Improving PECO points

[Savoyard]

As a result of a thread on the Gauge O Guild about improving PECO points I came up with the following low cost method to improve the look of the points.

 

 Firstly a before and after photo.

 

 

The converted point on the right is an older point without the box so needed little work to improve the look of the sleepers.

 

The first step is to remove the actual box.

 

 

 

Then remove the point blades and the tie bar.

 

 

 

Next remove the excess plastic around the sleepers

 

 

 

Then the tags on the bottom of the point blades are removed.

 

 

 

Next pieces of old sleepers are cut to size to fill the gaps, the height of the piece on the left is reduced to fit on top of the strip in the middle.

 

 

 

The pieces are glued in place.

 

 

 

The sleepers will need some tidying up and filling when the track is weathered and ballasted.

 

 

 

 

The next stage is to cut two pieces of double sided copper clad to 60 mm lengths.

 

 

 

The height of the copper clad pieces were reduced by about 1 mm. The marks show where the holes will be, the centre mark will also be hole for the point motor rod, though on this first conversion I used a small brass loop soldered to the copper clad.

 

The holes are 14.4 mm from from the centre making a gap between blades of 29 mm,.The original conversion was 28 mm but I tried 30 mm to reduce the gap between the point blade and the rail, but it was a little too small for some locos so 29 mm was a good compromise. 

 

 

 

 

The top is rounded to improve the look and will also stop the pin making contact with the copper clad and preventing a possible short. The holes were made using a .7 mm drill bit.

 

 

 

Next two small brass pins are placed in the holes and the bottom is crimped and cut.

 

 

 

 Using an old sleeper I made a jig to fit the new tie bar. This made it easier to position the tie bar for soldering to the point blades.  

 

 

 

 

The jig with tie bar ready to be soldered.

 

 

 

 

The second tie bar is fitted in the same way.

 

 

 

 

On the point above  I used a piece of brass to provide a loop for the point motor rod but on the latest version I drilled a .7 mm hole in the middle and used this instead which improves the appearance further.

 

  

 

I have tested the various points several times and they work perfectly, I use slow motion point motors, in this case SMAILS (Tortoise point motors with a DCC accessory decoder built in) and so there is no excess strain on the copper clad, I don't know if this would be the case with a solenoid point motor.

 

I am very pleased with the results and for very little outlay and about a hours worth of time the look of the PECO points is greatly improved. I only have another twelve to convert!

 

 

 

 

[doilum]

And better still: £15 is the going rate for a Peco point with an already dodgy tie bar / final sleepers!

[Barnaby]

Fantastic description "show how" and work done Peter.

 

Regards

[Savoyard]

I'd taken off the excess box on one of my curved points so today I replaced the plastic tie bar and it works OK.

 

[Savoyard]

I tried a different method for the sleepers between the tie bars, instead of trimming the existing sleepers I used sleepers from scrap pieces of track. Here is the method I used.

 

Firstly I trimmed the sleepers

 

 

 

I trimmed just one part of the original sleeper which will need filling. I removed the existing chairs on the donor sleepers.

 

 

I then glued the PECO replacement chairs to the donor sleepers.

 

 

The result looks a lot better.

 

And with the tie bars fitted.

 

I will use this method from now on, I may even redo the existing conversions.

[hayfield]

Peter

 

What an excellent modification of a RTR turnout and certainly makes for a much better looking turnout.  I do like the fact that you are using the Peco Indvidulay track components, I have found in the past using the different chairs and timbers to great effect where Peco's geometry does not work 

 

A suggestion for further improvements of the Peco products are firstly the switch blades. which should stop on the slide chair, not between timbers.

 

A more difficult issue to resolve is that at the other end of the turnout the rails are a tad too short and the last timber of a turnout should be straight not angled

 

Thanks for sharing your ideas which greatly improve the products

[Happy Hippo]

On 20/10/2020 at 15:51, doilum said:

And better still: £15 is the going rate for a Peco point with an already dodgy tie bar / final sleepers!

Not for the 7 mm one as described

 

 

A new one is £46.

[doilum]

17 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

Not for the 7 mm one as described

 

 

A new one is £46.

I think I paid less than £25 for a pair on the ET stand at Telford last year ( might have been Doncaster!!). These were the basis of Frydale. Similar bargains are to be had on eBay from time to time. Given that the rest of a Peco point is pretty indestructible, all you need is a track gauge / pair of calipers and the above instructions for a wallet friendly point. I found that the main thing was to ensure that the switch rails remain level with the stock rails at all times. Frydale has a ultra simple pull rod control system with a slide switch mounted beneath the tie bar providing both locking and polarity switching.

[Happy Hippo]

12 minutes ago, doilum said:

I think I paid less than £25 for a pair on the ET stand at Telford last year ( might have been Doncaster!!). These were the basis of Frydale. Similar bargains are to be had on eBay from time to time. Given that the rest of a Peco point is pretty indestructible, all you need is a track gauge / pair of calipers and the above instructions for a wallet friendly point. I found that the main thing was to ensure that the switch rails remain level with the stock rails at all times. Frydale has a ultra simple pull rod control system with a slide switch mounted beneath the tie bar providing both locking and polarity switching.

I hand build my point work from Peco rail, chairs and my own timber sleepers which is cheaper still!

 

I currently have 7 fb Peco points which were stripped from an old exhibition layout.  The tie bars will be replaced along a similar system to Peter's.  

