Park Street

[Katier]

I have just started planning my new layout, my first after 20 years, and am doing a fictional station heavily inspired by Moor Street Station, Birmingham.

 

The planning thread for the layout design can be found here and the final design is below :-

 

 

I decided to start a new thread for the next stage to avoid having to trawl through all the design planning steps. EDIT - added latest version of plan.

 

Brief

 

Park street will be set either 1930's GWR or around 1955-60 WR BR so rolling stock will be chosen to suit. The station itself will be heavily based on Moor Street as it provides a perfect prototype but won't be a 'model of' as such - partially because while the one tunnel is easy to do, the second isn't because well there are miles of viaduct in reality. Plus don't really have enough space for it.

 

Below the station will be a goods yard with small loco facilities (for shunter, refuelling loco's etc. ) in the bottom right. The three lines are two mainlines with the outer line being a bi-directional relief line. Signalling will also hint at a branchline just through the tunnel. Loco turning would be accomplished just down the line due to insufficient space for a turntable in the confined space of the Park Street viaduct.

 

Help

 

So now I'm at the planning stage I would like some throughts and assitance in the next stages please.

 

The 83" x 39"Baseboard I'm thinking of doing a simple pine frame with thin ply top onto which I glue the supports for the track then probably MDF as the main track support.The fiddle yard I imagine will be a raised piece of flat ply on supports from the frame. This layout will sit on top of my spare single bed when it's operating so fairly lightweight but solid is useful.

 

Track

 

Track I originally thought I'd use peco, but debating making my own. I'm more than happy soldering and indeed did make a OO point years ago but don't know what the comparable costs are and what the best options are for hand made points.

 

Stock

 

In case it influences the above stock wise I'd guess at :-

 

Caslte/Hall hauled through trains.

 

2-6-2T hauled local trains.

 

14xx auto train and/or single railcar from the branchline hinted off scene.

 

Pannier tanks for shunting, small freight trains and maybe the odd shorter passenger train.

 

2-6-0 hauled trains of all types.

 

For the 1955-60 era I would add :-

 

Couple of standard class BR steam locos.

 

Be nice to include some diesels in this era too but not sure what's available out of those that were around in 58-59.

 

Not sure what's available, not averse to kit building the odd loco - never done it before but confident I can . Suggestions on what's available would be appreciated.

 

Electrics

 

When I was modelling last most people went DC. Zero 1 was around but obviously unpopular. My natural reaction is to go DC again, as it's the devil I know.. but would I be making a bad choice and how do I keep costs down with DCC?

 

 

 

 

Thanks - any tips, help and advice would be appreciated.

[Guest jim s-w]

Hi

 

Have you got a copy of the recent Moor street book? (http://birmingham2london.blogspot.com/2011/01/book-review-birmingham-moor-street.html)

 

We will be at ally pally with the P4 version of Birmingham Moor Street if you fancy a chat.

 

Cheers

 

Jim

[Kris]

Hand made pointwork in n gauge is unusual and where done is often made using components from the 2mm association. I've never calculated the cost of building a point but suspect that it costs less than £2 per point for a plain copperclad point but when you start adding in chairs or building them with easitrack, or using jigs the costs rise. Whilst the difference in cost is quite significant I would still suggest that for the track work that you are proposing that you will be better off using peco track.

 

DCC - all of the loco's that you want to use can be converted to DCC but some like the panniers are far from easy to do.

 

Locos

Hall - new model due out soon from Dapol wait for this one as the old Farish one is woefully lacking in detail compared to modern offerings.

Castle - An old Farish model is the choice, poor detail and nasty front bogie.

2-6-2 - 61xx available from Farish, again an old model. 45xx's from Dapol, a newer model with good body detail, the mechanism can be suspect make sure that you see it running before purchasing.

14xx - Dapol's first n gauge loco. The version that I have works well, others have reported mixed results from this loco.

Panniers (all farish and all old models)- 94xx - The body looks the part but is dimensionally inaccurate. 54xx - Given it's age a reasonable model does lack the detail found in modern locos.

Manor - Ixion - Very nice modern loco not dcc ready but convertible with ease.

2-6-0's currently no ready to run but 43xx promised from Ixion by the end of the year otherwise you are looking at kits, none of which really look the part to my eyes.

BR standards - Farish have some nice models that have recently been released, some have had issues with the mechanism so again try to see them running before purchasing. Dapol also have the Britannia's which are generally good and 9f's the most recent batch is better than the earlier ones.

