Sheep Movement on Public Roads

[Penlan]

In the topic 'MRJ 254 Post-Pub....' at posts #79 & 80 (Which was actually to do with the AA Sign)

   http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/121599-mrj-254-post-publication-thread/page-4&do=findComment&comment=2722130

Nit-Picking makes reference that the Sheep are to spread out,

the 'offending' view (post #79 - but slightly broader) is repeated here :-

 

 

So to check Nit-Picker's view, I looked through a few books I have and found the following pictures, which seem to vindicate the Nit-Picker's observations - Feck, I shall have to buy some more sheep, one's that match my emaciated sheep, well they have been on that road for 27 years.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 15, 2017 by Penlan

[Dr.Glum]

I don't think you've done too badly about the sheep. I've been helping out on my friend's sheep farm the last two years. When we drive small groups within the farm, along tracks with grassy banks, when there's no dog involved they do spread out. When there is a dog (as in your model), they will pack closer, but some will always decide the grazing is much much better where they now are (it's a sheep thing). So you get separated sheep grazing, like you have modelled and like one of the B&W photos you show. In the town shots, those sheep are seriously unhappy at being where they are, so have bunched very tightly.

If there's any niggle, your dog on the left is a bit too close. I'd expect the laggards to be running full tilt away from such close contact. Proper shepherds may well keep the dog behind them - the sheep know full well there is one about. Unless of course you want to model a stroppy ewe going face to face with the dog. Just rarely they'll feel so resistant that they'll attempt to head butt the dog!

Lovely modelling, btw.

[clecklewyke]

This still happens annually in my village, when the Hodgsons bring their sheep from the moorside to the water meadows for lambing.

 

Ian

[Penlan]

I don't think you've done too badly about the sheep. ......If there's any niggle, your dog on the left is a bit too close. I'd expect the laggards to be running full tilt away from such close contact. Proper shepherds may well keep the dog behind them - the sheep know full well there is one about. 

Thank you, I shall amend accordingly.

[Penlan]

This still happens annually in my village, when the Hodgsons bring their sheep from the moorside to the water meadows for lambing.

Yeh, that's my lot at the back      Many thanks.

 

I'm always surprised when up in the Lake District that it is so favoured by dog owners - Yes I know Askrigg's in Wensleydale - because basically there's great walks, but you can't let the dogs off the lead, or at least I wouldn't,

I found it very restrictive when I took my two Collies up there.

When I lived in the Malvern Hills area, there was the occasional dog shot for sheep worrying and indeed damaging them, rightly too in my opinion.

Edited May 15, 2017 by Penlan

[teaky]

Yeh, that's my lot at the back      Many thanks.

 

I'm always surprised when up in the Lake District that it is so favoured by dog owners - Yes I know Askrigg's in Wensleydale - because basically there's great walks, but you can't let the dogs off the lead, or at least I wouldn't,

I found it very restrictive when I took my two Collies up there.

When I lived in the Malvern Hills area, there was the occasional dog shot for sheep worrying and indeed damaging them, rightly too in my opinion.

Still happens.  I last read about one last year but I wouldn't be surprised if it happens more frequently.  Lots of sheep around and lots of dog owners.

 

Slightly OT - Sheep and cattle are currently being used to manage the tops of the Malvern Hills themselves and keep the land looking like it used to.  They are penned into areas using electric fences and help keep the unwanted plants like bracken in check.  These penned areas are moved around at intervals.  I suppose this is much like the Lake District but since the main parts of the Malvern Hills are no longer parts of farms it has been a conscious reintroduction rather than just part of the normal farming practice.

[Penlan]

Slightly OT - Sheep and cattle are currently being used to manage the tops of the Malvern Hills themselves and keep the land looking like it used to ............. and help keep the unwanted plants like bracken in check. 

These penned areas are moved around at intervals.  I suppose this is much like the Lake District but since the main parts of the Malvern Hills are no longer parts of farms it has been a conscious reintroduction rather than just part of the normal farming practice.

Don't worry about going OT, that (to some of us) is the joy of RMweb.

Bracken is one of the worst things for destroying archaeological items, and the decline in rabbits means there's not a lot left to graze the landscape, and yes, I'm mindful rabbits are not indigenous.

I don't recall seeing any penned in areas in the Lake District, but then I didn't go up to the peaks, more like Ambleside up to the pub at the Kirkstone Pass (and back, eventually).

I believe it's mostly farmers (probably tenants) land, though of course large areas belong to the National Trust, but from my point of view with two Collies there seemed to be sheep everywhere.

[ColinK]

On Sunday I was driving the bus service over the moors near Clitheroe. Two sheep had managed to open the lid on a roadside salt bin and had their heads inside enjoying the salt!

[Penlan]

Dr.Glum .......... Proper shepherds may well keep the dog behind them - the sheep know full well there is one about. ......

