Complete Newbie asking layout advice.

[andrex]

Dear All.I am completely new to the hobby.I have attended several shows across the years out of curiosity.I am now able to spend some time and a modest budget developing a layout.The appeal to me is the creative side,developing nostalgic settings and placing my favourite die cast  vehicles from the fifties and early sixties,my childhood, on a layout.This is where I need some help.I intend to utilise a small area available to me and that confines the layout to seven feet by two feet maximum.I have been looking at plans and think a branchline with goods yard, cattle dock and possibly a country halt type station would suffice.As I say my interest will be developing scenics but at the same time must offer a degree of shunting opportunities.

Could anyone suggest a good end to end layout and its operating potential in 00 gauge.

I hope that,s enough to allow you chaps to offer some advice.I do have a modelling background having spent over twenty years building and sailing radio control ships and boats.

Thanks for stopping by.Andy. 

[RexAshton]

Firstly welcome along. A good trawl through this and other forums and websites should provide lots of suggestions but one you might consider can be found in Iain Rice's book published by Wild Swan. Don't be put off by the term finescale. There is a lot of useful info on layout planning and construction and while much is aimed at finescale modelling there's nothing wrong with Peco track and current ready to run locos and stock. The plan I'm thinking of is called Elan and takes 6'6" x 1'9" including fiddle yard. Unfortunately I've lent my copy of the book out but maybe someone else could provide a scan of the plan.

Edited December 11, 2017 by RexAshton

[40034_Nick]

Use Peco Flexi track. Possibilities are endless. 

Use Track pins from USA. they are very hard to bend.

Don't forget to put cork underlay between track and baseboard. (like i did to start with :-( )

Don't be scared to take stuff apart and add lights, people and paint stuff.

Build your own platform from wood and paint it. 

[crazynitwit]

Use Peco Flexi track. Possibilities are endless.

Use Track pins from USA. they are very hard to bend.

Don't forget to put cork underlay between track and baseboard. (like i did to start with :-( )

Don't be scared to take stuff apart and add lights, people and paint stuff.

Build your own platform from wood and paint it.

Personally I don't tend to bother with a cork underlay as it loses all of its sound dampening capabilities once ballasted.

[smokebox]

Cork isn't great at sound deadening but can be used to help with forming realistic looking shoulders to the ballast.

 

Test the layout as you go along. Getting all the track laid and ballasted and then finding you get derailments at certain places or short circuits as locos pass over points is a real heart breaker.

 

This site http://www.freetrackplans.com may help with ideas.

Edited December 11, 2017 by smokebox

[The Johnster]

In the way of very general advice...

 

Work from the ground up, not from end to end, which can result in an inconsistent appearance.  Start with the baseboards, make sure they are level and solid, then lay the track (I do this directly to the baseboard, without cork or foam underlay), keeping level and making sure the joints are smooth and even.  Pin it down temporarily and not to firmly as an overdriven pin will distort the base and pull the rails out of gauge.  When you are satisfied, wire it up and test run it with a loco. 

 

Then you can glue it down with pva, ballast it and start on the scenery and the rest of the modelling.  Take your time, be patient and methodical; your plan, whatever it is, can easily be changed up until the time you get the pva out.  After this, things are a bit more set in stone, so use the time while you are getting to this stage to develop ideas about what you want the model to look like, what it is to include, and how it is to be controlled (DC or DCC)

 

Welcome to the madness and good luck, Andy!

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

....The appeal to me is the creative side,developing nostalgic settings and placing my favourite die cast  vehicles from the fifties and early sixties, my childhood, on a layout...

 As I read that the thought of a layout called 'The end of the line' sprang into my head. Transport of coal from a small mine, by narrow gauge with working tippler wagons and conveyor to enable loading of standard gauge wagons and r/c controlled road vehicles.

 

Let your imagination fly. I don't know if narrow gauge appeals, but in respect of there often beng far less demarcation between road and rail it might offer options that a standard gauge model doesn't.

[Nearholmer]

It's worth thinking hard about what 'moves' you, before going too far, because you will need strong motivation to complete anything, even a small layout, once the inevitable "teething troubles" of learning a new hobby strike.

 

Given your interest in road vehicles, for instance, do you want an excuse to have lots of them in the scene? If so, deeply rural may be l ess suitable than urban or suburban?

 

Did you grow up in the town or the country? That might make a difference to what presses the nostalgia button.

 

Whichever it is, in 4mm/ft (I'm assuming), 7ft x 2ft is enough room to create something, and Mr Rice's book recommended above is a good place to start.

 

If you gives a few more clues as to what moves you, I'm sure members here will make suggestions.

 

Good luck with it, Kevin

[andrex]

Thank You all for replying.You have each given me some things to think about.In answer to one post I am leaning towards a rural (or semi rural) setting.Having grown up a country boy, the son of a farm worker I recall riding on the tractor with my Dad to take the milk churns to meet the train at out nearest station about half a mile away.A fifteen minute bus ride in two directions took us to our chosen market town for a weekly shop.This would be around 1960.