 

I would just stick to ply for the track surface rather than MDF. Make sure you seal the wood whatever you use.

[Karhedron]

If you want improved trackwork you might want to consider Easitrack from the 2mm association. Most N gauge stock will run on it just fine. You can either build you own points if you feel comfortable with that or connect it to regular points with a bit of fettling. For more information on it check ths thread.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/31961-2mm-n-track-someone-set-me-straight/page__p__336019__fromsearch__1#entry336019

[BernardTPM]

Hall - the old Farish one is woefully lacking in detail compared to modern offerings.

Also lacking in correct dimensions! - truly dreadful. Definitely worth waiting for the Dapol model.

[Katier]

Thanks folks, food for thought. Looks like for the GWR era I'm looking at for now :-

 

2-6-2 - seem to remmber I used to have one and looked ok to my untrained eye so perhaps a Farish and a Dapol to give variety.

 

Definitely get the 14xx - am I right in thinking the autocoach is available?

 

Manor

 

54xx

 

 

 

 

Solid start although shame it's lacking a hall or castle . Any other alternatives?

 

 

[Kris]

Have a look for PD Marsh kits on ebay for larger loco's. These tend to use the chassis from the Farish models. I don't know how accurate these are.

The autocoach is available, again from Dapol.

 

Something to note is that Dapol tend to do small production runs so you may have to phone around to get some models and others might only be available second hand. This approach does not please everyone but is done to try and keep a good turn over of loco's in shops. Each production run also has a different running number.

[SteveBedding]

Katier

 

A very interesting thread, and one close to my own heart - although I lean more towards the 1940's GWR than the BR(WR) - though this can always be interchangeable . The planning thread was most informative and it looks like you have come up with a plan that should give some interesting operating opportunities; you've nicely combined a ‘roundy-roundy’ with the shunting/movement operations around the station throat.

 

There are some points that have already been mentioned, but I think should be restated:

 

1) As Kris suggested, you should loose the scissors-crossing in the station and replace it with a trailing cross-over; this would be a) more prototypical, b ) cheaper, and c) ‘narrower’. I couldn’t quite make out what your usage of set-track and/or

Streamline

(Code 55) was throughout the layout, but I’m sure that you are aware that there is a difference in the distance between the track-centers with these two systems (Set-track being somewhat ‘wider’).

 

2) Avoid MDF if possible. Whilst it is easy to work with, it can be quite heavy and if not properly treated/sealed, it is prone to moisture absorption which causes swelling and distortion. Best advice here is to stick to reasonable quality marine ply (not that stuff from the superstores…)

 

3) The Farish panniers, 57xx and the later 8750 classes, (not the 54xx – sorry Kris) are really quite reasonable and although they are far from dcc ready, their conversion is quite straight forward with the use of ‘digi-hats’. As far as the detailing goes, they can be quite easily be improved by replacing the molded handrails with separate wire ones (available from N Brass locos); also the boiler top feeder can be filed off for earlier periods.

 

The last thing to consider is related to the size of the baseboard. 39†is quite a reach to access the fiddle yards at the back of the layout – if the board is against a wall then this could be a problem (especially if you have some form of back scene/scenic divide between the ‘red’ and ‘green’ areas shown. This would be worsened should you ‘acquire’ a couple more inches to go at the front… On that point I would suggest that (space permitting) you should look for at least 6†between the front of the board and the track – this gives a measure of ‘protection’ and a scenic foreground.

 

You’ve got a well thought through start here and I shall watch this layout develop with interest.

 

Cheers

[Katier]

What's a 'digi-hat'?

 

If I went DCC what's the most economical way to do it and which system is a 'must avoid' ( if indeed there is one)

 

Points are all medium non-set track (finescale I think in this drawing) while the fiddle yard has set track curves for simplicity. The scissors will be replaced with a simple crossing. Whats the recommended way of fixing track down these days?

 

Probably run peco in this model.

 

 

[Kris]

Digihat

 

Steve - 54xx, 57xx bah

[Katier]

Thanks Kris so you install the digi-hat then get a standard n-gauge decoder and fit?

[Katier]

We will be at ally pally with the P4 version of Birmingham Moor Street if you fancy a chat.

 

Hi Jim,

 

What where when is ally pally?

 

thx

Kat

[Kris]

Thanks Kris so you install the digi-hat then get a standard n-gauge decoder and fit?

 

 

More or less, it needs to be a wired version of the decoder and you obviously need to make sure that you can fit it into the loco in question.

