Grey Duchess of Abercorn lettering

[Wolseley]

I have recently bought a battle scarred Hornby Dublo Duchess I was intending to restore and repaint in blue-grey as the Duchess of Abercorn and I have a question about the lettering and numbering used.  I searched the internet looking for a photograph of the locomotive in this livery and couldn't find one (which is not the same as saying there isn't one out there - I might just not have seen the obvious).

 

Wikipedia (which, of course is not always correct) says that the lettering and numbering were sans-serif, yet in every model I can find a photograph of, the letters and numbers have serifs.  Admittedly most, but not all, of these models are by Wrenn, who did some rather strange things with liveries from time to time, but it has left me wondering which is correct, serifs or sans-serif, and were the characters shaded?

[Steamport Southport]

When you say blue grey do you mean the experimental blue of the 1948 - 1951 period, or the actual light grey it (or possibly one of the other class members) received around the same time.  I remember seeing a photo in one of my books, but not readily available right now...

 

It was an experimental livery applied in 1946 before the 1946 Lined Black was adopted. I would assume it had the post war lettering.

 

 

It lasted until October 1948 when it received an experimental lined BR Black according to Wiki. Repainted BR Green in 1952.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LMS_Coronation_Class#Table_of_LMS_liveries

 

 

I'll have a look at my LMS books later to see if I can find any photographs or further details.

 

I would ignore Wrenn though as I believe it was a more blueish colour.

 

 

 

Jason

[Steamport Southport]

Here's a photo. Post March 1946 as it has smoke deflectors.

 

Linked due to copyright.

 

http://taillampphotography.com/Graphics%20Used%20For%20Website/STEAM/COLLECTION/LONDON%20MIDLAND%20REGION/MKLRaBRLM01215UK.jpg

 

 

http://taillampphotography.com/1960%20PRINCESS%20CORONATION%20CLASS.htm

 

 

 

Jason

[LMS2968]

A report at the time stated that the digits were 'plain gold'. I suspect they were similar to those introduced for the 1946 black livery, but without the maroon edgings.

[Wolseley]

Here's a photo. Post March 1946 as it has smoke deflectors.

 

Linked due to copyright.

 

http://taillampphotography.com/Graphics%20Used%20For%20Website/STEAM/COLLECTION/LONDON%20MIDLAND%20REGION/MKLRaBRLM01215UK.jpg

 

 

http://taillampphotography.com/1960%20PRINCESS%20CORONATION%20CLASS.htm

 

 

 

Jason

 

 

Interesting.  Assuming the locomotive is painted blue-grey in this photograph, which it probably is given that it is lettered LMS and has smoke deflectors, it looks like the colour might have been a bit darker than the colour given as a likely example on Wikipedia, although maybe not as dark as the shade used by Ace trains for their 0 gauge model.  It does seem, however, that nobody knows exactly what the colour was, which means no-one will be able to say with any certainty that whatever colour I use is wrong.....

[TheSignalEngineer]

Another link may be of interest. https://flic.kr/p/4x5hzv

[Wolseley]

The darker blue/grey actually makes more sense for a locomotive livery (especially given the state of maintenance and cleaning at the time) than the lighter colour suggested by Wikipedia.  Perhaps the contributor to Wikipedia was influenced in their guess at the colour by the WD grey that was applied to some locomotives in the 1940s.  It is also a quite attractive and unusual shade of blue.

 

Thinks: it's a pity I can't edit the thread title to change Grey to Blue, as the colour has turned out to be more blue than grey.....

[slilley]

When you say blue grey do you mean the experimental blue of the 1948 - 1951 period, or the actual light grey it (or possibly one of the other class members) received around the same time.  I remember seeing a photo in one of my books, but not readily available right now...

 

Hi there

 

When you say light grey, you are not thinking of photographic grey that was used for official shots of locos before they went back into traffic?  I am looking through Essery & Jenkinson Illustrated History of LMS Locomotives Volume 5 which covers these locos and there is no mention of a grey livery in service. There is a picture in Mannion's The Duchess Stanier@s Masterpiece on page 119 of 6235 in photo grey after it had had the streamlined casings removed.

 

Simon

[LMS2968]

No, it was a one-off gloss bluish grey, lined out on one side, not on the other. The photographic grey was a different thing altogether and invariably matt.

 

By the way, 6229 entered traffic for running in purposes in photographic grey, then went back to Crewe to be repainted in crimson lake and renumbered 6220 for her North American tour.

[Steamport Southport]

I have seen it described as Slate Grey, can't remember the source though.

 

It definitely ran like this in service.

 

http://taillampphotography.com/Graphics%20Used%20For%20Website/STEAM/COLLECTION/LONDON%20MIDLAND%20REGION/MKLRaBRLM01215UK.jpg

 

As did Jubilee 5573 Newfoundland. Allowing for artistic licence and lighting this is about the shade I've always imagined it to be.

 

http://www.robinbarnes.net/gallery9.html

 

 

 

Jason

[Wolseley]

 

 

it was recalled by some as of a shade similar to that used by the RAF on its road vehicles

 

Which is probably as accurate a description as it is possible to get after the passage of so much time.  It also gives me a pretty good idea as to how to source the most appropriate shade of blue/grey.

[Wolseley]

Hi there

 

When you say light grey, you are not thinking of photographic grey that was used for official shots of locos before they went back into traffic?

 

No.  Definitely the experimental blue/grey colour as applied by the LMS to the two locomotives mentioned above.  I started off by referring to it as grey because I had no idea that it was more blue than grey and it was also a bit darker than I thought as well.