LMS coach in Russia?

[melmerby]

The loco is a SO18 

 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/17/Steam_locomotive_SO_18-3100.JPG/1280px-Steam_locomotive_SO_18-3100.JPG

 

Next one numerically

 

Keith

Edited January 22, 2019 by melmerby

[Johann Marsbar]

 

I doubt if any of these were built or converted to standard gauge, so the photo appears to be somewhere no further west than the Soviet border with Poland, Slovakia or Romania.

 

John.

 

Don't forget that Russian gauge extended as far as Berlin at the end of the war as some lines were converted as they pushed west into Germany. Don't have any info to hand as to what routes were involved and whether this was the case in other parts of Germany/Poland as well, or how long these converted lines lasted before reverting to standard gauge

[Caledonian]

I don't know about a Jinty but they also found a Dean Goods that was left behind at Dunkirk. They loved it and used it on local trip working. I say local trip working. I believe it was so liked and trusted that it got as far as Vienna.

Back on topic. WD Set 21, formed of former LMS stock, was left behind at Dunkirk and certainly got as far as Hamburg. If you look at the top right of the coach you can see a patch of a different shade. I have a photo of such a coach with a German tailboard fitted and it looks like a variation of a tailboard in the photo. I thought we got the set back in 1945, so a date would be of great interest.

Bernard 

 

Wandering off again, the fate of the WD Dean Goods and Jintys was a bit more complicated.

 

Some were left in the "custody" of the French Railways and reclaimed at the war's end - the Deans were promptly scrapped. However those actually captured by the German army were taken into service, received new cabs with side windows and at least one ended up on the Russian Front. None came home.

 

Eight Jintys went to France of which five came home and unlike the Deans were returned to service. Of the three "lost" ones, it was thought that at least one was disposed of by being deliberately run into Dieppe harbour, but if it was the French will have fished it out again as a hazard to navigation. At any rate the Germans appear to have ended up with at least two of them. There was a possible sighting of one at a dump in Schleswig Holstein in 1951 and another was photographed at Berlin-Tempelhof in 1953, still displaying Wermacht markings

[John_Miles]

There was a link through Iran to Russia which was operated using 8Fs. Could the carriage be somewhere in Southern Russia?

[adb968008]

Back in 2000, before the Fusti museum opened I paid $20 got a firing course behind 109.109 on a Mainline passenger working in Budapest, Hungary.

 

At the end of the day they took me to the rotting loco shed behind what is today’s museum, in it was a UK built steam crane looking rough but clearly marked with LMS axle boxes and next to it a black painted very dilapidated LMS BG.

 

The picture on page 1 looks like an LMS BG, right down to the grab handles on the side, compare that picture to this 1939 example..

http://www.cs.rhrp.org.uk/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=740

 

A coach without brakes, drawbar hook being regauged to 5ft would seem a little desperate.

 

PKP lost a bunch of locos to Ukraine on the movement of the Polish border westwards, not to mention German locos abandoned when Poland lost the city of Lviv to Russia (today Ukraine) in 1945. At that time many locos were regauged 5’. Could it be an abandoned coach in Ukraine, postwar awaiting scrap rather than regauging... hence the lines could be a mix of gauge in what could be a scrap line ?

 

So it’s not beyond possibility one got a hundred miles or so further on from Hungary, as for sure ones taken a slow 1000 mile journey already to get to Budapest.

 

If like the Hungarian crane, the LMS BG went with it as a storesvan, could that make sense ?

I think I’ve seen a UK built crane in Poland too but I cannot be sure.

Edited January 23, 2019 by adb968008

[DavidB-AU]

There was a link through Iran to Russia which was operated using 8Fs. Could the carriage be somewhere in Southern Russia?

The Trans-Iranian Railway didn't go all the way into Russia, it ran to Bandar Shah (now called Bandar Torkaman) on the Caspian Sea. All the goods was then carried by road to Turkmenistan or transferred to ships. But the northern division was operated by the Soviets during WW2 which is why I wondered if they brought any of their own locos.

 

Cheers

David

[Corbs]

AFAIK a Jinty was in use in the Dresden area in 1953, after being captured by the Germans in 1940.

 

I would have loved to know what The Germans thought of it

 

Caption is:

This one, OKH-In 10, (presumably former) WD No. 8, photographed in RAW Tempelhof, West Berlin in October 1953. Apparently it had a brake overhaul on May 5th, 1944 at Cottbus

Edited January 24, 2019 by Corbs

[roythebus]

S

 

France was air-brake, as was most of the rest of Europe; the most noticeable exception being Spain, which used vacuum brakes until fairly recently.

Spain didn't have to worry about through running until recently.  Presumably Portugal had vac brakes as well?

Edited January 24, 2019 by roythebus