3d modelling - Irish Narrow Gauge (and ZRR 15th class garratt)

ben racey · January 7, 2011

Hi all,

I've been working on a few 3d designs using the shapeways service, and thought I'd upload a few photos as the results may be of interest to others.

The first three photos are of a eLetterkenny and Burtonport Extension Railway 'Lancaster' coach. It's the prototype, I've changed a few things since on a redesign including the way the roof works - on this one it's completely separate, on the revised version I'm currently working on, it's a part of the body 'print', so the roof is separate on this one which accounts for the slight rise in the middle, it does sit down on the body ok. I've also added seats to it t the revised one as well. The bogies are also 3d printed jobs, and you can see the brass handrails, end steps, and underframe brass wire and door handles I've added on to it. I've changed the design so that the roof is attached with some 2x1mm supports, I've then designed a system of pegs so that the roof can be accurately mated with the rest of the body. It'll be broadly 4 parts - bogies, body and roof + details, wheels, and couplings, pretty straightforward hopefully. I'm currently painting this one up and will post a few photos when I'm happy with the livery if there is any interest in it.

The second set of shots are a little, different, from the title anyway, but may be of interest. It's a project to build a HO scale Zimbabwe 15th class (Beyer Peacock) 4-6-4, 4-6-4 garratt. This is the front chassis unit. It's not quite right yet, the cylinders are a bit amenic, I'm afraid I'm suffering by using a weight diagram / photos - MOSI in Manchester have had their reading room closed for refurb before christmas, I'm hoping go get over there soon to see if they've any better drawings from Beyer Peacock. It's of interest as you can see with the tank supports on the top the kind of fine detail you can get, they are approx 1mm square section. It can be tricky as a 3d novice working in that environment, there's nothing to take a reference from!

I'm using a worsley works BR standard class 5 chassis as a valve gear donor for this, and apart from the cylinders, I've also got a few modifications to make to give more room for the motor etc, and beef up the design. I'm working on the tanks and boiler unit at the moment, and of course with a garratt it's 2 for 1 with the chassis unit design! It may also be worth me thinking about making the chassis a bit thicker so that shapeways can print it in metal, rather than plastic to make it a bit more robust. Work is ongoing to redesign this, but I think it shows the potential of the process.

I think the work on the chassis answers a question and concern some have expressed on previous topics on 3d printing, that it's a bit 'layered', it is, well the white strong and flexible is, more expensive materials exhibit less of this problem, but you can mitigate it to some extent at the primer stage by using a fibreglass pencil - or using an overlay of plasticard for the rivet detail, which gets around it completely!(and the layered effect helps key the surface for the superglue. The process should, hopefully, get better as times goes by and the processes and machines improve, I can't wait!, especially if it leads to an accurate and fast route to some really interesting models....

Anyhow,I hope these are of interest.

Regards

Richard.

Nile · January 7, 2011

Hello and welcome to the forum.I've spotted your stuff before when browsing the gallery at shapeways and thought it looked interesting.I've not found the time myself to do more than dabble with 3d design.I can see it's going to be a challenge getting a decent finish on those coaches without loosing the panelling detail.I look foward to seeing further progress with these models.

ben racey · January 7, 2011

Hi Neil,

Thanks, the coach is currently half painted, should have something to photograph by the end of the weekend, so far, it's looking good(to me anyway!)

Regards

Richard.

Ohmisterporter · January 8, 2011

Welcome Richard, this looks very interesting. Anyone building a Garratt has my attention. Are you building it to run on 12mm gauge?

Geoff.

ben racey · January 8, 2011

Hi Geoff,

Yes, this will be in 4mm scale, 12mm gauge. It's going to be a long project, as well as getting to grips with 3d modelling, the drawings I have - from ' the smoke that thunders', and a Beyer Peacock Sales guide, aren't really good enough to work from I've blown one up to HO scale as well and even with that, well, they're really weight diagrams rather than anything else, ok for wheelbase and overall details but not much else, hence my problem with the cylinders. It'll get there I'm sure, but it may be a while! I hope to get up to the Museum of Science and Industry in Manchester to see what they've got - their library was being refurbished before christmas, but I haven't had chance to get up there yet.

