Selextric

[CFL]

Hi all, I just made a bid on a Trix loco which the seller marked as DCC-/-Sx decoder. Now I have a Gaugemaster Prodigy² to run my DCC layout but upon checking up I see Sx is Selextric and unique to Trix/Märklin. What I need to know, and can't find out is if the Guagemaster and Sx are compatible? If not I have a problem and may have to beg the seller to withdraw my bid.

Here's hoping you can help,

Ian

[ITG]

Not a clue, but try searching on this website, as I quickly (out of curiosity) found this thread which  seems relevant....

 

 

[WIMorrison]

The loco *should* switch to DCC when you use it on a DCC layout.

[CFL]

I'm wary of the word *should* as it used by second-hand car salesmen!

Joking aside the loco is a modern one and the seller claims it to be brand new so I would go along with the idea of it being switchable and even switching itself automatically.

In the meantime I have sent a mail to Gaugemaster asking their opinion, when I get a reply I will gloss over where they try to sell me one of their chips and put the rest of the reply here.

Fingers crossed, I want that BR18 for my Rheingold Express.

[WIMorrison]

I have a friend that has dozens of Minitrix locos and they are all DCC/SX - they have all switched to DCC on first use and I recall there was also a way to make them change to DCC when they had been used in SX but I can’t currently recall it.

[GoingUnderground]

Selectrix (note the spelling) was a proprietorial digital system introduced by Trix in Germany in the 1980s. It was discontinued by Trix following the takeover of German Trix by Marklin over 20 years ago, but I believe that one or two other manufacturers in Continental Europe took it up as the Selectrix (SX) was developed by Doehler & Haas and Trix licensed it.

 

Selectrix only decoders cannot be used with a DCC only command station like a Gaugemaster, but it can be used with a multiprotocol command station like the ESU ECoS.

 

If the decoder in your loco can operate on Selectrix or DCC then you should be OK with your Gaugemaster, but do try to find a manual for the decoder if you can in case it needs to be switched from Selectrix to DCC.  I don't know if this manual would be appropriate https://doehler-haass.de/cms/media/pdf/DH05A_DH10A_en.pdf

It does say that Doehler & Haas SX/DCC decoders don't automatically switch between SX and DCC.

[CFL]

Sorry about the spelling, I must have been thinking of my kid brother's Scalextric.

One thing of note is that the seller called it DCC - / - Sx which hints at it being both systems capable. Older Trix digital locos are all marked Sx, as if they only work with that system.

[WIMorrison]

1 hour ago, GoingUnderground said:

Selectrix (note the spelling) was a proprietorial digital system introduced by Trix in Germany in the 1980s. It was discontinued by Trix following the takeover of German Trix by Marklin over 20 years ago, but I believe that one or two other manufacturers in Continental Europe took it up as the Selectrix (SX) was developed by Doehler & Haas and Trix licensed it.

 

Selectrix only decoders cannot be used with a DCC only command station like a Gaugemaster, but it can be used with a multiprotocol command station like the ESU ECoS.

 

If the decoder in your loco can operate on Selectrix or DCC then you should be OK with your Gaugemaster, but do try to find a manual for the decoder if you can in case it needs to be switched from Selectrix to DCC.  I don't know if this manual would be appropriate https://doehler-haass.de/cms/media/pdf/DH05A_DH10A_en.pdf

It does say that Doehler & Haas SX/DCC decoders don't automatically switch between SX and DCC.

 

They are still selling DCC/SX2 and DCC/SX models now - here is an example

 

[GoingUnderground]

2 hours ago, WIMorrison said:

 

They are still selling DCC/SX2 and DCC/SX models now - here is an example

 

But they are not selling SX capable central stations, I couldn't see one on the Trix website. The Mobile Station product description says it's DCC. The Maerklin Central Station is multiprotocol but excludes SX. Supplying dual protocol decoders is more a legacy support issue, as without an SX or SX2 central station new entrants into digital will not go SX.  Arguably, Trix give more prominence in their product descriptions to DCC than SX/SX2. For example https://www.maerklinshop.de/trix/minitrix/lokomotiven/elektrolokomotiven/61247/elektrolokomotive-baureihe-144 which starts "Modell: Eingebauter DCC-Digital-Decoder und Geräuschgenerator." SX/SX2 is only mentioned as an afterthought in the detailed product description.

 

ESU gives more support to SX than Trix as their ECoS supports SX, as well as MM, mfx/M4 and DCC, and their multiprotocol loco decoders have SX. But I doubt that will make many modellers go out and buy multiprotocol central stations and decoders just to run them on SX. It is more in the way of legacy support for existing users. Other continental European makers may do likewise, and only quoted ESU as I am reasonably familiar with their products.

