlled fly-by-wire systems. I'm not naming any names but the next time you go on holiday and fly by any of the Airbus series, take a good look at the weather before you board! I'll definitely have a look for those Patrick Moore biographies at the weekend! Meanwhile, on the silly side of life, our pals the Alien CT brigade have discovered (Surprise! Surprise!) a series of mysterious pipelines and obvious artificial domes on........PLUTO! YEAH! Regards Bill Edited July 31, 2015 by Mythocentric 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock67B Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Morning all, Jeff, although lacking in surface detail, that image is fascinating in that it does show the incredible variety of different surfaces that cover the moon. I understand that, as the second full one in July, it's known as a 'blue moon' but is there any record, in your experience, of it ever appearing in that colour? Perhaps due to viewing through an atmosphere polluted by an erupting volcano for example? Hope the sky is as clear tonight as it was last night as it looked truly beautiful. I learnt of a new (to me) piece of superstition from Joanna last night - apparently it is unlucky to view the full moon through glass! This is, as I pointed out to her, bad news for us who are interested in astronomy as we regularly view it through lenses which are made from that material. The BBC News24 bulletin this morning seemed to suggest that there is some hope for more information from the Philae Lander, but I wondered if they had picked up on the older data you mentioned above? It's not hard to confuse me at the moment!! Bill, you'll have to give up on that book and get back to playing with your new toy. Like Jeff, I'm convinced you will enjoy the books on one of my heroes, Patrick Moore, and be prepared to be surprised by some of his exploits (I won't spoil it!). Kind regards, Jock. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgman Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 A while back, somebody, I think it was Jock, was asking about the wisdom of observing the Full Moon. Here's a pic from 2 hours ago which demonstrates very nicely how boring the Full Moon is when there's no shadow to provide contrast (hence lack of detail). Maybe it'll help Bill if he's still looking for the Man in the Moon? IMG_0499_505stitch PSP mod shp1 RMW.jpg Jeff That's all very well, but from where I was standing in Devon I spotted these two.......... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted July 31, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted July 31, 2015 That's all very well, but from where I was standing in Devon I spotted these two.......... image.jpg Don't let the Conspiracy Theorists see this! It's ALL the "proof" they need to convince us that the Moon is made of cheese and is inhabited by mice AND MEN (and Gromits)!! Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgman Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Don't let the Conspiracy Theorists see this! It's ALL the "proof" they need to convince us that the Moon is made of cheese and is inhabited by mice AND MEN (and Gromits)!! Jeff Here's all the evidence you'll need....it's true ! ( Godrell Bank picked it out when we weren't looking !) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted July 31, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted July 31, 2015 Jock, good to hear from you! Pleased to hear you've been reading the Patrick Moore bios. They are excellent - detailed and "warts and all". I've known of Martin Mobberley for over 30 years - he's a Premier League astrophotographer (I'm merely League 2) and his research for the book is staggering. As for the Full Moon.... I've seen it with a red tint, due to atmospheric conditions. I also have a "memory" of a "blue" moon when I was 6 - as viewed from my nana's garden. But I think my mind invented that one, so I'd discount it. As you said, the "blue" aspect simply refers to the second Full Moon occurring in a single month. The Moon was nearly 10% larger than normal last night as it was closer than average. Not quite a "super moon" but very dramatic - especially so for lurking so low in the southern sky (in Sagittarius/Capricorn). Jeff 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted July 31, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 31, 2015 Jock the superstition handed down to me was 'It is bad luck to first see the NEW moon through glass' once seen with the naked eye it was okay. God knows who dreams these things up. The new moon is rather elusive although it is there in the day its closeness to the sun hides it until the short period after sundown before it dips below the horizon. Johanna's version would cause a major headache as you couldn't drive on the night of the full moon and is quite often visible at Dawn. Don 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Gromit will be ok for Cheese Sarnies on the moon, they do grow it there you know. Oh dear, just re read that. The DRUGS must be wearing off. NURSE NURSE NURSE, WHERE ARE YOU WHEN I NEED YOU? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PeterBB Posted July 31, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 31, 2015 I do put a tie onto the steps. It is quite hairy waving a 8ft pole hedge trimmer around standing on the top step. Don Don, Know this problem and of course the cutters are 'heavy when at arms length and pulling the cutting line. We do have one of us supporting the ladder but would rather not have to do it. Good luck for safe completion. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Anotheran Posted July 31, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 31, 2015 I understand that, as the second full one in July, it's known as a 'blue moon' Hi Jock, Good to see you posting again. I agree that the full moon, particularly low down and close as Jeff described, is very impressive to look at, if not so much so to photograph because of the lack of shadows. But I thought I'd pick up on your "blue moon" topic as it's a fun subject (or am I just really sad?) Traditionally a "blue moon" was the third full moon in a season where there where four full moons rather than the normal three. From antiquity in Britain many of the full moons had names. These then moved to America and became part of folklore there. Here most are now forgotten, but you do still occasionally get a phrase like "harvest moon". In order for the last seasonal full moon to always have the correct name (as the last full moon in a season was a marker point) it would be the third in a four full moon season that would be seen as the additional one and be named blue. There's lots of ideas as to why it was called blue. The one I like best (but maybe not the most likely) is that it came from the archaic word "belewe" meaning betrayer as the betraying moon delayed the spring moon and meant that another month of fasting was needed to get to the Spring moon that marked the end of Lent! I know what my mates in the pub would think of that It was an American astronomy magazine article just after the war that misinterpreted the maths involved and stated a definition of blue moon as being the second new moon in a month. This definition has then been repeated in other articles, often quoting that magazine as a source (and pub quizzes!) ever since, so is now regularly used as the definition. They give very different results. The traditional blue moon will only occur seven times every 19 years (a Metonic Cycle), so every two to three years. But a second full moon in a calendar month is much more frequent averaging a bit less than one a year. Indeed, you can get two in one year if February doesn't have a full moon (a synodic month is about 29.5 days) then January and March will have two each! Personally I prefer the traditional definition as it makes something that happens "once in a blue moon" an even more unusual occurrence Kind regards, Neil 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythocentric Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 (edited) Morning all, Jeff, although lacking in surface detail, that image is fascinating in that it does show the incredible variety of different surfaces that cover the moon. I understand that, as the second full one in July, it's known as a 'blue moon' but is there any record, in your experience, of it ever appearing in that colour? Perhaps due to viewing through an atmosphere polluted by an erupting volcano for example? Hope the sky is as clear tonight as it was last night as it looked truly beautiful. I learnt of a new (to me) piece of superstition from Joanna last night - apparently it is unlucky to view the full moon through glass! This is, as I pointed out to her, bad news for us who are interested in astronomy as we regularly view it through lenses which are made from that material. The BBC News24 bulletin this morning seemed to suggest that there is some hope for more information from the Philae Lander, but I wondered if they had picked up on the older data you mentioned above? It's not hard to confuse me at the moment!! Bill, you'll have to give up on that book and get back to playing with your new toy. Like Jeff, I'm convinced you will enjoy the books on one of my heroes, Patrick Moore, and be prepared to be surprised by some of his exploits (I won't spoil it!). Kind regards, Jock. Hi Jock. The superstition dates back into antiquity and as Don said, it's considered bad luck to first see the new moon though glass. The reasoning behind it relates to the worship of the moon goddess and the fact that glass puts a barrier between you and the goddess (when she was at her most potent) which was considered unlucky. As the use of glass in windows became more common the superstition developed to allow for bad fortune to fall depending on which part of the window you looked through. For example, Seeing the moon through a lower pane meant that there would soon be a death in the family! One of my favourite (and most charming) moon superstitions comes from an African tradition which says that if you row out to the middle of a river on the full moon, you will see the moon in the water pulling faces at the moon in the sky! Regards Bill Edited July 31, 2015 by Mythocentric 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted July 31, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted July 31, 2015 Excellent post, Neil, very informative! Couldn't resist including last night's moon - blue or not - into a montage of the current lunation. 7 opportunities to image the waxing moon (out of 15) isn't really too bad, despite the fact that the damn thing is barely above the horizon when it's dark!! Btw, I AM working on the plans for the frames (first 4) for KL2, so I've NOT gone totally loony! Jeff 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Excellent post, Neil, very informative! Couldn't resist including last night's moon - blue or not - into a montage of the current lunation. 7 opportunities to image the waxing moon (out of 15) isn't really too bad, despite the fact that the damn thing is barely above the horizon when it's dark!! 7 moon montage 60 143 350 383 402 452 499 RMW.jpg Btw, I AM working on the plans for the frames (first 4) for KL2, so I've NOT gone totally loony! Jeff KL2? (mentioned in here again) OR Is that a new Lunar Module Robot that's replacing K9 (the doggy shaped one) or would that be a CATastrophe in the making. I hope no TREES will be harmed in the making of the said KL2 frames. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythocentric Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 KL2? (mentioned in here again) OR Is that a new Lunar Module Robot that's replacing K9 (the doggy shaped one) or would that be a CATastrophe in the making. I hope no TREES will be harmed in the making of the said KL2 frames. Why do you think Don's cutting that hedge down Andrew? Regards Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted July 31, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 31, 2015 Well that is the big hedge done Although I have not trimmed the top fully at one end as the people behind wanted it a bit higher as the sun reflects of our velux blinding them in their new extension. The rest of the hedges are babies (only 8-10ft compared to that) The steps are sparkies 12 tread ones. The weirdest view I ever saw f the moon was waking early one morning to find the moon was like a blood orange. The earth was between the sun and the moon. Don 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 I've been misinformed about the colour. I was expecting something like this...