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There is a story about some early North Staffs modellers who found someone who had worked as a wagon painter in Stoke Works. So they showed him a collection of variously painted wagons and asked which was the most accurate. His answer was "All of them"

Dave, you say the NSR van is a bit late late for you because it was built in 1911. The NSR buit similar vans in 1896 which were 9'6" wb as opposed to 10' of the later build. I would imagine that not many people would know the difference. I built the early version in S7 a few years ago.

For anyone interested in seeing how the Ontario layout in the Pilentum video linked into the blog post was built, there's a thread here on a Benelux modelling Forum (in Dutch). Build photos reveal how the layout goes together, as @AndyB highlights. Very informative. I have no connection with the builder, or with Beneluxspoor.net - everything I've linked to is in the public domain, Keith.

Thanks Andy, some good pointers as always. I think the picture in my blog post of the abbreviated mainline DB train illustrates your point about train length very well. Fortunately I also have a couple of railcars: Epoche I: and Epoche III / IV: As for goods or freight trains, this is only 20" long in OO and could be used to generate ideas too: I do need to give some further thought to your observation about cassettes - thank you for flagging this up. If I want something simple to enjoy at my leisure, I won't want to end up 'driving fiddle yards'. Good point, Keith.

Keith, everyone of us is an artist, for an artist takes something and makes something that means something. I sincerely hope the books help, the first is more practical the second hopefully more thought provoking. The third, in hand, something else again. Best of luck, and enjoy the journey.

Taken a while to get here with this one as I decided to go full function lighting which meant a complete rewire of the chassis and the body. This has day, night, tails on both ends which can be also switched on and off on end at a time. I also added an EOT lamp. Ready for decals and bogie paint:

Not research - no primary sources involved. Simply librarianship.

I must admit I take debates about the accuracy of wagon liveries with a pinch of salt. As Bill points out it could well vary from new and certainly did with age and repainting. Thanks for the research Compound. Seems it is a modelling choice with no absolutely correct answer.

A most salutary answer!

G.F. Chadwick, North Staffordshire Wagons (Wild Swan, 1995) has but one short paragraph on livery: "The North Stafford goods livery seems yo have been more or less constant throughout the company's history, and like that of several other concerns, was based upon red oxide. However, descriptions of the exact shade used vary from dark red-brown (like the Caledonian and Highland Railways) to purplish red oxide; solebars, headstocks, and corner plates were usually black. Lettering (6 inch to 1912, 14 inch thereafter) was white, originally shaded black; the knot was also white, but had some variation in size and shape." Most photos in the book show wagons in service, where the gloss has dimmed and it is impossible to detect any differences in colour. However, there are a couple of photos of 3-plank wagons and one of a covered goods, all shinely fresh out of the paint-shop, that do look to support black solebars and headstocks, along with black ironwork generally, not only corner plates. Sorry to have taken so long to get round to looking that up!

Some interesting reflections, Keith. I like your comparative shots with the same baseboard but different stations and trains, quite thought provoking. As you say, it really highlights how different things can appear. Visually the "Schönberg" and "Kirchbach" versions are pleasing and would make lovely layouts, but if you're looking for a challenge I think it would be quite novel to see if your large grain structures etc could be incorporated in a small space.

Noting that you "have been building stock appropriate for the Forest of Dean in the early '20s.", I am interest to see that the use of larger wagons persisted in the area from much earlier Broad Gauge (BG) Days. In my own blog, I have written about BG wagons built for carrying both coal and pig iron down through the Haie Tunnel to the dock at Bullo Pill. Ian Pope et al quote an incident from 1863, when a train of 70 wagons broke free and led to a ‘pile up’, said to be 15 wagons high, which took 5 days to clear! After that, trains were limited to 45 trucks, although these were reported to be ‘12 tonners’. In 1869, about 1,500 tons passed down the branch daily. I expect matters were managed differently by the 1920s 🙂

Thanks Mark, re-reading my old stuff reminds me that you suggested I try building a photo plank back then - looks like it could still happen, Keith:

Hi Keith. First and foremost I hope all goes well with you and your's. Must be a busy time preparing for the move and it's good you're finding a bit of time to imagine what model-railway opportunities may present themselves in your new home. I like very much the slice of Ontario video. The builder had obviously thought about camera angles and settled on 3 or 4 places to capture the action. FWIW I think the space you might have would lend itself well to a section of line running through countryside, perhaps with an overgrown siding serving something like a rustic saw mill. There'd be possibilities for all sorts of cameos. If you do manage to get a cassette each end it would mean having to do a lot of cassette switching each time a train runs through the scene. I'd council against this and maybe stick to a fiddle stick at just one end. Also remember the rule of thirds; a cruel mistress when space is limited. But one loco and a couple of wagons is going look a lot more realistic than a 5 coach express train. On my own layout I'm thinking carefully about viewing points and angles then dividing those spaces into thirds and placing objects of interest at the intersection lines. This might help you map out your available space to create a visually appealing scene, too? All the best. Andy

Hi Keith, Well done for persevering over the past few years with your ideas and above all keeping your dreams alive and I’m glad that my thread has kept you entertained along the way. The very best of luck with your upcoming house move and hopefully once settled in, the creative thinking processes will kick in, swiftly followed by some modelling magnificence. Best regards, Mark

Small has a number of advantages when you are plagued by the usual problems of space, time, funds, deciding on a prototype/layout style/theme. You can build and get to a 'sufficiently complete' stage to scratch that particular itch fairly quickly and if you decide it isn't what you want - or you have taken it as far as you want to go - you can move on to something else. I look forward to seeing what develops.

Not sure Wally Dugs would normally warrant a covered waggon. But - a goods yard in Stoke.... "It's routed through Partick, sir." "Get it off that wagon and into a van." Alan

The obvious load is porcelain, although I suspect that would usually have been crated and sheeted in an open. However, some high quality stuff for fitting out the first class dining rooms on a liner could well warrant a van. Nicely built as usual. Alan

Yes I could very easily be led astray! Happy to help!😀 I rather fancy the idea of a posh family arriving at Sherton with their entourage in the family saloon, accompanied by a horse box and carriage truck. I’m sure the family would want to visit Farthing while they are in the area🙂

Absolutely worth the wait - superbly-finished vehicles. I believe it was the case that a four wheeler gave a better ride than a six-wheeler. I think the earlier use of three axles and later conversion to two had chiefly to do with journal, bearing, and lubrication technology. In the 1870s and 80s, the weight of these carriages was too much for four of the bearings of the time, but by the 90s, larger journals were being used with better designs of oil axlebox. Compare Churchward's 70-footers with four-wheel bogies, built at a time when other companies were putting carriages a few feet shorter (but possibly heavier) on six-wheel bogies. Back in the late 1870s, when Clayton was first building bogie carriages on the Midland, a decision was made that in future, all new carriages would be either bogie or four-wheeled but that didn't last long. A large number of 28 ft and 29 ft carriages built in the first few years after Clayton's appointment as four-wheelers were converted to six-wheelers in the early 1880s. Apologies for introducing the Midland but it's not so far OT - it seems to me that Clayton must have initiated the style of panelling used on these Great Western carriages shortly before he left Swindon for Derby, where he introduced essentially the same style. So one suspects other details of construction were related, too.

Thanks Duncan🙂 You’re quite right the River class was always the plan to pull this rake of coaches, it’s next on this list unless I get distracted by a rather lovely LB&SCR family saloon that’s in the kit stash! BW Dave