[GoingUnderground]

I should add that Trix legacy support seems to apply to N gauge models as Trix H0 models have DCC and mfx but not SX/SX2.

[CFL]

Well the PDF pretty well covered all the questions, it covers 6 D&H decoders supplied to various manufacturers.

The chips can be programmed in DCC if attached to DCC control unit (like my Gaugemaster).

The chips can be programmed in Sx if attached to a Sx control unit.

The chips can be programmed in DCC and Sx if attached to a multi-protocol control unit (very expensive).

The chips stay programmed as they were set but can be reprogrammed to another protocol later.

If using a multi-protocol controller the chips can be switched from one protocol to the other - they do not do so automatically.

The rest covers standard programming setups and CV's etc.

 

So, that seems like my question is answered. Once again thanks for all the helpful input all,

cheers,

Ian

[TWG]

It is not clear to me if the loco is HO or N gauge.  If the former, I see a contradiction between the claim that it is brand new and it having a DCC/SX decoder.  As pointed out above,  modern Trix HO locos have mfx/DCC decoders and SX support is confined to Minitrix.  I believe that the reason for this is that in Germany Selectrix still has a fairly strong following among N gauge modellers; for a long time Selectrix had decoders that were much smaller than anything available for DCC.

 

Originally Maerklin intended to include SX in their digital control units.  The Mobile Station 1 had it, but it was dropped for the MS2.  The CS2 had a socket on the back marked Selectrix (which was not operational) but it has disappeared from the CS3.

 

Doehler & Haass dual format decoders were at one time Selectrix decoders with limited DCC capabilities, but the latest ones are excellent in both modes - outstanding motor control and a very impressive specification.

[CFL]

It is a Trix HO 22180, I suppose the seller could have had it on a shelf for a while but the list of DCC operaple items is comprehensive. I really don't think it is an '80s leftover.

[GoingUnderground]

12 minutes ago, CFL said:

It is a Trix HO 22180, I suppose the seller could have had it on a shelf for a while but the list of DCC operaple items is comprehensive. I really don't think it is an '80s leftover.

I think the Trix 22180  dates back to 2010 as an internet search finds references to it in 2010. The Trix online shop says it is no longer a available, which isn't surprising these days where models are made in batches by subcontractors based half way round the world.

 

This reference https://www.euromodeltrains.com/products/Trix/22180 says that it has a DCC/SX decoder, which in 2010 was more than likely to be the case. So you should be OK.

 

As has been pointed out, nowadays Trix uses Maerklin decoders, the newest of which are multiprotocol mfx/DCC decoders. Even the mighty Maerklin has had to recognise that DCC compatibility is desirable, even on their 3 rail/central stud contact system.

[CFL]

I checked the Trix museum page for the loco, as you say discontinued and hard to find (expensive if you do find one) but what was interesting was that the loco came with a large panoply of sounds, these could all be operated under DCC but none under Sx.

As you said earlier it looks like Märklin / Trix still offer Sx compatibility but as a legacy, not for modern or future offerings. I wonder if they will kill it off but there again what does it cost them to include the Sx?

[WIMorrison]

The cost to Maerklin of implementing SX or SX2 in the decoder is that there is finite amount of 'space' and available instructions and additional protocols all consume space and instruction capability resulting in, at best, simply a reduced number of functions, at worst a reduced number of CVs or poorer motor control.

 

Everything is a compromise and that cannot be avoided

[CFL]

So, in essence, poor old Sx is heading the same way as the dodo.

Just out of curiosity are there Sx specific controllers out there?

[GoingUnderground]

1 hour ago, CFL said:

So, in essence, poor old Sx is heading the same way as the dodo.

Just out of curiosity are there Sx specific controllers out there?

SX may go the same way as Hornby Zero One, and all the other first generation digital protocols if there is insufficient support from model railway manufacturers. You might be interested in this article on Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_model_railway_control_systems I'm sure you won't have heard of many of them.

 

You might find the list of manufacturers mentioned at the end of the Wikipedia entry on Selectrix relevant if you're looking for an SX controller https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selectrix I don't know how accurate it is as, strangely, it doesn't mention Doelher & Haass. Looking at the D&H website it seems that their multiprotocol (SX-SX2-DCC-MM) command station, Future-Central-Control, is no longer available, possibly because it relied on the now discontinued Trix Mobile Station 1 for its user interface. One of the manufacturers listed in Wikipedia might make an SX only controller, but it is more likely that it would be a multiprotocol product, such as the ESU ECoS http://www.esu.eu/en/products/digital-control/ECoS-50210-dcc-system/what-ECoS-can-do/ which is the only SX capable unit that I know of currently on sale, but there may well be others of which I am unaware, being a UK based DCC user myself.

