Possible bogie design fault on the class 66.

[Simon Moore]

I've been researching problams with a few of my class 66 fleet i have 7 some bought second hand & some bought new. The new ones have not been used yet on the track only test run on a straight piece of track. Anyway i have found that one of my class 66's had problams turning on one bogie so i stripped the body off & had a play with the chassis.

 

Upon opening up the chassis i found that the worm cover was a bit skew wiff. this part should sit properly on lugs either side of the bogie but no matter how much you try it will not fit its a real piece of flimpsy cheap plastic that if too much pressure is applied it will shatter.

I thought this could be a one off so i decided to strip off the other locos i have to find almost all of my 7 have the same fault which is a bit worrying. I did try to contact Bachmann this morning but no one works on a saturday.

 

I think its a worrying problam because in time i feel this part could be the flaw that makes a large percent of class 66 models go kaput. I was thinking of cutting the part in 2 pieces so the half which screws to the body & the bogie is in one piece & the worm cover another so i can re fabricate the cover out of brass & hopefully sort the problam out.

 

I think it is a bit of a sham though that cheap plastic is used on a model that costs quite a bit. Just wondered if anyone else had noticed this problam because if i have 7 locos which all have problams im sure you lot will too.

 

Simon.

[Superrams]

Simon,

 

Ive not had the problems you have experienced,but i had 3 Bachmann Class 66's i had to get rid of.

I still have 4,but the 3 in question didn't like going through the points, either through the straights, or the curves.I have no small points on my layout,as there are alot of loco's besides 66's that don't like those as they are too tight,so it wasn't the points. I found that the older Bachmann 66's, for example 66 135, didn't have pick up's on all wheels, therefore making them vulnerable traversing insulfrog points. Also,if you have attached the front bottom plate,this too sometimes interferes with the bogies movement when taking on curves. I had this problem with 66 411. Also brake pipes etc can foul when turning if not attached correctly. After all said and done though,i was forced to get rid on E Bay, which cheesed me off somewhat as one was a sound version, but just kept getting stuck through certain points and causing a short circuit which switched off the sound. Very annoying !

I have a DCC modern image layout,so 66 omission isn't quite right, but i cannot put up with loco's that won't run smoothly either through point work or any other area.

Just for the record,my listing of 66's is as follows:-

 

66 135, No good, hated traversing the pointwork

66 522, The same

66 022, The same

66 405, Still got this one but doesn't like SOME points

66 407, This one runs ok

66 411, The same

66 412, The same.

 

Everything else i have, ie, 37's,57's, 60's etc are excellent runners.

Hope this helps

 

John

[beast66606]

Simon,

 

I have well over 50 of these, we regularly run about 10 on Widnes, and these are rotated through a pool of about 25, and none of them have the problems you describe - how about doing a series of photos showing us the problem ?

[Simon Moore]

I've taken a few photos of the part in question & from my trails & tests it seems the bogie on the end with the big roof grill seems to be the end causing trouble. I shall upload a photo or 2 later on i've just woken up. With regard to the trouble of turning i think a washer will solve the problam i'm off to the local ironmongers tomorrow to find a suitable washer.

 

Simon.

[Chester 175]

Simon,

 

Ive not had the problems you have experienced,but i had 3 Bachmann Class 66's i had to get rid of.

I still have 4,but the 3 in question didn't like going through the points, either through the straights, or the curves.I have no small points on my layout,as there are alot of loco's besides 66's that don't like those as they are too tight,so it wasn't the points. I found that the older Bachmann 66's, for example 66 135, didn't have pick up's on all wheels, therefore making them vulnerable traversing insulfrog points. Also,if you have attached the front bottom plate,this too sometimes interferes with the bogies movement when taking on curves. I had this problem with 66 411. Also brake pipes etc can foul when turning if not attached correctly. After all said and done though,i was forced to get rid on E Bay, which cheesed me off somewhat as one was a sound version, but just kept getting stuck through certain points and causing a short circuit which switched off the sound. Very annoying !

I have a DCC modern image layout,so 66 omission isn't quite right, but i cannot put up with loco's that won't run smoothly either through point work or any other area.

Just for the record,my listing of 66's is as follows:-

 

66 135, No good, hated traversing the pointwork

66 522, The same

66 022, The same

66 405, Still got this one but doesn't like SOME points

66 407, This one runs ok

66 411, The same

66 412, The same.

 

Everything else i have, ie, 37's,57's, 60's etc are excellent runners.