It'll be a nice machine when it's done! If you're into Garratts this was on the old RMweb:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=29122

Which got me into Garratts, and the end of the topic details the start of my thinking on the 15th class - which I've just realised means it's been in the planning for two years so far...!

Regards

Richard.

Grovenor · January 8, 2011

It's a project to build a HO scale Zimbabwe 15th class (Beyer Peacock) 4-6-4, 4-6-4 garratt.

from your first message, and now

Yes, this will be in 4mm scale, 12mm gauge.

Please confirm which scale you are using, if it is 4mm scale then it would fit in with my dabbling, I gave up on thoughts of H0 when I found that my U20C (sold as H0) is actually 4mm scale and looked out of place next to South African H0 stock. everything else has to be scratch built anyway and parts availability is better in 4mm scale.

Regards

Keith

My U20C project

Ohmisterporter · January 8, 2011

I remember you and that Garrett very well. Your posting numbers are down now, what happened to the other 244 from the earlier RMWeb? I used to have a GA drawing of an SAR GCA class, which was quite well detailed being much bigger than a "normal" modelling scale. Most of the small detail is out of sight in H0/00 provided the boiler and tanks look right and I think you can be forgiven for missing off anything between the frames for instance. At one point I was toying with the idea of building SAR/RR in Sn3.5 to run on 16.5mm track. Good luck with the build I shall be watching with interest.

Geoff.

Grovenor · January 8, 2011

the drawings I have - from ' the smoke that thunders', and a Beyer Peacock Sales guide,

If you have access to old copies of "Continental modeller" they dfid a series on Zimbabwe Garratts back in 1989/90. Unfortunately I only have the last one (July '90) which covered the 20th Class. it does include a reasonable 1:87 drawing so I suspect the article on the 15th would also have drawings. Otherwise what I have are only weight diagram standard.

Some photos here might be helpful. 15th Class photos.

Regards

Keith

ben racey · January 8, 2011

Hi, the garratt is to be HO scale, 12mm gauge, sorry typo there, the coach is 4mm scale, but also 12mm gauge. I've a fair collection of CM's dating back a fair while and have the ones they did on the garratts, there's a very nice 20th class HO scale drawing in one of those, but no drawing for a 15th. The 20th would be very nice, I do have that edition from July 1990... Just have to find some suitable valve gear and I'd be away!

When Rmweb changed over from the old one I lost my password and never got round to logging back in! tsk, oh well, got it sorted now!

Thanks for the link to the U20c project, I'll take a look.

Regards

Richard.

invercloy · January 9, 2011

Ben, I REALLY like the look of the L&BER coach, well and the garratt, but the coach especially as I am rather partial to Irish ng.

3d printing has been discussed a lot recently on NGRM (http://ngrm-online.com) with a couple of guys who are experimenting with using it, might be of interest and it's NG specific.

Look forward to seeing how you get on with this.

ben racey · January 9, 2011

Hi thanks,will take a look at NGRM, as I keep an eye on the stuff there as well.

Attached as promised below are some shots as the coach stands tonight, quite pleased with the way this is turning out, hopefully I'll get some transfers onto it in the next few days.

Regards

Richard.

invercloy · January 9, 2011

Do you think the texture created by the process on the finished product has an impact on painting? Several people have discussed sanding rapid prototyped models on NGRM, that's what's holding me back from doing the same at the moment. I'd be interested to know your thoughts.

ben racey · January 9, 2011

Hi Tom,

There is a surface texture to 3d printed materials at present, for sure. But you can mitigate this in a couple of ways:

1. Rub down the surface with a fibreglass pencil, prime, rub down, paint, rub down and final surface finish. That's what I've done with the coach, I think it looks good - but don't know how you view it!

1. Print out the model rather than in 'White Strong Flexible', in 'White Strong'. This gives a surface finish which is smoother, very good in fact, but the material is a bit brittle - for instance it won't like being prized apart to insert and remove axles between axleboxes for instance - but will be fine for a body.

2. Design the 'bones' of the model to be printed and then add rivet detail etc from plasticard, or even design your own etched brass overlay. That will be great as you will get the best of both worlds from your design.