 

 

[Karhedron]

What where when is ally pally?

The Alexandra Palace festival of railway modelling. It is in London this weekend.

 

http://www.alexandrapalace.com/events/london-festival-of-railway-modelling/

[Katier]

Thankyou - sounds excellent but can't make it- GP weekend and going to the craft show at the NEC.

 

 

 

 

 

[unravelled]

There might be the opportunity to extend the outer fiddle yard lines a bit. If the first point at each end comes off the curve, rather than the straight you would gain a couple of points length in the sidings, and avoid the reverse curve. Similarly if the crossover arrangement at the top right came off the curve the other sidings could be lengthened too.

Hope that mekes sens

 

Dave

[Katier]

There might be the opportunity to extend the outer fiddle yard lines a bit. If the first point at each end comes off the curve, rather than the straight you would gain a couple of points length in the sidings, and avoid the reverse curve. Similarly if the crossover arrangement at the top right came off the curve the other sidings could be lengthened too.

Hope that mekes sens

 

Dave

 

 

 

 

Nice idea, tweaked the layout to suit and gives me something around a 43" longest fiddle siding and all are over 30". Also had a brainwave and re-did the plan slightly with the curve into the station doing 85 degree's not 80 as per the plan above. That pulls the front of the layout away from the board and gives me about 3-4" along the front for scenics. I also am considering one final tweak and doing a run round loop by linking the goods siding link road (between the point and the double slip) and the loco servicing sidings.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Katier]

As part of the development I started a thread in the signalling area about the signalling needed and following suggestions in that thread and some tweaks I wanted to do to improve space I ended up with a revised track plan.

 

 

 

Changes :-

 

Revise Terminii throat to allow better parallel running.

 

Simplify entry to the Goods area.

 

Change the 'snow hill' lines to Radius 2 and 3 allowing me to pull the station towards middle of board.

 

Add an extra siding for Shunting.

 

Add extra loco Siding including a Turntable.

 

 

 

 

I'm planning on having a go at a traverser for the Terminii platforms which would allow Tender engines to use that line. Both Mainline platforms should easily accomodate 6 coaches with the loco just off the end of the platforms. The Terminii are going to be set to squeeze 4 coaches in max, made easier by the traverser. I suspect the majority of the use of the turntable would be by goods loco's rather than passenger.

 

 

[Karhedron]

Just an idea, put the through station on a gentle curve. It looks better to have a continuous curve rather than a straight followed by a sharp curve. This will also allow you to use larger radius curves at the ends and helps get away from the "trainset oval" look.

[Kris]

You don't need a traverser at the end of the terminating platforms you just need a pilot loco that will come and remove the coaches to free up the main loco and to then return the coaches before the main loco takes the coaches back out again.

[The Stationmaster]

Looking much better I think with the parallel possibilities incorporated. Still no trap points but they could be dummies.

[Katier]

Just an idea, put the through station on a gentle curve. It looks better to have a continuous curve rather than a straight followed by a sharp curve. This will also allow you to use larger radius curves at the ends and helps get away from the "trainset oval" look.

 

I might put a slight curve in but not strictly needed (and indeed Moor Street is straight as a Die) as the sharp curves are all behind the scenes. The triple track is still 12" 13" and 14". Plus that section will be fairly heavily disguised with canopy's for the platforms and the Tunnel will have a Matt black painted 'cover' for a distance too.

[Katier]

You don't need a traverser at the end of the terminating platforms you just need a pilot loco that will come and remove the coaches to free up the main loco and to then return the coaches before the main loco takes the coaches back out again.

 

Oh I know I can do that but a Traverser would be fun to model and I don't think TOO hard, especially if it was manually operated. Doubt it would be overly hard to mechanise either.

[RJD]

Wasn't Moor Street Station a terminus only in the days of steam? I don't believe the through lines to Snow Hill had platforms?

 

RJD

[Katier]

Wasn't Moor Street Station a terminus only in the days of steam? I don't believe the through lines to Snow Hill had platforms?

 

RJD

Indeed, hence being inspired by, rather than a model of. If I was doing a model of Moor Street it would include the full double height goods facilities, including if I could do it the truck lifts (which I would use to allow me to 'fill up' the empties). Darn it I've given away plans for a future model :-D

 

 

 

 

As it is I'm considering adding a canal through beside where Park Street is in real life and possibly doing some form of interchange where a crane hoists supplies between the canal and the goods yard ( not sure if that's ever been done in real life but don't see why not).