Sand Drags

[28XX]

Can anybody tell me if there were any standards applicable to sand drags, regarding length and size of the wooden boxes retaining the sand? Should there always be a buffer stop at the end as a last resort?

 

Place and Period to be depicted:- post WW2 (G)WR.

[jcm@gwr]

I can't answer the questions, but they do have a sand drag at Didcot,

and it doesn't stop at buffers(!), it protects some crossing gates.

Maybe a pm to Castle might get you some answers.

[standardblue]

I know there are standards nowadays, but I don't know what they are!

 

Sorry I can't be more helpful, but hope that sets you in the right direction.

 

Cheers,

Mark

[The Stationmaster]

Can anybody tell me if there were any standards applicable to sand drags, regarding length and size of the wooden boxes retaining the sand? Should there always be a buffer stop at the end as a last resort?

 

Place and Period to be depicted:- post WW2 (G)WR.

Sand drags don't seem to have been very common in advance of trap points on the Western  (however there were some spectacularly long ones associated with catch points on steep gradients).  Stop blocks (buffer stops) seemed to vary according to circumstance - thus there might well be one if an errant move was likely to finish up on, say, a public road or down a bank/retaining wall but not necessarily otherwise.  incidentally stop blocks (other than those right up against a wall) seem to have normally worked by decelerating errant moves rather than directly stopping them because usually the fishplates would break, the stop block would then begin to move but be retarded by the ground around it thus working like a powerful retarder more than anything else.  In my experience short sand drags were useless at stopping anything as big as a loco although they might have slowed it down a bit (to do any good I get the impression that the GWR preferred sand drags to be well over 100 yards long!).

 

Best tip is to try to find photos of the sort of location you are modelling and see what was there in reality.

[Rivercider]

Sand drags don't seem to have been very common in advance of trap points on the Western  (however there were some spectacularly long ones associated with catch points on steep gradients).  

I can remember the sand drags on Filton Bank in Bristol were pretty long.

They were interlaced (is that the right term?) with the running lines so of course could not end in a stop block.

The Filton Bank sand drags were filled with pea gravel, which my first railway boss told me was the only railway use he knew for pea gravel.

 

cheers

[The Stationmaster]

I can remember the sand drags on Filton Bank in Bristol were pretty long.

They were interlaced (is that the right term?) with the running lines so of course could not end in a stop block.

The Filton Bank sand drags were filled with pea gravel, which my first railway boss told me was the only railway use he knew for pea gravel.

 

cheers

Another, even longer, one was at the foot of the incline at Abercynon.

[Rivercider]

Another, even longer, one was at the foot of the incline at Abercynon.

Yes, I had forgotten that 

 

seen here in April 1983 to the right of the platform

37229 heads up to Abercwmboi with empty HTVs, 14/4/83

 

cheers

[Mallard60022]

Here's the one at Didcot 

Web thingy was my friend...

P

[28XX]

Thanks for all your replies.  The application is for a goods loop trailing into a main line in the downhill direction at 1in100.  The trap points before this connection lead to stop blocks up against an embankment carrying a road, which then crosses the main lines on a bridge.

[The Stationmaster]

Thanks for all your replies.  The application is for a goods loop trailing into a main line in the downhill direction at 1in100.  The trap points before this connection lead to stop blocks up against an embankment carrying a road, which then crosses the main lines on a bridge.

Ooh, I remember a runaway in South Wales at a very similar location but without stop blocks but it had what was described as an 'ashpile' that ended against an embankment, which was topped by a railway (the SWML as it happens).  The 'ashpile' clearly had no effect whatsoever but the embankment was extremely effect at stopping the runaway (actually it was a train which had not had enough brakes pinned down) and the resultant 'heap' was interesting with the leading brakevan completely demolished and barely a foot high underneath at least 4 x 16 ton mineral wagons which together added about another 12 feet or so on top of the brakevan, the Class 37 took considerable extracting from the embankment.

[Fat Controller]

Ooh, I remember a runaway in South Wales at a very similar location but without stop blocks but it had what was described as an 'ashpile' that ended against an embankment, which was topped by a railway (the SWML as it happens).  The 'ashpile' clearly had no effect whatsoever but the embankment was extremely effect at stopping the runaway (actually it was a train which had not had enough brakes pinned down) and the resultant 'heap' was interesting with the leading brakevan completely demolished and barely a foot high underneath at least 4 x 16 ton mineral wagons which together added about another 12 feet or so on top of the brakevan, the Class 37 took considerable extracting from the embankment.

I'm trying to work out where this might be, Mike. The only locations I can think of where lines passed under the SWML were on the line from Tondu to Pyle Jct via Cefn Jct, and where the N&B went under the SWML west of Neath Station.

I did see the aftermath of a 37 that had run into the sand drag at Old Castle Junction after a somewhat rapid descent of the L&MMR; one of several such runaways that I witnessed on that line at various points in their journey.

[The Stationmaster]

I'm trying to work out where this might be, Mike. The only locations I can think of where lines passed under the SWML were on the line from Tondu to Pyle Jct via Cefn Jct, and where the N&B went under the SWML west of Neath Station.

I did see the aftermath of a 37 that had run into the sand drag at Old Castle Junction after a somewhat rapid descent of the L&MMR; one of several such runaways that I witnessed on that line at various points in their journey.

N&B Jcn Brian  c.1972(ish)  And even in the 1970s runaways were far from uncommon occurrences on the Valleys (various) although the worst offenders were MGR trains.

[Grovenor]

For the most part I think sand drags were more likely to be used on a running loop used by passengers rather than a goods loop.

They would only be expected to stop a low speed overrun, not a runaway.

Regards

[28XX]

The prime mover behind any potential runaways in my fictional location is 300 yards of 1:100, so bearing in mind the above and further web searching, I think I'll just have the stop block and leave it at that. Excavated some interesting nuggets tho....

[JDW]

I do wonder, especially looking at that pic from Didcot, how effective such a small amount of sand might be against even something light like a single empty wagon?

[Southernman46]

I've seen a few yards of "Sandite" stop a Networker dead in its tracks - admittedly that was through electrical failure due to being totally disconnected from traction return by said goo.........

[JDW]

I've seen a few yards of "Sandite" stop a Networker dead in its tracks - admittedly that was through electrical failure due to being totally disconnected from traction return by said goo.........

 

So quite literally, "dead" in its tracks :-D