Jesse Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Hi all, I've been fascinated by this old thread about single coach trains in the 1980. Mainly the reference to a Class 25 pulling a single BCK (Mk1)- having both first and standard class as well as a bagage compartment in a one-car train, that's brilliant! Unfortunately the link to a photo showing such a train doesn't appear to be working any more. I would love to see that photo - anyone who can help me? Of course other photographic evidence of similar one-coach services would be more than welcome. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Posted November 16, 2015 Author Share Posted November 16, 2015 Hi, in the meanwhile I've found a picture of a Class 27 hauling a single coach train on a Perth-Dundee service in the 80s here. (scroll a little bit down) Can anyone identify the coach? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Hi, in the meanwhile I've found a picture of a Class 27 hauling a single coach train on a Perth-Dundee service in the 80s here. (scroll a little bit down) Can anyone identify the coach? Looks like a Mk1 BSO or BCK (5 big windows, versus 4 on a BSK). I think it's a BSO. As for the 25+BCK photo in the archive thread, the defunct fotopic link suggests it was by a Donald Stirling, possibly the same person who now has a smugmug site at http://www.donaldstirling.me.uk/browse However, it isn't in his Scottish Blue section at http://www.donaldstirling.me.uk/ScottishRailways/Scottish-Rail-Blue-Locos/ Maybe worth trying to get in touch and persuade him to reload it?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 I've posted this elsewhere before, and it's two coaches, not one, but it is in London on a rush-hour service in 1981/2, and the loco's only got 600-odd hp at this point! (The Clapham Junction/Kensington Olympia "Kenny Belle") Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Andy W Posted November 16, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 16, 2015 In the thread on the old Rmweb posters referred to a solitary BG being used on a passenger working out of Huddersfield. At the time that the heritage DMUs were on their last legs on North Manchester services, and Pacers were suffering engine and gearbox failures left right and centre, loco and stock working became very common on services out of Manchester Victoria. Newton Heath couldn't keep on top of the DMU fleet allocated, so the coaching stock, which nominally belonged somewhere else, got absolutely no maintenance and sets would dwindle to a couple of coaches as individual vehicles were red-carded. I've seen a single de-classified Mk2 BFK on an Oldham Circle train, and another example of the BG running solo as the ultimate standee service. Just about any vac or dual braked stock could be used, but once it was, its days were probably numbered. Locos were mostly 31s and 47s. On the other side of the Pennines, around 1970 I remember a Mk1 BSK+CK hauled by a 47 being used as a short notice DMU replacement from Sheffield to Leeds one night (Rotherham Masboro' and Wakefield Westgate stops only). What a wild ride - if there was a 60mph limit on such short trains then nobody had told the driver or guard. 15 late out of Sheffield, right time Leeds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Posted November 17, 2015 Author Share Posted November 17, 2015 Maybe worth trying to get in touch and persuade him to reload it?? Thanks, I hadn't found that site. Will definately try to contact Donald. (The Clapham Junction/Kensington Olympia "Kenny Belle") Great! And I understand short trains like those weren't even an exception for the Kenny Belle. Hope Graham Farish will do the TSO to go with that BCK soon! In the thread on the old Rmweb posters referred to a solitary BG being used on a passenger working out of Huddersfield. At the time that the heritage DMUs were on their last legs on North Manchester services, and Pacers were suffering engine and gearbox failures left right and centre, loco and stock working became very common on services out of Manchester Victoria. Newton Heath couldn't keep on top of the DMU fleet allocated, so the coaching stock, which nominally belonged somewhere else, got absolutely no maintenance and sets would dwindle to a couple of coaches as individual vehicles were red-carded. I've seen a single de-classified Mk2 BFK on an Oldham Circle train, and another example of the BG running solo as the ultimate standee service. Just about any vac or dual braked stock could be used, but once it was, its days were probably numbered. Locos were mostly 31s and 47s. On the other side of the Pennines, around 1970 I remember a Mk1 BSK+CK hauled by a 47 being used as a short notice DMU replacement from Sheffield to Leeds one night (Rotherham Masboro' and Wakefield Westgate stops only). What a wild ride - if there was a 60mph limit on such short trains then nobody had told the driver or guard. 15 late out of Sheffield, right time Leeds. Thanks for sharing that - very useful. One would have give credit credit to BR for trying to keep trains running no matter what, despite the poor condition of rolling stock. I didn't know about these weird train compositions and DMU replacement services when I started modelling early 80s BR, but must say I'm finding those days when anything seemed to be possible, well stock-wise that is, really inspiring! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 .... Great! And I understand short trains like those weren't even an exception for the Kenny Belle. Hope Graham Farish will do the TSO to go with that BCK soon! .... I think at that time, the two morning Kenny Belle trains were formed of the same 73 with the 2 coaches doing two trips, while the two evening trains were a 33+4TC unit. No idea if the 2 coaches did anything else for the remaining 22 hours of the day! That level of service is almost unbelievable now, with the current service between Clapham Jn and Kensington Olympia for most of the day being 5 trains per hour from about 0500-2330, not 4 per day as in the early 80s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Posted November 17, 2015 Author Share Posted November 17, 2015 I hadn't realized those few trains actually were the only connection between the two stations - thought it was an extra rush hour service. Must agree the current level of services is quite an improvement then! (Though I wouldn't mind taking a ride in one of those Mk1's behind a class 73 for a change..) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 The Kenny Belle in steam days used to be 2 trains per day each way, the stock returning empty. Same in diesel/TC days until fairly late in the 1970's. There's a picture on the prototype discussions thread of a DMU motor coach hauling a Mk2 brake coach, apparently in service! The mk2 providing the brake coach. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