Only you can decide whether it's a problem for you. Personally I think I've found a few ways round it, it's swings and roundabouts really!

Regards

Richard,.

Grovenor · January 9, 2011

Hi, the garratt is to be HO scale, 12mm gauge, sorry typo there, the coach is 4mm scale, but also 12mm gauge. I've a fair collection of CM's dating back a fair while and have the ones they did on the garratts, there's a very nice 20th class HO scale drawing in one of those, but no drawing for a 15th.

Pity about the CM not having the drawings, a bit odd that they didn't commission drawings for each one, means I didn't miss much anyway. Presumably when you have your drawings ready for final print they could be printed to any required scale? I've seen someone doing that with Class 25 Cabs.

Your coach is looking very good IMHO, seems like a very worthwhile process.

Regards

Keith

invercloy · January 10, 2011

I think it looks good - but don't know how you view it!

I think it looks very promising, I wasn't commenting on your models in particular but more making a general observation on some of the 3d printed models i've seen so far.

Glad to hear you think it can be smoothed out. I'll have to investigate this some more!

Ohmisterporter · January 18, 2011

Richard,

Follow the link below to the Museum of Science and Industry site.

http://emu.msim.org.uk/htmlmn/collections/online/search.php?type=images.

In 'Collection name' select Beyer Peacock and in 'Date of association' put 1940.

There are several works photographs of the RR 15th class as well as at least one engineering drawing. Hope this helps.

Geoff.

ben racey · January 18, 2011

Geoff..... Wow!! Surprised you didn't hear a woop of excitement from where you are! That's just what I've been looking for, very many thanks for linking that through. I'll have a good delve in there...

Regards

Richard.

Horsetan · January 18, 2011

----->Anyone tried the Thing-o-Matic 3D printer?

Pugsley · January 18, 2011

It doesn't say what the resolution of the thing-o-matic is, but I suspect that it isn't sufficient for printing small scale parts, most of the expensive ones aren't quite there yet either!

ben racey · January 18, 2011

Haven't seen any of the output from the thing o matic, though I'd have to agree you might not get the resolution we need for modelling with out of it. Could be worth a play though!

Ohmisterporter · January 18, 2011

Anyone else think the 'Thing-o-matic' sounds like a Wallace and Gromit creation?

Geoff.

tebee · January 18, 2011

Thing-o-matic finest vertical resolution is theoretically .05mm but practically it seems .25mm is the best that can be attained at the moment, so not really good enough for us yet.

ben racey · January 18, 2011

Definately does sound like wallace and gromit made it, and the 'makerbot' bit too!

ben racey · January 18, 2011

Thanks to Geoff's earlier gen, I've spent a pleasant interlude surfing the MOSI website for gen. Here's the links to the various RR/ZR garratts I could find. By no means comprehensive yet, it's a bit tricky to navigate their search mechanism, but enough to substantially improve my gen position on the 15th class. It's also very distracting on there, there's all sorts of interesting machines......

Regards

richard.

2-6-2 2-6-2 garratt:

http://emu.msim.org.uk/web/pages/common/imagedisplay.php?irn=16166&reftable=ecatalogue&refirn=34969

http://emu.msim.org.uk/web/pages/common/imagedisplay.php?irn=16167&reftable=ecatalogue&refirn=34970

http://emu.msim.org.uk/web/pages/common/imagedisplay.php?irn=15581&reftable=ecatalogue&refirn=34597

http://emu.msim.org.uk/htmlmn/web/pages/common/imagedisplay_mosi.php?irn=16307

http://emu.msim.org.uk/htmlmn/web/pages/common/imagedisplay_mosi.php?irn=15581

http://emu.msim.org.uk/web/objects/common/webmedia.php?irn=16464

http://emu.msim.org.uk/htmlmn/web/pages/common/imagedisplay_mosi.php?irn=17018

http://emu.msim.org.uk/htmlmn/web/pages/common/imagedisplay_mosi.php?irn=17019

http://emu.msim.org.uk/htmlmn/web/pages/common/imagedisplay_mosi.php?irn=16465