Unless of course you want to model a stroppy ewe going face to face with the dog. 

Well I have one of those delightful Shepherd's that 'Modelu' had on his stand a year or two ago, so that will be on the layout soon, so I can re-position things to suit. 

 

I have a couple of stroppy ewes at home already, I don't need to model them  

Edited May 15, 2017 by Penlan

[teaky]

Don't worry about going OT, that (to some of us) is the joy of RMweb.

Bracken is one of the worst things for destroying archaeological items, and the decline in rabbits means there's not a lot left to graze the landscape, and yes, I'm mindful rabbits are not indigenous.

I don't recall seeing any penned in areas in the Lake District, but then I didn't go up to the peaks, more like Ambleside up to the pub at the Kirkstone Pass (and back, eventually).

I believe it's mostly farmers (probably tenants) land, though of course large areas belong to the National Trust, but from my point of view with two Collies there seemed to be sheep everywhere.

Hmmm, yes, I could have worded that better.  I didn't mean to imply that the Malvern-style penning was used in The Lakes.  As you say, there are sheep everywhere up there.  The pens are used on The Malverns to control where the livestock graze.  They need to be kept away from areas with rare wildflowers for example.  The area of land and number of livestock involved are tiny relative to the Lake District.

[Anglian]

Sorry I am the guilty nit picker but I replied in the original thread as I think so much of the layout. I would never know if the rolling stock is correct to the last detail (I suspect it is) but there were a few scenic details, including the sheep, that I did notice and that could be slightly tweaked, with relatively little effort, to look even more natural.

 

I've noted elsewhere how well modelled the trees are so forgive me – I'm not being a pedant just of the sake of it.

[Compound2632]

In the topic 'MRJ 254 Post-Pub....' at posts #79 & 80 (Which was actually to do with the AA Sign)

   http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/121599-mrj-254-post-publication-thread/page-4&do=findComment&comment=2722130

Nit-Picking makes reference that the Sheep are to spread out,

the 'offending' view (post #79 - but slightly broader) is repeated here :-

 

Sheep on Road - Small.jpg

 

So to check Nit-Picker's view, I looked through a few books I have and found the following pictures, which seem to vindicate the Nit-Picker's observations - Feck, I shall have to buy some more sheep, one's that match my emaciated sheep, well they have been on that road for 27 years.....

 

Sheep Movement #A - Small.jpg

 

Sheep Movement #E - Smaller.jpg

 

Sheep Movement #C.jpg

 

Sheep Movement #B.jpg

 

Sheep Movement #D.jpg

 

Yes, greater density of sheep - your way should be baa-ed.

[NHY 581]

I am monitoring this thread.........closely..........

[The Johnster]

Sheep are utterly evil.  They are a collective Borg-like intelligence plotting the overthrow and enslavement of humanity, only pretending to be stupid to lull us into a false sense of lanolin coated security.  Look, I mean really look, into their eyes and see the blackness of their souls, and be afraid, be a very fraid...

 

I model the South Wales Valleys, and my sheep are spread about all over the place, mostly where they shouldn't be.  If you are modelling a South Wales mining village and it's railway, there should be at least one of them in view wherever you look.  I suspect the two on my platform do not even have tickets!

 

On the real railway back in the 70s when I worked on it, sheep at Cwmbargoed had developed the habit of lifting the catches on coal wagon axleboxs, then opening the lids to help themselves to the grease, which they seemed to enjoy immensely.  The train would run about half a mile before coming to a completely seized up halt...

[The Johnster]

I don't think you've done too badly about the sheep. I've been helping out on my friend's sheep farm the last two years. When we drive small groups within the farm, along tracks with grassy banks, when there's no dog involved they do spread out. When there is a dog (as in your model), they will pack closer, but some will always decide the grazing is much much better where they now are (it's a sheep thing). So you get separated sheep grazing, like you have modelled and like one of the B&W photos you show.

If there's any niggle, your dog on the left is a bit too close. I'd expect the laggards to be running full tilt away from such close contact. Proper shepherds may well keep the dog behind them - the sheep know full well there is one about. Unless of course you want to model a stroppy ewe going face to face with the dog. Just rarely they'll feel so resistant that they'll attempt to head butt the dog!

Lovely modelling, btw.

'In the town shots, those sheep are seriously unhappy at being where they are, so have bunched very tightly.'  Given what happens next, not surprising.

[Bernard Lamb]

Sheep?

Call those puny things sheep?

Three of our finest local lads waiting for the females to finish lamming so that they can get back to work.

For those who do not recognize the breed they are Norfolk Horn.

Bernard

[Penlan]

Sheep?   Call those puny things sheep?

If your referring to my original photo, agreed, I have healthier sheep on the layout...