[melmerby]

On 28/12/2020 at 21:10, CFL said:

Sorry about the spelling, I must have been thinking of my kid brother's Scalextric.

One thing of note is that the seller called it DCC - / - Sx which hints at it being both systems capable. Older Trix digital locos are all marked Sx, as if they only work with that system.

IIRC when Scalex originally went electric (original Scalex weren't!) they called it Scalectric but changed it to Scalextrix pretty quickly.

[GoingUnderground]

3 hours ago, melmerby said:

IIRC when Scalex originally went electric (original Scalex weren't!) they called it Scalectric but changed it to Scalextrix pretty quickly.

Other sources http://www.scalextric-car.co.uk/Catalogue/Articles/Article_On_The_Origin_Of_Scalextric.htm say the derivation of the name was quite straightforward, Scalex clockwork powered cars became Scalextric with the introduction of electric motors, a natural and intentional contraction of Scalex Electric. Scalectric trips off the tongue much better than Scalextric, and some folks may mistakenly call it that, I certainly have in the past, but then my slot cars were Minic Motorways.

Edited December 30, 2020 by GoingUnderground

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, GoingUnderground said:

Other sources http://www.scalextric-car.co.uk/Catalogue/Articles/Article_On_The_Origin_Of_Scalextric.htm say the derivation of the name was quite straightforward, Scalex clockwork powered cars became Scalextric with the introduction of electric motors, a natural and intentional contraction of Scalex Electric. Scalectric trips off the tongue much better than Scalextric, and some folks may mistakenly call it that, I certainly have in the past, but then my slot cars were Minic Motorways.

I had a couple of original push down-pull back cars in the '50s, I'm pretty sure the Scalectric name was at least mooted for the electric ones as I can remember it in print.

 

I was into slot cars fairly early on and even made some myself by buying some ordinary car kits and converting them. You could buy all the parts to make a slot car chassis, with choices of wheels & motors etc.

The problem with the common (later?) Scalextric track was that it had chrome plated steel contacts which wore away quite quickly with the wire brush pickups employed on the cars, then it became unreliable due to rust forming between use.

At work we were building a large 6 lane track but that used copper strip for contacts.

[Ron Ron Ron]

I’m not sure what Scalextric has to do with Trix’s Selectrix, even with spelling mistakes.

Scale as opposed to Select ?

 

Incidentally, if anyone hasn’t figured it out..... Select Trix  = Selectrix  ....as in, individual selection of locos/ trains.

 

 

 

.

[TWG]

18 hours ago, GoingUnderground said:

SX may go the same way as Hornby Zero One, and all the other first generation digital protocols if there is insufficient support from model railway manufacturers. You might be interested in this article on Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_model_railway_control_systems I'm sure you won't have heard of many of them.

 

You might find the list of manufacturers mentioned at the end of the Wikipedia entry on Selectrix relevant if you're looking for an SX controller https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selectrix I don't know how accurate it is as, strangely, it doesn't mention Doelher & Haass. Looking at the D&H website it seems that their multiprotocol (SX-SX2-DCC-MM) command station, Future-Central-Control, is no longer available, possibly because it relied on the now discontinued Trix Mobile Station 1 for its user interface. One of the manufacturers listed in Wikipedia might make an SX only controller, but it is more likely that it would be a multiprotocol product, such as the ESU ECoS http://www.esu.eu/en/products/digital-control/ECoS-50210-dcc-system/what-ECoS-can-do/ which is the only SX capable unit that I know of currently on sale, but there may well be others of which I am unaware, being a UK based DCC user myself.

 

The death of Selectrix has been prophesied for many years, but it refuses to die.  Perhaps the German saying Totgesagte leben laenger (those expected to die live longer) applies.  There are several small firms producing SX equipment  (e.g. Digit Electronic) in addition to the firms mentioned in the Wikipedia article, who are all still active.  Rautenhaus now has its own Multiplex system RMX which uses the SX system for its accessory bus.  The Doehler & Haass FCC is no longer available, but this is only temporary pending the introduction of a new improved version called FCCx.  For the first time Uhlenbrock offer SX capability in their new decoders and the Intellibox has always offer SX loco control.  I have read that there are quite a few people in Germany who for computer control use the Selectrix bus in combination with DCC systems because of its high speed and reliability. 

 

So don't write Selectrix off yet!  I am planning a tram layout which will be Selectrix controlled.  When Rautenhaus introduced RMX, they took a lot of old SX control units in part exchange and sold them refurbished very cheaply, so I took advantage.  It will be interesting to try something new.