 

It's the hinge type arrangement that takes all the load off the joint between the switch blade and the stretched bar that is so good.

 

I've used the MM1 stretcher bars on a small layout and they look which do look very nice, but I still prefer the rotary arrangement the hinge allows.

 

All my point work is built to either be hand operated with a push rod system, or from servo/slomo motor.

 

Personally I wouldn't bother with the delicate surgery to fill in the holes in the doctored sleepers.  A bag of the Peco sleeper strip and a pack of their slide bar chairs would do the job a bit quicker. 

 

However, that's all personal to my stuff:  Peter's work is a definite improvement over the original, and I'll certainly be going down a similar route with the Peco points I have in the scrap box.

 

[Peter Eaton]

Hi.

Very refreshing to see a comprehensive step by step guide.

With then the following help on still improving  the guide.

probably making a more reliable point at the end of the day!

 

Peter

 

[Savoyard]

I wish people would stop giving me ideas! 

 

John would something like this look better.

 

 

I took out one sleeper at the end and moved them down and spaced them out a little.

 

I must admit I was wondering about this the other day after building the Greenwood Model Railway three way point which I have nearly completed to replace a Marcway three way.

 

 

On this one I will keep the original tie bar in the middle but use my version on the end.

 

 

[doilum]

In a perfect world, should the sleepers either side of the tie bar be closer together and/ or of thicker timber? Not a criticism of the preceding work but getting the most out of a budget point.

[Savoyard]

 

27 minutes ago, doilum said:

In a perfect world, should the sleepers either side of the tie bar be closer together and/ or of thicker timber? Not a criticism of the preceding work but getting the most out of a budget point.

 

I was wondering what the spacing should be but it seems PECO points are a real compromise in a lot of areas it's knowing when to stop tweaking them without more or less building it from scratch.

 

I must admit whilst the last mod improves the look even more, on reflection I am not sure I want to be moving all the point motors on my shed layout to accommodate the mod as the original mod gives a reasonable look for what I need, if I was starting again I would probably do a lot more.

 

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, Savoyard said:

I wish people would stop giving me ideas! 

 

John would something like this look better.

 

 

I took out one sleeper at the end and moved them down and spaced them out a little.

 

I must admit I was wondering about this the other day after building the Greenwood Model Railway three way point which I have nearly completed to replace a Marcway three way.

 

 

On this one I will keep the original tie bar in the middle but use my version on the end.

 

 

 

 

Looks better, though with what you have said, cut the blades shorter and solder the cut off bits into the gap in the stock rail

 

The Greenwood 3 way looks superb but the first set of switch rails are too short

[brossard]

I'll throw in my 2p and put on my pedant cap:  Turnout timbers are 12" wide while plain track sleepers are 10" wide. 

 

John

[Savoyard]

I must admit John I did consider that but went for the complicated option, back to the drawing board! 

 

I am pleased with the 3 way point and that short blade is a problem, I also bought a normal point so I will probably redo that area with track from that point. The frogs come ready built so I just built around them but the point blade needs at least a couple more chairs, so another back to the drawing board!

 

 

[Savoyard]

 

Having looked at the three way, I am considering cutting the pre-built frog section after the second sleeper from the left, this will give the smallest blade a decent anchor point.

 

Having weighed up the options on the second prototype I think I'll revert back to the original, there is a danger of making what was meant to be a fairly simple modification to improve the appearance into something more complex and will still be a compromise.

 

Edited October 22, 2020 by Savoyard

[hayfield]

55 minutes ago, Savoyard said:

 

Having looked at the three way, I am considering cutting the pre-built frog section after the second sleeper from the left, this will give the smallest blade a decent anchor point.

 

Having weighed up the options on the second prototype I think I'll revert back to the original, there is a danger of making what was meant to be a fairly simple modification to improve the appearance into something more complex and will still be a compromise.

 

 

 

For a hinge I use the Exactoscale brass functionable fishplate. Soldering it only to the common crossing, leaving the switch rail loose. It works very well

[Savoyard]

I decided to put longer blades on the three way using blades from another kit I had spare, I reduced the size of the frog by two sleepers and this gives a better anchor for the shortest blade.

 

Here is the finished point in place with the modified tie bars on both points.

 

 

It is now in place on the layout and I have been testing it and it seems to be working quite reasonably it just needs some fine tuning but it is still better than the previous Marcway three way.

 

I have halted conversion on the other points whilst I wait for some PECO Individulay sleepers to arrive from Kernow Models to arrive and I will re do the existing conversions with the sleepers to avoid all that filling and filing, it will also make the rest of the conversion easier.

 

I just have some track to finish off as I had to relay the track around the new point and tonight I might actually do something unusual and run some trains! 

[Savoyard]

Today I've experimented with an alternative to double sided copper clad.

 

I bought some bamboo wooden sticks which are 400 x 10 x 2 mm long so I cut some 60 x 3 x 2 mm tie bars, 2 mm is a little thicker than the copper clad but here is the first proof of concept.

 

 

I've also done a little mod and filed a grove where the top of the pins rest, this makes sure the track the blades are always the same height as the rail.

 

I've also used PECO Indervidulay Wooden Timbers and chairs on the sleepers between the ties and it looks a lot better and accurate, I may replace the 3rd sleeper from the left if I can't tidy it up. 

 

I've ordered some coffee stirrers that are 1.5 mm thick and they arrive tomorrow so I will see if they look better before converting the rest which will also give me time to test this new wooden version.

Edited October 29, 2020 by Savoyard