Ron Ron Ron Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Lenz have announced what they describe as an "inexpensive" (tee hee) option to allow ordinary Lenz handsets to be operated wirelessly (radio). The downside is that it involves using a plug-in dongle, or "belt pack", that plugs into the handset. Presumably this dongle also contains a rechargeable power supply, to provide power to the handset. It may prove cumbersome from the released graphic. It does mean, that existing handsets can be used and because the dongle just plugs in, they can be used as normal "tethered" handsets as well. i.e. no conversion involved. A new wireless base station will have to be purchased, to provide the connection with XpressNet. Time and time again required by model railroads: an inexpensive cable hand controller.Lenz did not want to add another model to the controllers already available on the market, but a different route has been used, which allows, among other things, the further use of the existing hand controllers. The solution is a radio system consisting of a transmitter unit, which is connected to the XpressNet, as well as mobile radio receivers into which the hand controllers are plugged. The radio receiver is carried by the model builder in the same way as a "belt pack" for wireless microphones. Several mobile receivers can be powered by a transmitter, and controllers connected to the XpressNet by cable remain, of course, an option. (p.s. On Lenz's track record, it might be a wee while before we see this on the shelves.) . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gismorail Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 At last and yes it might be a 'wee' while till it's on the shelves but one things for certain it will be spot on !!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted February 1, 2017 Author Share Posted February 1, 2017 Info at the bottom of this Lenz newsletter...... http://www.lenz-elektronik.de/pdf/lenz-anzeiger-02.pdf . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PaulCheffus Posted February 1, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 1, 2017 Hi Why didn't they go for TCP/IP via your home router then if you had already bought the Lenz Ethernet / USB interface you wouldn't need anything other than the dongle. I'll be sticking with my iPod and TouchCab for my wireless solution. Cheers Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted February 1, 2017 Author Share Posted February 1, 2017 ....Why didn't they go for TCP/IP via your home router then if you had already bought the Lenz Ethernet / USB interface you wouldn't need anything other than the dongle...... Hi Paul This option doesn't require a home router or any wireless network. It would suit situations such as...... No home wireless network available. No, or poor wireless signal in an outbuilding (shed, cabin, annex, garage etc,), or a part of the home where the wireless signal is poor or not available (e.g. a loft, the west wing etc,). No desire to use an available home wireless network. Exhibition conditions...no need to set up a mobile wireless network at the show. If you don't have and don't need the Ethernet/USB interface module, you can simply buy the new XpressNet wireless interface instead. Other benefits include.... Lenz didn't have to develop, add to its range or keep in its inventory, an additional handset model (cost and resources). No need for a conversion kit to convert the existing handsets. Existing handsets can be used for wireless operation. Ease of switching between wireless operation and regular "tethered" operation. If you already have the Ethernet/USB interface module (e.g. users of TouchCab and RC-CAB), then you are at no disadvantage compared with any other Lenz user if wanting to adopt this new wireless option for existing Lenz handsets. You will have to purchase the wireless XpressNet interface and handset dongles, like everyone else. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 It has really come a bit late. Why not a new USB/Ethernet/wireless interface to replace the current interface and Wi-Fi radio pods for the tethered throttles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted February 1, 2017 Author Share Posted February 1, 2017 ....Why not a new USB/Ethernet/wireless interface to replace the current interface..... Just posing possible reasons.... The cost, to both Lenz and the end-users? What if you have no need for the Ethernet /USB facility? Most users probably/almost certainly don't. Why pay for features that are not required? The development costs to Lenz and likely return on that investment? (e.g. the cost of redesigning the existing Ethernet/USB interface and the resultant smaller market because of the higher retail price of a combined unit.) I think I can guess where they're coming from. I'm sure they are more likely to sell a stand-alone wireless solution to a wider audience, than the potential market for ethernet and USB facilities. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Just posing possible reasons.... The cost, to both Lenz and the end-users? What if you have no need for the Ethernet /USB facility? Most users probably/almost certainly don't. Why pay for features that are not required? The development costs to Lenz and likely return on that investment? (e.g. the cost of redesigning the existing Ethernet/USB interface and the resultant smaller market because of the higher retail price of a combined unit.) I think I can guess where they're coming from. I'm sure they are more likely to sell a stand-alone wireless solution to a wider audience, than the potential market for ethernet and USB facilities. . Why did they bring out USB interfaces when they already had serial ones that could be used with an adaptor, why a combined USB and EtherNet adaptor (at very great cost) when you would only want one or the other. Adding Wi-Fi functionality to the EtherNet interface should be a very small incremental cost, especially compared with developing a whole new wireless solution and adding extra products to the range. Given how much the EtherNet interface costs I cannot see any reason why it should cost any more with wireless capability. Given that the wireless receiver is going to have just as much in it as the Ethernet interface why will it be any cheaper. I just despair! Hopefully the Wi-Fi MultiMaus will work with the current Lenz interface, or at least with JMRI, or this new wireless solution really is properly cheap (in a cost sense!). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PaulCheffus Posted February 1, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 1, 2017 Why did they bring out USB interfaces when they already had serial ones that could be used with an adaptor, why a combined USB and EtherNet adaptor (at very great cost) when you would only want one or the other. Adding Wi-Fi functionality to the EtherNet interface should be a very small incremental cost, especially compared with developing a whole new wireless solution and adding extra products to the range. Given how much the EtherNet interface costs I cannot see any reason why it should cost any more with wireless capability. Given that the wireless receiver is going to have just as much in it as the Ethernet interface why will it be any cheaper. I just despair! Hopefully the Wi-Fi MultiMaus will work with the current Lenz interface, or at least with JMRI, or this new wireless solution really is properly cheap (in a cost sense!). Hi That was my point as well. I already have the Ethernet interface why couldn't they develop something that worked with it instead of expecting me to buy yet another interface, I can guarantee one thing though, when my DCC system needs replacing the replacement will certainly not be a Lenz one. Cheers Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted February 1, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 1, 2017 the cable on my 100 handset has given up the ghost yet again (it's been back 3 or 4 times for Repair since I've had it) and as it's out of warranty now it's been looking like I'd have to bite the bullet and get a new handset so when I saw this thread yesterday I thought fantastic, I can use my existing lenz USB/wifi adapter that I use with TouchCab and merely replace the handset cable with the dongle wire but as it appears I'd have to shell out on yet another adapter which I'm not going to be doing, it's a real shame they can't develop a handset that can program CVs etc to work with the existing USB adapter The way it's going I may well just ditch the whole lens set up and look at something different Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted February 1, 2017 Author Share Posted February 1, 2017 Suzie, Paul and Jim... I fully understand where you're coming from, but I'm only playing devil's advocate here. Have you stopped to consider that this new wireless optIon isn't targeted at you? I'd lay money on the fact there are more Lenz users out there who do not have the Ethernet/USB interface, than those who do. It's a reasonable bet that many of them would welcome the opportunity to obtain wireless capability, without wanting the Ethernet/USB facility. We don't know the pricing yet, although I suspect it won't be cheap, especially as in continental Europe, prices (in Euros) are shooting up at the moment (i.e. nothing to do with Sterling). When Lenz's prices are published, we'll have a better understanding of the relative values here. As to the sentiments expressed above, I'm no longer a Lenz user and there's nothing they are offering that would tempt me back. They took their eye off the digital ball 10 years ago and have fallen so far behind, it's unlikely they'll catch up in the near future. Having said that, if I was still a Lenz user and the price of this wireless option was attractive to me, I'd probably go for it. There are lots of Lenz users who may do just the same. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 the cable on my 100 handset has given up the ghost yet again (it's been back 3 or 4 times for Repair since I've had it) and as it's out of warranty now it's been looking like I'd have to bite the bullet and get a new handset I Problem with LH100 cable is it's just too long, and it's gets stood on, and fails eventually. I cured mine by replacing the cable with the coiled one from an LH90 - cut the plug off at one end and solder the 4 leads to the LH100 circuit board- it's now too short to reach the floor...................sorted ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted February 1, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 1, 2017 Ron, Your final point about the wireless option being attractive is exactly what I felt when I had a try of TouchCab on 250bobs layout hence why I went out and bought the wifi adapter, which now would appear to be