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock67B Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Evening all, Neil, many thanks for the erudite lesson on our moon, very interesting. I suppose discussions on the said planetary object are well placed in this repository of 'luna'cy! Just been out looking at the moon and it definitely hasn't got a vestige of blue, it is however, easy to forget just how beautiful a sight it is on a clear night! DonW, do be careful when using such step ladders, a few years ago, one of my regular car customers (10 in a twenty year relationship) had the misfortune to fall off a much shorter set whilst pruning an apple tree. Although slightly older than me he was always very fit but sadly I hear he is now in a wheel chair and needs to be driven everywhere as a result of his fall. Beware, and take all precautions such as having someone else in attendance at all times! I notice that most posts relating to not viewing the moon through glass relate to the 'new' moon rather than the 'full' one - I'll avail Joanna of that knowledge when she wakes tomorrow! Kind regards, and G'night all, Jock. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythocentric Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 (edited) Evening all, Neil, many thanks for the erudite lesson on our moon, very interesting. I suppose discussions on the said planetary object are well placed in this repository of 'luna'cy! Just been out looking at the moon and it definitely hasn't got a vestige of blue, it is however, easy to forget just how beautiful a sight it is on a clear night! DonW, do be careful when using such step ladders, a few years ago, one of my regular car customers (10 in a twenty year relationship) had the misfortune to fall off a much shorter set whilst pruning an apple tree. Although slightly older than me he was always very fit but sadly I hear he is now in a wheel chair and needs to be driven everywhere as a result of his fall. Beware, and take all precautions such as having someone else in attendance at all times! I notice that most posts relating to not viewing the moon through glass relate to the 'new' moon rather than the 'full' one - I'll avail Joanna of that knowledge when she wakes tomorrow! Kind regards, and G'night all, Jock. I should imagine the difference is Jock, that at full moon we're all hiding under our beds in case the werewolves get us! Regards Bill Edited August 1, 2015 by Mythocentric 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock67B Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Morning all, Just noticed my diary entry about the 'Perseid' meteor shower which should have started to show, radiating from a point below the 'W' of 'Cassiopeia'. Problem is to see them with the light pollution from the moon, but this should begin to wane from the 7th August. The peak 'Perseid' activity should be around the 12th and 13th August and I will be up watching, weather permitting of course - it was very poor here last year! Jeff, I wonder if you will be able to capture some images with your remarkable 'space camera' set-up? As a matter of interest, there was an article in the D. Telegraph which supports Neil(Anotheran)'s post about the 'blue' in 'blue moon' being derived from the archaic 'belewe'! This really is an educational thread at times (thanks once again must go to Jeff for starting it!) and clearly, you really are never too old to learn new facts. I for one find this exciting and the exercise for the brain is useful as old age approaches! Kind regards, Jock. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythocentric Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 (edited) Hi Jock! You don't actually need a set-up like Jeff's to photograph meteor showers because they are events occuring within the atmosphere! All you need is a camera, tripod and patience! There are a lot of articles and how to's about it on the net including this one http://www.skyandtelescope.com/astronomy-resources/astrophotography-tips/photograph-meteor-shower Have fun Bill Edited August 1, 2015 by Mythocentric Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted August 1, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted August 1, 2015 Well that is the big hedge done Although I have not trimmed the top fully at one end as the people behind wanted it a bit higher as the sun reflects of our velux blinding them in their new extension. The rest of the hedges are babies (only 8-10ft compared to that) The steps are sparkies 12 tread ones. The weirdest view I ever saw f the moon was waking early one morning to find the moon was like a blood orange. The earth was between the sun and the moon. Don Was the moon in eclipse, Don? Eclipsed moons can be strongly red-coloured because of the passage of some sunlight refracted onto the moon through the Earth's atmosphere. Good advice, Bill. Jock, I'll endeavour to take some long-exposure sky exposures to try and capture a few meteor trails - weather permitting. If you have a DSLR with a "B" setting do have a go yourself! Jeff 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythocentric Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 A bit more information for anyone interested in photographing the Perseid meteor shower. Best nights between midnight and dawn on the 12th, 13th and 14th August. Aim about 60 degrees altitude and around 60 degrees either side of the radiant (Cassiopeia). Basic camera set up, 50mm or wider lens, maximum (widest) aperture with focus at infinity. ISO minimum 800 - 1000 or greater (try to find the best balance between quality and 'grain' in the image!) 30 second exposures. Use large JPEG rather than RAW format which will give you a greater number of images and more chances of success. Because it's a new moon it's expected to be a good show this year. Above all be patient and don't expect good results in half-an-hour! Good hunting! Regards Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted August 2, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 2, 2015 Yes Jeff it was a total lunar eclipse but I hadn't been aware it was going to happen. The one this year wasn't visible in the UK and those for the next two years are not total eclipses but I think we get one in 2018 and 2019. I find the term Lunar eclipse misleading as the Moon is visible all the time it is just thrown into shadow by the earth. Don 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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