Hope this helps

 

John

 

I purchased Bachmann 66152 in DB Schenker livery and it derailed so many times on my points that i took it back for a replacement. New one seems fine.

[mezzoman253]

Hello, I've got 2 lass 66 loco's, 66 135 & 66 068, bought off of eBay. All my points are Peco mediums code 100 old stock, electrofrog, switched. Plus a couple of double slips SL-90. 66 135 copes with everything ok, but 66 068 has trouble with a curved left hand on the tighter radius side. It's the only point to cause trouble, the front bogie rides up the frog and drops off the rails. I've a feeling on the old RMweb someone had a problem with the same point and added a strip of plasticard to the check rail. Of course it could be something else, back to backs, etc. But it's the only loco to do it. Other than that the 66's are good performers.

 

HTH

 

Rob

[richierich]

Could this maybe gauge issue with the wheelsets? Or the wheel is not square on the driveshaft?

[mezzoman253]

Hi, Quite possibly, but at the moment I'm concentrating on the layout itself, and will sort the loco out later. I was just commenting that the 66's I have run fine (with the one exception).

 

Thanks for your suggestion.

 

Best regards, Rob

[158722]

Agree with original comment. We have had odd issues which have been sorted by taking bogies/driveshafts etc apart and putting back together again. Suspect lack of play as bought. Also some issues were cured by taking a turn off the bogie top screw so bogies had more vertical front to back pitch available too. One local club had a nightmare when they built a new tailchaser with trick super-elevated curves and found that the Bachy 66 wouldn't run on them. We decided against doing it on Elliott Bridge for that very reason. The issue may have been the transition from flat to super elevated being too sudden and the lack of bogie front to back 'pitch' exacerbating this? We have about 50 or 60 Sheds Freds Dreds etc and none are misbehaving now!

[Dagworth]

Problems I've seen with Bachmann 66s (I am assuming we are talking 4mm not BachFarish?) have been caused by the centre axle not having any upward play. Running a small round file through the bearing slots in the bogie moulding after popping out the axle and bearings can help by allowing the centre axle freedom to lift a little. This helps considerably with road holding. I've had the same issue with Bachmann 47s.

 

Andi

[martin_l_jones]

I have a large quantity of these locos and also have experienced this problem on both new and second hand locos, mainly curved points, about four of five locos out of thirty plus.

 

Had tried all sorts to resolve it until someone on NRM said to check if the front of the NEM pocket fouls the front of the loco.

 

I found if you take about 1mm off the front face of the NEM pocket or angle the upper face back this should do the trick, if your loco is detailed then its not an issue with the NEM pocket being hidden.

 

Be careful not to damage anything if filing or sawing.....

[mezzoman253]

Hi Martin, This loco of mine does it in both directions, and is not detailed(at the mo') just as it comes in the box. I've a feeling it's the point, further investigation ongoing. When I find it I'll post the remedy.

 

Thanks for the input, Rob

[mezzoman253]

Just had a quick running session with the 66's. I've looked at the bogies and noticed the wheelset on the front of each bogie was slightly more to one side than the other on 66 068. This is the later model with all 3 axles with pick-up points. The older model 66 135 only has 2 pick-up points, these are on the middle and rear axles of the bogie. It looks as though the wiper tensions on the front axles are not even, and this may be skewing the axle to one side. Somewhere in my toolbox I have a little tool for tensioning wipers( ex-GPO engineer) and possibly some tension guages. It may just need a tweak on the wipers to correct it.

 

Does anyone know what the tension ought to be?

 

Rob

[martin_l_jones]

Hi Martin, This loco of mine does it in both directions, and is not detailed(at the mo') just as it comes in the box. I've a feeling it's the point, further investigation ongoing. When I find it I'll post the remedy.

 

Thanks for the input, Rob

 

The detailing doesn't affect the isue or performance, mine did it without the front skirt fitted, 66068 was the worst, nearly sent it back.

 

Turn the loco over and swing the bogies from side to side, tilt them up towards the body on the leading end and see if they are free.

 

If they are then as you say it may not be the issue, if it does catch then that is your problem.

[mezzoman253]

Ok Martin, thanks again.

 

Rob

[craigwelsh]

Does anyone know what the tension ought to be?

 

Rob

Just take the axle out and set the pickups to splay by an even amount both sides before re-installing the axle, it should self-centre then. You could always fit washers to take out that slop too as its only the middle axle on each bogie that really needs the movement.

[Rammy]

I seem to be experiencing a similar problem with 1 of my 3 Bachmann 66's.