obsolete should I want to go 'lens wireless' with a new handset, personally I see the whole use of external battery packs on wires and dongles as a backward step What I'd like to see is a wifi handset with an internal battery and docking station that can charge it up when not in use, they could even use cableless charging technology such as I have on my Apple Watch where the handset is left on a pad to charge up I may well have a look at some other controller options at the Stafford show this weekend Regards the cable A+H replaced mine with the coiled one a couple of years back, it lasted about 2 months before failing again, it appears the din plug is the weak point in mine as if you jiggle the wires and push it hard into the lens faceplate adapters it will work just long enough to program cv's before the screen goes blank Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Regards the cable A+H replaced mine with the coiled one a couple of years back, it lasted about 2 months before failing again, it appears the din plug is the weak point in mine as if you jiggle the wires and push it hard into the lens faceplate adapters it will work just long enough to program cv's before the screen goes blank Sounds like a poor/faulty connection/joint at the DIN plug, have you tried pulling the plastic cover back on the DIN plug and checking the wire solder joints to the pins are secure ? I've never had any bother with mine in 8+ years after changing the cable.............. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted February 1, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 1, 2017 Yep, tried all sorts, Last time it was the solder connections at the handset end that had dried up and come loose according to A+H Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted February 1, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 1, 2017 Jim at all, Roco is offering promising a wireless MultiMaus (should be available in a month or so) that may or may not work with the Lenz Ethernet interface. As for the LH100 hand set: replace the failing connector with a normal RJ11 phone version. Sorry to go o/t, how do I do that, simply cut the din off the existing cable and replace with the 'telephone' connector? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted February 1, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 1, 2017 Maplin do the crimp tools and connectors but as you say it's getting the wires right. I do have a coiled telephone cable I got from a discount store in the shed, I'll see if that will do the job, cut the connection off one end of it and get someone to solder the bare wires at handset end for me (once I'm sure the wires are right) nothing to lose as it's out of warranty and barely works anyway! Again sorry for going o/t, I will start another thread if I get stuck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PaulCheffus Posted February 1, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 1, 2017 the cable on my 100 handset has given up the ghost yet again (it's been back 3 or 4 times for Repair since I've had it) and as it's out of warranty now it's been looking like I'd have to bite the bullet and get a new handset so when I saw this thread yesterday I thought fantastic, I can use my existing lenz USB/wifi adapter that I use with TouchCab and merely replace the handset cable with the dongle wire but as it appears I'd have to shell out on yet another adapter which I'm not going to be doing, it's a real shame they can't develop a handset that can program CVs etc to work with the existing USB adapter The way it's going I may well just ditch the whole lens set up and look at something different Hi I bought a 5 Pin to 5 Pin audio cable, cut one plug off and replaced the cable with it. The handset has been fine ever since. Cheers Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Izzy Posted February 2, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 2, 2017 I am not a Lenz user but one distinct advantage I can see as a wireless handset user is the ability to use a standard handset as either wireless or tethered. With my Prodigy system the handset can't be used tethered if there are conflicting wi-fi signals, (which seems to be an increasing problem at exhibitions) nor can the channel be changed to offset it. Izzy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted February 2, 2017 Author Share Posted February 2, 2017 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Agreed that it is nice to be able to plug-in when required. Wi-Fi is a lot better than it was especially if the latest protocols like 802.11ac are implemented. I suspect a lot of the problems that wireless handset users have is that the wireless uses older communication systems that are not immune to congestion and interference. Wi-Fi and Zigbee should be sound, and Wi-Fi is quite easy to improve if required with better or more access points, but other methods can be tricky. I think I might see a market for a plug-in unit similar to the Lenz pack but using Wi-Fi and having multi-protocol support for ExpressNet, NCE, LocoNet, and perhaps the CAN buses too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Well, compared to the old, long discontinued, wireless handset for Lenz which ESU used to make, I'm underwhelmed by this latest offering. - Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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