Being drawn to the hobby by the artistic/creative side I have to confess my knowledge of railways and their operation is very limited.I therefore propose my layout to be fairly freelance but within the realms of reality.To feature oo scale die cast is a big plus.Even in the proposed setting I think I could get away with a country garage with a few motors for sale, rather like Goathland (Aidensfield) and farming dioramas would take care of the agricultural machinery and tractors I remember.

I have been looking at a lot of end to end type layouts on which the track plan looks fine but how do I be sure it will be operationally interesting.It only has to please me but has to be capable of giving satisfaction from shunting and sorting wagons.

I will leave it at that as I do not want to bore anyone and start making overlong posts which you chaps will be too bored to even look at. Much obliged to all who stuck with the ramblings of this newcomer and hope to get to know some of you better in the future.

Thanks,Andy. 

[Nearholmer]

One layout that you might want to look at, given your space, is "The Piano Line", devised about fifty years ago by a Reverend Heath.

 

I'm not suggesting a slavish copy, but the basic plan is very ingenious. There was an RMWeb thread about variations on the theme, which contained some very good ideas, here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/24517-time-to-tune-the-piano/

[Chamby]

One bit of advice I would give is to use the templates provided by Peco when planning your layout. Print them off, cut them out and play around with them until you’re happy.

 

Aim for nicely flowing trackwork. So design your track plan around the available track geometry, rather than trying to force it into something you have drawn freehand.

 

Buy a roll of cheap lining paper from your local DIY store (a couple of quid) and cut it into seven foot lengths, use these for drawing out your plans. You can create several versions, then revisit them a few days later and refine your plans over time until you get a good balance between railway and die cast display, that looks credible.

 

Use some of your models to help with the planning. The die cast vehicles will look best in locations that they will have been able to manoeuvre into, rather than improbably crammed into tight locations. How many wagons you want to fit in a siding will determine how long it needs to be. And remember that if you are doing a steam era branch terminus, you will need a run around loop long enough for however long your train is.

 

Above all, enjoy the process, and remember it’s not a race!

 

Phil.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Chamby

[Pete the Elaner]

Personally I don't tend to bother with a cork underlay as it loses all of its sound dampening capabilities once ballasted.

This is true if you use dilute PVA which seems to be the adhesive of choice for this task for many modellers. It soaks into the ballast & dries rock hard.

I think it is a poorly suited product for this reason.

 

There are alternatives though:

 

Copydex, which dries rubbery.

Wallpaper paste is available as flakes which can be crushed & added to the ballast, then sprayed with wetted water. It tends to shrink a little when dry though.

I have heard some using Johnson's Klear which I understand is a floor varnish, but I believe they have changed its formula.

There is also Ballast Magic.

 

All have their advantages & disadvantages, requiring slightly different methods of application, so try them on a small test piece first.

[hayfield]

Firstly welcome along. A good trawl through this and other forums and websites should provide lots of suggestions but one you might consider can be found in Iain Rice's book published by Wild Swan. Don't be put off by the term finescale. There is a lot of useful info on layout planning and construction and while much is aimed at finescale modelling there's nothing wrong with Peco track and current ready to run locos and stock. The plan I'm thinking of is called Elan and takes 6'6" x 1'9" including fiddle yard. Unfortunately I've lent my copy of the book out but maybe someone else could provide a scan of the plan.

 

 

Iain's books are a wonderful inspiration, but remember they are sketches and the turnouts and crossings are not based on any prototypical size or commercially available products

 

Another good reference are the CJ Freezer's books especially the one for smaller layouts.

 

For someone new to the hobby I would suggest using the Peco Streamline products, simply as the track formation can easily be altered re-using the parts, though I would go for code 75 rather than the set track. The reason being just as you get experience and more stock your requirements are likely to alter. For the first year I would just enjoy playing trains (for the want of a better word) just to explore options available from altering track formations, having a baseboard which will allow you to alter the track plan

[Flying Pig]

Nothing to do with track planning, but you might enjoy looking at Little Muddle and Pendon Museum.

[andrex]

Thanks again to all of you.Your replies are just the guidance and inspiration I need.Will peruse the suggested sites and grab a roll of lining paper and start playing around.I am replying immediately after reading this page so haven't yet looked for answers elsewhere.Can I ask about the track. Regardless of track code, are all  the points etc. compatible with all other track codes.

 

Andy. 

[Chamby]

Thanks again to all of you.Your replies are just the guidance and inspiration I need.Will peruse the suggested sites and grab a roll of lining paper and start playing around.I am replying immediately after reading this page so haven't yet looked for answers elsewhere.Can I ask about the track. Regardless of track code, are all  the points etc. compatible with all other track codes.

 

Andy.

