Peckett locomotives - works numbers/class

[south_tyne]

Hi all,

 

This could be a longshot but I am trying to trace what type of class/type a particular locomotive was which was built by Peckett.

 

It was number 916, an 0-4-0st and dated from 1901. It was based at Newfield Colliery and Brickworks in South West Durham and was a Dorman Long loco.

 

Is there any central resource/archive for finding out a little more? A little bit of internet searching has thrown up that 917 is an R1 Type and is preserved at the Chasewater Railway in the Midlands. Now I expect it is far too simplistic to assume that 916 was also an R1 but I expect it must have been a similar type!

 

Any advice welcome but understand that information on these type of industrial locomotives is often limited.

 

Many thanks,

David

[Dunsignalling]

There's a long list on Wikipedia, just Google "Peckett Locomotives", (which may be how you found 917) but the one you are after isn't on it.

 

Probably a more comprehensive one elsewhere on the web.

 

John

Edited January 19, 2016 by Dunsignalling

[peter220950]

Hi David,

 

RCTS have a photo on their list, (Page 24)

 

https://www.rcts.org.uk/features/archive/Industrial.pdf

 

FAI3712 G 0-4-0ST (Peckett 916 of 1901) at Dorman Long (Steel) Ltd, Newfield Colliery & Brickworks 24/8/56

 

and the NRM list a couple of Drawings for No 916 in their lists of drawings (page 87)

 

Peckett Sons drawing list.pdf

 

Hope this helps

 

Peter

[PGH]

The following information is from the latest edition of the Industrial Railway Society's Durham Handbook:

 

Peckett 916 was a Class R1 0-4-0ST with 12" x 18" cylinders and 3'-0½" dia. wheels, despatched on 16.10.1901 to W.S.Laycock Ltd., Victoria Works, Sheffield.

 

By March 1917 it was at Bolckow Vaughan & Co.Ltd., West Auckland Colliery, Durham, according to a Peckett spares order and in 1921 it went to the same company's Newfield Colliery and Brickworks, which was served by a 1 mile branch from Hunwick Station on the BR Durham - Bishop Auckland line.  However the book also lists it at the Ramshaw Coal Co.Ltd., West Tees Colliery, not going to Newfield until 1927 so there seems to be some doubt about that period.

 

On 1.11.1929 ownership of the Newfield Colliery and brickworks passed to Dorman Long & Co.Ltd.  On Nationalisation of the coal industry the colliery became a licensed mine.  It was abandoned in December 1959 but the brickworks continued in operation.  Rail traffic was replaced by road transport about 1962 and Peckett 916 was scrapped at about that date.

 

At some stage in its career the loco carried the number "1"

 

There is a photo of this loco in 1939 on page 136 of the book

Edited January 19, 2016 by PGH

[south_tyne]

There's a long list on Wikipedia, just Google "Peckett Locomotives", (which may be how you found 917) but the one you are after isn't on it.

 

Probably a more comprehensive one elsewhere on the web.

 

John

John,

 

Thank you very much for the reply. Yes, that indeed how I found 917 and it is a very useful link!

[south_tyne]

 

Hi David,

 

RCTS have a photo on their list, (Page 24)

 

https://www.rcts.org.uk/features/archive/Industrial.pdf

 

FAI3712 G 0-4-0ST (Peckett 916 of 1901) at Dorman Long (Steel) Ltd, Newfield Colliery & Brickworks 24/8/56

 

and the NRM list a couple of Drawings for No 916 in their lists of drawings (page 87)

 

Peckett Sons drawing list.pdf

 

Hope this helps

 

Peter

Hi Peter,

 

thanks for your reply, I really appreciate it. Those two links are great and just the kind of think that I was after!

 

I will investigate both sources of information further. I'll see if I can get hold of that RCTS image as a starting point.

 

Thanks again for your help,

David

Edited January 19, 2016 by south_tyne

[south_tyne]

The following information is from the latest edition of the Industrial Railway Society's Durham Handbook:

 

Peckett 916 was a Class R1 0-4-0ST with 12" x 18" cylinders and 3'-0½" dia. wheels, despatched on 16.10.1901 to W.S.Laycock Ltd., Victoria Works, Sheffield.

 

By March 1917 it was at Bolckow Vaughan & Co.Ltd., West Auckland Colliery, Durham, according to a Peckett spares order and in 1921 it went to the same company's Newfield Colliery and Brickworks, which was served by a 1 mile branch from Hunwick Station on the BR Durham - Bishop Auckland line. However the book also lists it at the Ramshaw Coal Co.Ltd., West Tees Colliery, not going to Newfield until 1927 so there seems to be some doubt about that period.

 

On 1.11.1929 ownership of the Newfield Colliery and brickworks passed to Dorman Long & Co.Ltd. On Nationalisation of the coal industry the colliery became a licensed mine. It was abandoned in December 1959 but the brickworks continued in operation. Rail traffic was replaced by road transport about 1962 and Peckett 916 was scrapped at about that date.