Spent 2 hours in the loft last night trying out my new inclines and getting very frustrated. I then tried 2 different 66 locos and found they were all along. It was only the 1 loco that has a problem. The plastic clip on bogie appears to foul on the chassis when it turns. The wheel also seem to be catching on the chassis when turning (I know this as there are grooves appearing on the chassis).

Any ideas how to solve this or has anybody else seen the same problems?

[martin_l_jones]

If its the NEM coupling pocket fouling on the front of the loco when you swing it from side to side, see post #11, just up a bit..

[berwicksfinest]

Have got most of Bachmann releases and a few renumbered ones, All seem to suffer with one problem or another, basically the main problem seems to be the centre axle has no upwards play, on dismantling it this seems to be the main power transfer between the two outer axles have tried taking a minute amount off to aid play. Also a very good tip is to slightly loosen the bogie screw this frees up a little movement.

Also all NEM pockets are removed so they don't catch the front valance (still trying to get a wire loop to work)

 

Check the bogie steps don't catch chassis and AWS receiver doesn't catch the fuel tank.

 

As a good friend said to me unless your track is like glass their more trouble than the missus

 

I hope Vi trains next issue is a 66 cause these a pain in the derriere

[Diesel Dayz]

I had a persistant fault on 66612. The drive shaft at one end kept falling out. I'd replace it and it would fall out again and again. Cured it by turning the shaft round.

[Gwiwer]

I hope I'll not be accused of waking the dead but reading through this topic this has been an essential re-visit. 66068, 66135 and a renumbered Fred (which was new but as 66511) had all run well out of their boxes for a while but all soon displayed the "leading wheelset off" problem at specific locations around the layout. Since the problems showed up they have been sidelined for the most part. The problem occurs which ever way the locos are facing.

 

I had 511 apart to investigate squealing in the mechanism recently and, with that now sorted, have felt it is time to address the running of all three.

 

511 is the only one fitted with the full detail pack but all three have a pocket at the trailing end only. I found the pocket socket on the leading end of 511 was fouling the locating lugs on the user-fitted lower panel which were then carefully removed. I also took about 1.5mm off the coupler fitting. This has eliminated the fouling but not the problem. On a dead-level workbench all three locos have all 12 wheel rims in contact with the bench but I cannot determine precisely how close the treads are. All bogies rotate freely though the clearances are miniscule. There is evidence to show that the moulded detail which is only on one corner of one bogie (adjacent to the ?battery box) is rubbing lightly on the underframe since the weathering applied to 511 has been rubbed away in an arc here.

 

Having conducted extensive tests today all three locos seem to lift the leading wheelset at the same spots every time. This is always when a right-hand curve is entered from straight track or where the curve radius tightens. Most of my curves are very easy and none tighter than a fourth-radius equivalent. All are laid in Peco Code 100 Streamline with insulfrog points. No other locos are similarly affected. The spirit level has confirmed that the track itself is correctly laid and there are no sudden changes of gradient which might cause a wheel tread to rise above the railhead.

 

I therefore propose to use the advice given above and over the coming weeks to adjust the tension on the bogie locating screws and to ease the centre axle housings. I shall report back in due course.

[Rammy]

I look forward to your findings as 2 of my 66s have been sidelined with this problem, which seems such a waste.

 

Dave

[Bill]

I have somehow manged to acquire 6 sheds (66952 Freightliner, 66407 x2 DRS, 66412 - DRS & Malcolm, 66152 DB (not bad for someone running a layout exclusively dedicated to 1950's SR). Sofar they so all seem to be running fine with no noticeable problems through some very complex pointwork and reverse curve. However having read this article I may have missed something and will do some extra tests over curved points and see what happens.

 

Also, one of the 66407's arrived dead out of the box - It was returned to the model shop from whence it came - the problem, whatever it was - I never did fully find out - was fixed by Bachmann and is now running exceptionally well. Perhaps some of these wayward model 66's need returning to said manufacturer?

[Gwiwer]

Perhaps some of these wayward model 66's need returning to said manufacturer?

I accept the logic behind this thought. In my case that is a little unrealistic. Firstly because all of my 66's ran well initially and would not have been "as new" but in used condition if returned. Second because of the distance and costs involved I am reluctant to mail returns and prefer to make minor repairs myself when possible. Finally the return should be to the retailer unless the item was purchased direct from Bachmann themselves.

 

I have some time pencilled in on the weekend for rectification works.

[beast66606]

I have lots of 66s and have no trouble with any of them