Incidentally, I found it difficult to source plenty of sheep just grazing, then a couple of  years ago there was a retailer at Cardiff Show who was selling them at 'Buy any 10 for £x's', so I picked 20 grazing  sheep.

In the first view, typical Sheep in The Valleys, wet and dirty...

Second view, the red (flowers?) is far more vivid than on the layout - But I am the local RBL Poppy Appeal Officer.

It should be yellow (buttercups) anyway at this time of year - it's scatter from a Card Making shop.

 

Edit - OK, I know what's going to happen now - somebody will tell me the Poppies will kill the Sheep.

 

 

Edited May 16, 2017 by Penlan

[phil_sutters]

If your flock is a bit short you could see if the Dolly cloning recipe is out there on the net.

[Rumblestripe]

Still happens.  I last read about one last year but I wouldn't be surprised if it happens more frequently.  Lots of sheep around and lots of dog owners.

 

Slightly OT - Sheep and cattle are currently being used to manage the tops of the Malvern Hills themselves and keep the land looking like it used to.  They are penned into areas using electric fences and help keep the unwanted plants like bracken in check.  These penned areas are moved around at intervals.  I suppose this is much like the Lake District but since the main parts of the Malvern Hills are no longer parts of farms it has been a conscious reintroduction rather than just part of the normal farming practice.

A few points, firstly to the person bemoaning the lack of freedom to let his dogs off the leash. Do not let your dog off the leash around livestock. I was hearing from a farmer only yesterday of an attack by a "family dog" on his flock that left twenty plus lambs dead. The family apparently simply walked away. Leaving the farmer with the corpses to collect and the cost to count.

 

There is one caveat to the instruction to keep your dog on the lead and that is where you find yourself in a field with cows and calves. Cows have been known to trample people who they think may be a threat to their young. If you are threatened by cows, release your dog, the cows will be more concerned at the presence of the dog (wolf!) and will protect their young from the dog. The dog should be quick enough to outrun the cows without problem, leaving you free to exit the field by the shortest possible route.

 

Stay safe and respect the countryside and those who make their living in it.

 

Less seriously, get your sheep breeds right, even at 1/76 you can tell the difference between, for example, a Swaledale and a Cheviot. Even if it is just getting the correct colour of face, fleece and legs!

 

On the subject of the sheep of the northern fells, in the Lake District you will principally see Herdwicks and some Swaledales. The Herdwicks are "hefted" to their land and are not fenced in but are allowed to graze the fells alone in the summer months taking their lambs with them to familiarise them with their land around this time of year. It's a fascinating subject and a little research will add to the authenticity of your model.

 

Oh and finally, can someone please make a decent set of model sheep some of the offerings are painfully thin, a good healthy lowland sheep is almost circular in cross section!

Edited May 16, 2017 by Rumblestripe

[Penlan]

If your flock is a bit short you could see if the Dolly cloning recipe is out there on the net.

Ah, yes, but I still have about 30 'grazing' Sheep awaiting to be let out of a box,

and once the layout is converted into a 'roundy-roundy', I shall need to keep the new grass down.

Edited May 16, 2017 by Penlan

[NHY 581]

Nothing like a bit of free range mutton..

[Zero Gravitas]

I wish to make a complaint. I've read this thread all the way through and there's no reference to sheep movements anywhere. Our dog thinks they are a delicious tasty snack when out for a walk - I personally thought they were the worst chocolate raisins I'd ever tasted.

[Orange Cat]

I wish to make a complaint. I've read this thread all the way through and there's no reference to sheep movements anywhere. Our dog thinks they are a delicious tasty snack when out for a walk - I personally thought they were the worst chocolate raisins I'd ever tasted.

The mint ones are all right.

 

https://www.pipershoney.com/products/302

[The Johnster]

Nothing like a bit of free range mutton..

 

Or, as I call it, out of town strange...

[The Johnster]

I wish to make a complaint. I've read this thread all the way through and there's no reference to sheep movements anywhere. Our dog thinks they are a delicious tasty snack when out for a walk - I personally thought they were the worst chocolate raisins I'd ever tasted.

Then you've never had rabbit droppings (and why should you?).  My evil elder sister convinced me that baked beans were rabbit droppings in tomato sauce when I was a rugrat; I still cannot eat them.  My logical brain knows they are baked beans, but my subconscious knows what they really are...

 

If you think that's bad, our mother, the one person a boy child should be able to trust above all others, convinced me when I was about 7 that there was such a thing as a gas powered tv, for people living in caravans or on boats.  It made complete sense to me; the gas flame would provide the light by which you could see Andy Pandy or whoever doing his stuff, and although it wouldn't be as good as our electric telly, it'd be ok for people in caravans or on boats.

 

Having found out the truth and been ridiculed for it a few years later, I was not about to accept that there was such a thing as a gas fridge...

 

Wish I'd had kids so I could mess with their heads!

Edited May 16, 2017 by The Johnster