LNWR South of Birmingham

[Nearholmer]

New topic intended to tackle acute thread drift in "derailment near Watford", which has got into a fascinating discussion of the history of the tunnels and stations at Watford.

 

I've given this a wider title, because there is an absolute stack of fascinating railway industrial archaeology to discuss along the route of the London & Birmingham, and the NLR route to the docks and city.

 

Here is a cracking link to start the ball (train?) rolling http://www.crht1837.org/history/lbr

 

Kevin

[TheSignalEngineer]

To keep things together I am reposting the extract I put on the other thread regarding Watford Junction and the tunnels. 

 

The Euston & Crewe Companion by D S Barrie (Oakwood Press 1947) gives some information about the area.  Although nearly 70 years old the book has a lot of snippets aimed at informing the traveller about how the route grew up. It includes extracts from the old LMS diagrams showing the track layout and gradients

 

 

Quote :-

 

Watford Junction marks the present limit of the suburban area and of electric traction. The station in its present location dates from the 1850s, the original- the first "Principal Station" out of Euston on the L&B - having been situated a little further North. Parts of the original station are incorporated in the District Engineer's depot (up side). The flight of stone steps leading down to the lineside at the depot is still known as "Queen Adelaide's Steps" having been provided for the Queen Dowager when she made train journeys to or from Watford.

 

An "Up Third (Goods) line was opened between Watford and Bletchley in 1859; this line was gauntletted with the Up Fast Line through Watford Tunnel until the completion of Watford New Tunnel (carrying the Slow Lines) in 1874 The fourth track between Watford and Tring was passed for passenger traffic in November 1875.

 

Approaching Watford Tunnels the Slow Lines bear away slightly to the East to traverse the New Tunnel. The Old Tunnel gave some trouble in its construction, due to the looseness of the chalk, and ten men were killed by a subsidence of one of the shafts.

 

 

 The steps are visible on the early OS plans available at www.old-maps.co.uk and on the 1:1250 plan from 1959. the latter shows the original station as 'Old Station House' https://www.old-maps...97624/13/101329

[hayfield]

Living in the next station south of Watford on the mainline, I grew up trainspotting just south of what was then Bushey and Oxhey station. My dad had an alotment at the top of the cutting, there was a large water tower just south of the coal yard and a but further up the water troughs, what a sight as they approached Oxhey Road bridge with water spraying in all directions

[PhilJ W]

Here is an item on the first Watford station.

http://www.north-watford-history.org.uk/pages/railways/original-watford-station.html

[PhilJ W]

This is a real gem, page down for the part on the first Watford station, including a detailed map.

http://www.gerald-massey.org.uk/Railway/c11_stations.htm

If you page down a bit further to the plan of Tring station it is almost identical in plan to Watford.

[Nearholmer]

And, we'd better give attention to the other end of the line, at Curzon Street https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1343086

 

Like most things about Curzon Street, this entry focuses on the remaining, main, building.

 

It seems harder to find references that describe the rest of the complex, and how operations worked. The bit that interests me is how they transacted through carriages, coming to/from the Grand Junction.

 

Did they timetable "through trains"?

 

Or did they, as I suspect, have timetable slots for trains, then make-up each train according to tickets booked, both for long, through, trips, and shorter 'in L&B' trips.

 

Also, they seem to have had an absolutely extraordinary number of locos (roughly one per mile of route by the early 1850s), most of them tiny little things by more recent standards, and presumably each having pretty poor availability for traffic.

 

Train spotting on the L&B must have been seriously entertaining; better than a dull parade of Pendolinos and 350s! Sufficiently interesting to attract ladies to the line side, if the picture at the bottom is to be believed.

 

K

[Nearholmer]

Brilliant "trip up the line" in 1838 here, including pictures of Watford Tunnel under construction.

 

http://www.railalbum.co.uk/early-railways/london-birmingham-railway-3.htm

 

K

[Zomboid]

Were the L&B into right hand running? How and when did we come to standardise on left hand running?

 

That's going off topic pretty quick...

[Nearholmer]

I wondered that, seeing the pictures, but I don't know the answer to either question.

 

Did find a timetable, though, for the period when there was still a "missing bit" from Rugby to Bletchley. This was published in the Engineer in 1909, after a chap in Loughborough unearthed the copy.

 

K

I wondered that, seeing the pictures, but I don't know the answer to either question.

 

Did find a timetable, though, for the period when there was still a "missing bit" from Rugby to Bletchley. This was published in the Engineer in 1909, after a chap in Loughborough unearthed the copy.

 

K

[hayfield]

Brilliant "trip up the line" in 1838 here, including pictures of Watford Tunnel under construction.

 

http://www.railalbum.co.uk/early-railways/london-birmingham-railway-3.htm

 

K

 

 

Stunning

 

The Bushey arches are still the same, except both pubs are long gone. The next viaduct my uncle used to swim in the pools below as a boy  in I guess the late 20's

 

A friends wife wrote a book about this part of the railway for Bushey Museum, there was an attempted assassination of a member of the Russian royal family on the embankment, the explosives never went off.

[Bernard Lamb]

Went for a bike ride this morning and took the camera.

The station building, as mentioned by Hayfield I think, is still a car show room. A photo of the other side might be possible from the bridge if you were rather taller than I am. The opposite side of the tracks is well wooded so the only chance of a better shot is from a train. You would need a person with permission to open a window.

The blocks are the ones I mentioned in KL.

I have put a photo on the derailment thread to give a general view of the topography and vegetation.

Bernard

[Bernard Lamb]

http://eustonarch.org/archive/

 

Forgot to add this link.

As well as the arch and it's history there are lots of photos.

Bernard

[hayfield]

Pity I am not still living in Watford as I would be twisting a few arms to build Watford Junction as it was first built, though the engine and goods sheds would make a good additional interests and I guess the layout would be quite short. A great project for the North London group to get their teeth into !!

[Nearholmer]

There can't be too many Grade II listed used car shops around!

 

K

[hayfield]

Plenty of grade 2 listed cars though!!

[PenrithBeacon]

Pity I am not still living in Watford as I would be twisting a few arms to build Watford Junction as it was first built, though the engine and goods sheds would make a good additional interests and I guess the layout would be quite short. A great project for the North London group to get their teeth into !!

An NLG member has built a diorama of the original Watford station.

 

Regards

[Bernard Lamb]

Just thought of this one.

The row of stones across the front is made from original blocks. 

This pub has recently been converted into residential use. I hope the blocks remain.

Bernard

[PenrithBeacon]

I had a very pleasant 2hr stint of observation at Cheddington this afternoon and noticed that the LNWR wall on Platform 1 is itself supported by stone blocks. I wonder if these might by the original PW sleeper blocks?

 

Regards