 

At some stage in its career the loco carried the number "1"

 

There is a photo of this loco in 1939 on page 136 of the book

PGH,

 

Thanks, that is champion!! I am very grateful for your comprehensive and informative response. That is fantastic detail and exactly what I was looking for.

 

That clears up that it was an R1 Type and gives an interesting potted history. The reason I am interested is that my family is from Newfield (and Todhills), my Granda worked at the brickworks and my Great-Grandfather worked on the weighcabin at the colliery! So a very personal connection to the site and I feel the locomotove too.

 

My Dad grew up in Newfield until the age of 8 (they left for the bright lights of Bishop Auckland in 1960!) and has vivid memories of 'Peckett'. There was also another locomotive, a Hunslet 0-4-0 if I recall correctly, although my Dad seems to recall it being out of service in the late 1950s.

 

I will try and get hold of a photograph, either through the afforementioned book or from the RCTS source referenced above.

 

The recent release of the 7mm scale Minerva Peckett and forthcoming 4mm Hornby model has prompted ideas for some kind of diorama or micro layout. Although neither example is of the R1 Type, being an 'E' and 'W4' respectively, so I will have to do some further digging to find out if the differences between the various types named were subtle or more substantive.

 

Thanks again for your help and insight.

 

David

[PGH]

David,

 

With regard to the second locomotive, the aforementioned IRS Handbook lists another 0-4-0ST scrapped at the same time as P 916, this being No.43 built by Dorman Long in 1949 and obtained from the firm's Britannia Works at Middlesbrough circa November 1960.  This replaced an Avonside 0-4-0ST of 1917 named BETTY, which was scrapped about the same time (November 1960). 

 

The publication is "The Industrial Railways & Locomotives of County Durham" published in 2006, but its not listed on the IRS website so presumably is out of print.

 

The letter designation of Peckett 0-4-0ST loco types generally denotes size, i.e.

 

            M             -             10" cylinders            2'-6" or 2'-9" wheels

            R               -            12" cylinders            3'-0" or 3'-0½" wheels

            W             -             13" later 14" cylinders            3'-0½" or 3'-2½" wheels

            E              -             15" cylinders            3'-7" wheels

            OY            -            16" cylinders            3'-10" wheels

 

Revised or updated versions of each type were denoted by the number, e.g. R1, R2, R3, etc

 

PGH

Edited January 20, 2016 by PGH

[south_tyne]

David,

 

With regard to the second locomotive, the aforementioned IRS Handbook lists another 0-4-0ST scrapped at the same time as P 916, this being No.43 built by Dorman Long in 1949 and obtained from the firm's Britannia Works at Middlesbrough circa November 1960. This replaced an Avonside 0-4-0ST of 1917 named BETTY, which was scrapped about the same time (November 1960).

 

The publication is "The Industrial Railways & Locomotives of County Durham" published in 2006, but its not listed on the IRS website so presumably is out of print.

 

The letter designation of Peckett 0-4-0ST loco types generally denotes size, i.e.

 

M - 10" cylinders 2'-6" or 2'-9" wheels

R - 12" cylinders 3'-0" or 3'-0½" wheels

W - 13" later 14" cylinders 3'-0½" or 3'-2½" wheels

E - 15" cylinders 3'-7" wheels

OY - 16" cylinders 3'-10" wheels

 

Revised or updated versions of each type were denoted by the number, e.g. R1, R2, R3, etc

 

PGH

 

PGH,

 

Again thank you for that excellent information I really appreciate you taking the time to dig it out and give such a comprehensive reply - it is very kind.

 

The two locomotives which were based there for the majority of the time were evidently known as 'Betty' and 'Peckett. Evidently, in my Dad's memory, it was the Peckett which was used in the main at the end of the 1950s, despite being the older locomotive and 'Betty' spent most of the time out of use... Although that is very much anecdotal and from his memory! I was obviously mistaken in thinking it was a Hunslet loco mind, interesting to hear that it was from the Avonside works. It is a shame that the book in question appears to be out of print but I will keep an eye out to see if it ever crops up on the secondhand market. I'll have to hunt the usual places!

 

The branch from Hunwick station down to the brickworks and colliery at Newfield actually was quite an interesting one and was, as I understand, partly used as a route for Newfield residents to walk up to Hunwick station. Long gone of course but it is amazing how fascinating an every day, work-a-day, little industrial railway would be nowadays!! Then such things were just taken for granted though.

[rope runner]

Could anyone tell me which build design P1050 was? Looking at photos I believe she's an M4...

 

Photograph here if you're interested:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/31514768@N05/11327698725

 

Paul A. 

Edited January 20, 2016 by 1whitemoor

[Osgood]

P1050 is listed as an R1 named IRONSTONE supplied Feb 1907 to James Pain quarry operators Corby

[rope runner]

Thanks Osgood.