 

All the track will be the right gauge at 16.5 mm but the different gauges are different heights. Code 75 is not as tall as Code 100 for example, it looks finer but is slightly less robust because of its thinner section. Use the code 100 if you are running old models, which can have coarser wheels so need the extra height. The code 75 will be fine for more recent stuff though. You can get a connector track from Peco to join the different types, or else raise the code 75 near the join using thin card, but it is usually easiest to stick with one type.

 

Some helpful FAQ’s about the different rail profiles are on Peco’s website, in the Technical Advice Bureau section.

 

Phil.

[The White Rabbit]

I intend to utilise a small area available to me and that confines the layout to seven feet by two feet maximum.I have been looking at plans and think a branchline with goods yard, cattle dock and possibly a country halt type station would suffice.As I say my interest will be developing scenics but at the same time must offer a degree of shunting opportunities.

 

 

With the 7x2 max dimensions quoted, is that the limit for a permanent structure or the total maximum space? If the former, it's always possible to have a portable fiddle yard, which might be handy if access is limited.

 

 

... one you might consider can be found in Iain Rice's book published by Wild Swan. Don't be put off by the term finescale. There is a lot of useful info on layout planning and construction and while much is aimed at finescale modelling there's nothing wrong with Peco track and current ready to run locos and stock. The plan I'm thinking of is called Elan and takes 6'6" x 1'9" including fiddle yard. Unfortunately I've lent my copy of the book out but maybe someone else could provide a scan of the plan.

 

If you Google "Iain Rice Elan", you can see various images of the trackplan. 

 

From what the OP's said, I get the impression if built along Elan's lines, the conventional approach would suggest this layout would be best viewed from the scenic side, so if the sector plate and cassette side is against a wall or otherwise inaccessible, operating could be difficult. OK, the layout could always be turned 180 degrees to make operation easier but that would have an impact on how the scenery might look. As others have suggested, I'd make good use of mock-ups, rough card buildings and Peco's point templates - https://www.peco-uk.com/page.asp?id=pointplans - and something for trees and hedges to make sure it's going to look right in your eyes.  

[Nearholmer]

Yes, a few more clues about the space limitation would help greatly, because there is a lot of difference between 7x2 including FY, and 7x2 plus FY, and if a temporary FY can be used, it's vital to understand where it can be put.

[hayfield]

Thanks again to all of you.Your replies are just the guidance and inspiration I need.Will peruse the suggested sites and grab a roll of lining paper and start playing around.I am replying immediately after reading this page so haven't yet looked for answers elsewhere.Can I ask about the track. Regardless of track code, are all  the points etc. compatible with all other track codes.

 

Andy. 

Andy

 

You can download plans from the Peco website of their turnouts and crossings, these may assist with your planning

[bbishop]

Andy,

 

Are there any local exhibitions that you can get to?

 

Wander around, see if anything inspires you, then when it is quiet (mid afternoon) the operators should be able to answer your questions.  But remember, there are differences in building an exhibition and a home layout.

 

Bill

[MarcD]

Firstly welcome to the hobby. I would like to echo the comments above. The advice I give to people how ask me things at shows is:-

1. If you are stuck with anything Ask! there isn't any thing called a stupid question apart from the one that has not been asked. On the whole modellers don't bite, there is the odd one but they never have layouts at shows. You can learn a lot at shows you might even get to operate some layouts if you ask, most shows have people who are demonstrating building things they are there to help and pass on their skills. 
2. Don't go big on your first attempt. Getting something to the stage that your happy with it is easier if its small. If you have "finished" something in a year then your probably won't get board with it and it will give to encouragement to go back and have another go at something slight bigger or better.
3. Simple is sometime more fun than complicated. and sometimes less is more. ie a small shunting layout will give you hours of fun both building and operating.
4. Most importantly "HAVE FUN" both building and operating it is you hobby.

 

Can I also recommend Iain Rice's latest offering Building Cameo Layouts, It shows the whole process from planning to building and even displaying if that's what you want to do. 

 

Also The National Library of Scotland have scanned all the 12inch to the mile maps for the UK

 

http://maps.nls.uk/geo/find/#zoom=5&lat=56.0000&lon=-4.0000&layers=101&b=1&point=0,0

 

This might help you find a prototype for your layout that can be squeezed into the space you have with a little artistic licence.

 

Marc  

[andrex]

Thanks again all,

My intended layout will be a total space of 7x2 with no fiddle yard.It is likely to be a countryside setting operated from the front and operationally I wish to enjoy an hour or so of shunting between modelling projects Thanks to  a reply here  I have now discovered and decided that I will use Peco 100 track.The reason being that I may start off with some 2nd hand wagons etc and understand the wheel depths are suited to this.This first layout will be a large learning curve.Do I buy a new controller? or will 2nd hand suffice. which would you suggest suitable for a simple shunting layout.

I will be offline for a couple of days but when I get back online I will try and upload a track plan I have found.I think it can will suit my space and only needs 4 turnouts or possibly or I may stretch it to 5.

BTW I am intending to visit Doncaster Show(only an hour away from me) in February and hope to be ready to start buying a few bits to get me started.

Cheers chaps. Back in two or three days.