84j Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Can remember seeing a single class 20 hauling a dmu on the Chester - Hooton - Helsby turn about 1987/88. Nose first too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold stovepipe Posted November 18, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 18, 2015 Looks like a Mk1 BSO or BCK (5 big windows, versus 4 on a BSK). I think it's a BSO. The 17:10 Perth - Arbroath and return to Dundee was booked for a BSK and a TSO, and this set worked 22:25 Dundee - Perth in the evening and back to Dundee the next weekday morning at 07:10 before returning to Perth ecs. I imagine the BSK from this working is the one the OP linked, with the TSO defective or pinched to replace another somewhere else. Here's another two shots of this working. https://flic.kr/p/7RBwFk Class 27 leaving Broughty Ferry on Perth-Arbroath train, 1984 by Neale Elder, on Flickr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted November 18, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 18, 2015 The Kenny Belle was mainly for people working at a large post office if I remember correctly, hence morning and evening only. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 There are numerous photos on Flickr of 2 coach trains on Exeter -Barnstaple services during DMU shortages in 1990. Haulage was a variety of class 50s and, on one occasion, an RFD 47 https://www.flickr.com/photos/64433281@N07/11523521504/in/photolist-iyi4tf-cT1Lks-ovUENQ-6UyL3k-jLtCGu-qHgSKk-bopDrn-8MR5aX-jBQSYN-j366bw-hBkmQz-fSt7vA-rJNYjk-cQc74b-FSvLJ-wVHLaQ-2MF8yJ-x8Psdt-qr9ZJt-8Wf7ni-xvsrL4-yHNj2-ag7LhS-dzhw37-wXz1sf-nnxPmz-qhh56k-odrLYh-odfJFf-ndNXhs-ouBVKf-fhsa2g-ate5nN-owG9Vn-o9nAd9-qcMLqA-q3C1wc-q8n6uh-pcteS5-rqcABz-55N4r9-hXYwbs-hXYb4a-hXXYhg-hXYDwh-hXYjek-hXYxkk-hXXQ4b-hXZjUz-hXYAHU https://www.flickr.com/photos/tarkaman/5451514495/in/photolist-nrfNnr-nrfP58-9iMBad-9iJrke-a852ZR-9m1fYb Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wirey33 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Can remember seeing a single class 20 hauling a dmu on the Chester - Hooton - Helsby turn about 1987/88. Nose first too. Any more details on this working? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2975 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 The Kenny Belle was mainly for people working at a large post office if I remember correctly, hence morning and evening only. Yes Clive, ISTR it was the Post Office Savings staff . "'put your money in the Post Office" . Brian R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Posted November 20, 2015 Author Share Posted November 20, 2015 Can remember seeing a single class 20 hauling a dmu on the Chester - Hooton - Helsby turn about 1987/88. Nose first too. Wow, would love to see a photo of that. Anything was possible in the 80s! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taigatrommel Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Interesting too is the use of a pair of BSKs, very much a case of using what stock was available! There are numerous photos on Flickr of 2 coach trains on Exeter -Barnstaple services during DMU shortages in 1990. Haulage was a variety of class 50s and, on one occasion, an RFD 47 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckymucklebackit Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 The1S81 Carlisle to Perth ran with two Mk1 passenger coaches on a Saturday Night, the rest of the week a TPO was added along with sundry vans. Haulage after electrification could be anything up to and including a class 86, and being a bashers favourite the drivers were known to show off and some amazing acceleration could be experienced. Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Russ (mines a pint) Posted November 20, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 20, 2015 There was a route in the borders passing through Kelso that was frequently a single coach, this could be a mk1 BCK or an earlier generation of ex LNER equivalent, often hauled by class 4 standard tank. Cant remember the exact working without getting the books out but believe it originated from st Boswells probably heading to Kelso or possibly even to Berwick. This route shut before diesel traction though?2 and 3 coach trains were commonplace in blue era on Fort William to Mallaig usually with class 27 / 20 or 37 - plenty pics on WH line sites. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold stovepipe Posted November 21, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 21, 2015 A genuine single coach working, albeit non-passenger, was 21:40 SX Postal Glasgow C - Carstairs with a single POS. Also wasn't the service to Ballachuilish a single LH coach in the last days of the branch? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesonb Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 There are a number of photos in the George C O'Hara books, generally listed as Scottish Railbus services, with Class 24's and 26's with a single coach. Try seaching the Elgin to Aviemore route. http://www.gnsra.org.uk/images/gallery/DS4_D5341_has_replaced_the_railbus_Elgin_to_Aviemore_in_June_1964_733.jpg Also Ballinluig to Aberfeldy https://www.railscot.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=22268 Also some of the Ayrshire routes. Sorry, I missed the bit about the 1980's oh well..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 Found a site containing some nice pictures of loco-hauled 2-coach trains on the Barton line in the late eighties. Can anyone please identify the types of coaches? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Found a site containing some nice pictures of loco-hauled 2-coach trains on the Barton line in the late eighties. Can anyone please identify the types of coaches?Looks like a Mk1 SK or SO and a BSK. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted November 24, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 24, 2015 Mk1 BSK and TSO (or could be SK - depends on the roof vents, but I think the corridor coaches had vents in a single straight line) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flood Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Mk1 BSK and TSO (or could be SK - depends on the roof vents, but I think the corridor coaches had vents in a single straight line) It's an SK. As you said, the late build ones with Commonwealth bogies had a single line of vents. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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