 

That makes sense, as P1257 UPPINGHAM and P1259 ROTHWELL were both R2 class and supplied to James Pain in later years. 

 

Paul A. 

[bristolport]

Peckett 466 "Lionel" was built in 1889 for the Bristol Port Authority and worked at Avonmouth Docks. The Bristol Port Company still have the plans for the new boiler fitted in 1913.

 

Peter

[richard west]

Hi

 

I too am interested in Peckett locomotives.  I have come across a reference to 0-6-0STs 1828 and 1829, apparently built for the GWR in 1931 but sold soon after to the Clevedon Bridge Company, re-gauged to 3ft 6 and the sold to Nyasaland Railways as their AA class no.s 3 and 4.  The same soiurce states that they were withdrawn in 1960 & 1964.

 

I can't find any further information - they are not listed in Masrtyn Bane's list on Wikipedia and there seems to ne no mention in teh RCTS GWR publications.

 

Can anyone help?  Thanks.

Richard West

[sir douglas]

as far as im aware, peckett classfies by cylinder size, such as Meardy colliery 0-6-0  saddle tank and the christamss island 0-8-0 tender are both OQ and OQT respectively, they both have 18 x 26 cylinders

[Osgood]

Hi

 

I too am interested in Peckett locomotives.  I have come across a reference to 0-6-0STs 1828 and 1829, apparently built for the GWR in 1931 but sold soon after to the Clevedon Bridge Company, re-gauged to 3ft 6 and the sold to Nyasaland Railways as their AA class no.s 3 and 4.  The same soiurce states that they were withdrawn in 1960 & 1964.

 

I can't find any further information - they are not listed in Masrtyn Bane's list on Wikipedia and there seems to ne no mention in teh RCTS GWR publications.

 

Can anyone help?  Thanks.

Richard West

 

Hi Richard,

 

According to my well-thumbed copy of F Jux's Peckett Works List, both were built 1931 - together with sisters 1824 and 1827 - as 3'6" gauge B3 0-6-0 side tanks with outside 14x22 cylinders direct for Cleveland Bridge & Engineering, Biera, Mozambique.  

 

Interestingly, Nos 1825 and 1826 do not feature in the works list, so who knows - just possibly the order for 6 was reduced to 4?

 

Tony

Edited July 7, 2017 by Osgood

[PGH]

 

Hi Richard,

 

According to my well-thumbed copy of F Jux's Peckett Works List, both were built 1931 - together with sisters 1824 and 1827 - as 3'6" gauge B3 0-6-0 side tanks with outside 14x22 cylinders direct for Cleveland Bridge & Engineering, Biera, Mozambique.  

 

Interestingly, Nos 1825 and 1826 do not feature in the works list, so who knows - just possibly the order for 6 was reduced to 4?

 

Tony

 

 

I must have a different version of the list as Peckett 1824 is listed as the standard gauge 0-8-0 for the Christmas Island Phosphate Co.

 

Pecketts 1827, 1828 and 1829 were 'Class B3 Special' 0-6-0Ts for 3'-6" gauge to the order of Cleveland Bridge & Engineering Co.Ltd. and sent in parts to Beira via the East India Dock, London.  1827 was ex works 11/5/1931; 1828 ex works 2/6/1931 and 1829 ex works 26/6/1931.

All three were taken over by the Nyasaland Railways.

 

The above information is from a copy of a works list compiled I believe by the late R.T.Russell at Pecketts and there is no mention of 1828 and 1829 being originally intended for the GWR. 

[Osgood]

I must have a different version of the list as Peckett 1824 is listed as the standard gauge 0-8-0 for the Christmas Island Phosphate Co.

 

Pecketts 1827, 1828 and 1829 were 'Class B3 Special' 0-6-0Ts for 3'-6" gauge to the order of Cleveland Bridge & Engineering Co.Ltd. and sent in parts to Beira via the East India Dock, London.  1827 was ex works 11/5/1931; 1828 ex works 2/6/1931 and 1829 ex works 26/6/1931.

All three were taken over by the Nyasaland Railways.

 

The above information is from a copy of a works list compiled I believe by the late R.T.Russell at Pecketts and there is no mention of 1828 and 1829 being originally intended for the GWR. 

 

The other explanation is that I mis-read Jux's list - and so yes, 1824 is indeed the Xmas Island loco - my apologies  

 

1825 and 1826 are absent from this list.

[richard west]

The other explanation is that I mis-read Jux's list - and so yes, 1824 is indeed the Xmas Island loco - my apologies  

 

1825 and 1826 are absent from this list.

Hi

 

Many thanks to both of you.  This all makes much more sense than my original source.  It also ties in with the orion.math.iastate.edu website of standard steam classes which gives 14 x 22 cylinders, BP 180 psi, weight 37t, grate area 14 sq ft and evaporative surface 690 sq ft.

 

Any information on Nyasaland Railways' numbers?

Thanks again

Richard