Ray Von Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 Hi all, Has anyone any suggestions regarding how to best site an arcing effect circuit such as this one? I've found some info on the forum, mainly biased to 'OO' gauge. However, 'N' gauge presents its own problems. Disguising the LED's and reed switches on the tracks as much as is possible is my main objective, I also wondered if anyone has any "bright ideas" re: placement of the LED's, should they be central to the track, to one side, inside or outside of the rail?? I should mention that the layout I would like to use this circuit on is already ballasted and has third rail in situ. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted November 27, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 27, 2018 Will the LEDs fit between the running rail and 3rd rail in a sleeper end gap? Probably most prototypical location.... Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Von Posted November 27, 2018 Author Share Posted November 27, 2018 No, unfortunately, they're pretty hefty - about 4mm across each and there are three of them in a line of about 15mm - 20mm long. I could only site them there if I drilled (very carefully) from the underside of the base board and had the LED tips flush with the surface. I'm not sure much of the light effect would be visible... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loickebros Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 How about experimenting with fibre optics then you could have the led's under the baseboard. Dave 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Von Posted November 27, 2018 Author Share Posted November 27, 2018 That's very interesting, fibre optics tend to direct light in one direction (ie "upwards" in this case) don't they? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul80 Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 Could you change the LED's to something like a 2mm chimney type, they would be easier to hide. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted November 27, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 27, 2018 (edited) That's very interesting, fibre optics tend to direct light in one direction (ie "upwards" in this case) don't they?Not if you stick/weld a bead to the end of the fibre, it’ll have a 360 deg output. Alternatively I have seen the fibre optic end melted slightly with a soldering iron to make a flat end which can also disperse the light. Edited November 27, 2018 by boxbrownie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Von Posted November 27, 2018 Author Share Posted November 27, 2018 I had envisaged smaller LED's, I'm not sure of the technicalities re: swapping the LED's directly for more scale-friendly ones... I'm more than happy with the effect, they work very well. It's just that in 'N' gauge the LED's are the size of pillar boxes and the reed switches are about 8' long, to scale! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIK Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 (edited) Hi, EDIT some magnets are available now that are END EDIT much more powerful now than when reed switches first appeared so could you look into using powerful magnets and putting the reed switches under the sleepers (parallel to the rails)?. Regards Nick (using infrared sensors reflecting off aluminium foil under EMU bogies to trigger third rail arc flashes) PS It's been noticed the big arcs occur when a EMU leaves an electrified rail under a lot of power. Edited November 28, 2018 by NIK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 Reminds me of when I was a kid with my Lima train set on the floor, steel track back then and there was always lots of blues flashes as the engines sped around the layout, quite effective when the lights were turned off...not much use to you I know but I thought I'd share. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted November 28, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 28, 2018 (edited) Reminds me of when I was a kid with my Lima train set on the floor, steel track back then and there was always lots of blues flashes as the engines sped around the layout, quite effective when the lights were turned off...not much use to you I know but I thought I'd share. One of my best kid train memories was a Triang Electra running around in the dark sparking off the overhead catenary Triang brought out with the set, funny how little things stick and make such a big impression forever. Edited November 28, 2018 by boxbrownie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted November 28, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 28, 2018 Got a leaflet along with a delivery the other day and I remember this place http://www.train-tech.com/ they do lighting effects, might be the easier route for you? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul80 Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 (edited) Is the option the simulate spark via bright LED's still on option on ESU Sound Decoders, I seem to remember seeing it done a few years ago, so the LED's would be in the loco, installed near the bogie and the sound decoder synced the flash to the sound of the flash. No help to the OP, just wondered if it's still an option with ESU decoders. Edited November 30, 2018 by Paul80 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Von Posted November 28, 2018 Author Share Posted November 28, 2018 Thanks for that link, boxbrownie http://www.train-tech.com/ I love the sound modules! Maybe a project for another day... On the subject of wheel-sparks, I remember as a kid sending my "Smokey Joe" hurtling round the track at full tilt and sparks flying, with several unfortunate OO figures positioned in and around the goods wagons. (They were meant to be Hobo's and the train was the one from "Emperor of the North!" I digress... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 There should be no problem fitting smaller LEDs. Just put them in place of the larger ones. If they are the wrong way run just turn then round. Do them one at a time to avoid problems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 I have a plan to do this by siting a blue LED as near as possible to the breaks in the conductor rails where the flashes occur (pointwork for example) and using a short isolated section of the running rail as a trigger. The idea was the power bogie* wheels passed over the section it would be shorted to the main section. Ensuring this was the common return would avoid power supply problems. Obviously the non-power bogies would have to have their wheels isolated from each other to avoid undesired flashes. The circuit would be simple just a power supply and the LED(s). It might have required some delay circuitry to avoid double flashes - I didn't get that far as yet... Some means to avoid false triggering by metal wheels would have to be devised - a piece of plastic either end of the trigger rail maybe. Working third (and fourth for LT) collectors are a possibility, but probably not in N scale. * The bogies with collector shoes, not necessarily actually having a motor, but having some electrical connection between the wheels Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Von Posted November 29, 2018 Author Share Posted November 29, 2018 I had a go at fitting the lighting effect circuit today, and broke the reed switch!! After much muttering, and questioning the justice of the universe, I opted to try using an IRDOT from another layout. Despite having no idea how to make it work, I achieved just that. There is a slight peculiarity, in that the lights flash once and then again a few seconds after. Happily this coincides with the whole length of an EMU passing the LED's. I will probably fit a reed switch at a later date - although with more care. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 I had a go at fitting the lighting effect circuit today, and broke the reed switch!! After much muttering, and questioning the justice of the universe, I opted to try using an IRDOT from another layout. Despite having no idea how to make it work, I achieved just that. There is a slight peculiarity, in that the lights flash once and then again a few seconds after. Happily this coincides with the whole length of an EMU passing the LED's. I will probably fit a reed switch at a later date - although with more care. Reed switches are mounted in a glass envelope and therefore very fragile*. Seeing the IRDOT works, I'd leave well alone. "If it ain't broke, dont fix it!" (The First Law of Engineering"). * And leave lots of nasty fragments. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Von Posted November 30, 2018 Author Share Posted November 30, 2018 That's very true! I've already ordered (10) reed switches for a couple of quid online though, and I would like to have a go at fitting them. I had no idea just how fragile they would be! I'd be interested to hear if anyone has any tips or suggestions for reinforcing / protecting them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul80 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Wht was the circuit used in the O/P, was it home made or a bought module, not seen anything like it before. Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Von Posted November 30, 2018 Author Share Posted November 30, 2018 It is a bought module, from Heathcote Electronics. As is the IRDOT circuit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul80 Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 (edited) That's very true! I've already ordered (10) reed switches for a couple of quid online though, and I would like to have a go at fitting them. I had no idea just how fragile they would be! I'd be interested to hear if anyone has any tips or suggestions for reinforcing / protecting them. I'd protect and mount them with sellotape* or insulating tape and use flexible wire to connect ensuring it was free to move (possibly a spiral of wire if there's room. It wouldn't need a lot, just enough to relieve the strain of the glass, and not linger with the soldering iron. * A trade mame used generically. Any make will do, but I'd avoid the very cheap stuff that doesn't stick properly and soon loses what little adhesion it had in the first place. It is very good at sticking to itself however. SWMBO insists on buying the wretched stuff! Edited December 1, 2018 by Il Grifone Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 (edited) A very small tip when working with reed switches. If you need to bend the wires at each end it can be done. However just bending with no technique is likely to crack the glass. It's easy - just hold the wire close to the glass with a pair of snipe-nosed pliers and the wire can be bent through a right angle (the usual need) without a problem. Hold the wire straight with the pliers and bend the wire with your thumb outside them. Chaz Edited December 1, 2018 by chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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