Eastwood Town - A tribute to Gordon's modelling.

[gordon s]

Thanks Mike.

 

The two at the front face North East, and there's one at the back facing South West. There are blinds on all three that are normally down for exactly the reasons you give Mike. I only lift them if I'm working or taking pictures, but I am acutely aware of direct sunlight and they aren't open if there's any chance of fading etc. I agree it could be a problem, but I wanted it to be bright and sunny whilst I was working and not dark and dingy, so it just needs a bit more care on my part.

[gordon s]

I said at the front end, there are many ways to build turnouts and generally speaking there is no preferred method. You do however need to be aware of the critical dimensions and how a turnout functions. The key area for me is not the gauge but the relationship between the vee, the wing rails and the outer check rails. When I first started building turnouts, I made the mistake of fitting the outer rails and then gauging the check rails back from the outer rails. This is not the best way to ensure the dimension between the wing rails and check rails is correct, so here I perhaps differ from the norm, in as much as I fit the check rails at this point of the build and then set the outer rails from the check rail, not the other way round. This dimension is critical for good running, whereas the gauge of the outer rails is much less so.

 

So just to finish off today, cut the check rails to length and form the flare. Accurately position them using the gauge and solder into position. Repeat the process on the other side and that's the critical bit complete.

 

The next job will be to complete the other two vees, but here I will form the rail to run from the vee, right through to the end and then cut the isolation slot afterwards, rather than build in short sections. You can do it that way, but I just prefer to establish the curve right through and then make a cut.

 

 

[trisonic]

Are those (pictured in #909) the standard OO-SF roller gauges, Gordon? They are "flatted" on the side we cannot see?

 

Best, Pete.

[gordon s]

No, those are the check rail gauges and as you say, they have flats on one side so they can sit on top of the crossing eve/wing rail.

Edited April 30, 2012 by gordon s

[Robert McGee]

How long would it take you to perform the task of building a point. I'm in no hurry to start building another layout as The Meltham Branch is still barely complete, but I fancy building a turnout, even if it's a kit.

[gordon s]

Depends on the size, Robert as that dictates the number of sleepers and the number of solder joints, but on average about two hours from start to finish. I don't really take time on board though, as it will take as long as it takes. Once you start thinking about time, you may start cutting corners and that's a recipe for disaster. Just enjoy the journey....

Edited May 1, 2012 by gordon s

[trisonic]

S'all modelling, init?

 

I'll have to check the special drawings Brian sent me to ensure these gauges are included (a special set for US Code 70 that have a narrower rail head).

Best, Pete.

[45156]

Thanks for the masterclass in finescale turnout construction, Gordon. It speaks volumes for this site that we can share this sort of stuff freely and enjoy the fruits of our fellow members' skills and experience, and also that those posting the info do so freely and willingly. You clearly have attained a level in track construction that I for one can only dream of.

[gordon s]

Thanks for your very kind and flattering comments. It was only a few years ago that I had never built a turnout and my skills have improved, but I'm still a million miles away from the Norman Soloman's of this world. This photo strip is just an attempt to show how straightforward it really is, if you just take your time and use a mix of basic engineering skills and common sense. There is no mystique about it, just a few simple tools and an understanding of how a turnout works. None of this is rocket science and you'll be surprised what you can do if you make a start.

[martin_wynne]

and an understanding of how a turnout works.

 

To that end I thought it may be helpful to add a diagram to expand on Gordon's excellent account:

 

A is the check gauge. It is the most critical dimension in pointwork. That's why Gordon fits the check rail before the running rail. If this dimension is too small, wheels running from left to right can hit the nose of the vee and very likely derail, or at least bump. If this dimension is too large, the wheel backs will bind or jam on the check rail. To make sure it's correct, the check rail is set using check gauge tools, as shown in Gordon's picture. For 00-SF and 00-BF this dimension should be 15.2mm, so you can use the same check gauge tools for both standards.

 

B is the crossing flangeway gap. It's also important. If this dimension is too small, the wheel backs will bind or jam on the wing rail. If this dimension is too large, the gap in front of the nose of the vee will be too wide, and the wheels may drop into it with a bump. This gap is set using a small piece of metal shim called a crossing flangeway gauge shim. For 00-SF it should be 1.0mm thick. For 00-BF it should be 1.3mm thick.

 

C is the track gauge. It shouldn't be less than the specified dimension, but can be wider. It is often widened on sharply curved track to ease the running of long-wheelbase vehicles. The track gauge is normally set using roller gauge tools, or alternatively using a 3-point gauge tool, which automatically widens the track gauge on curves. For 00-SF this dimension shouldn't be less than 16.2mm. For 00-BF it is normally 16.5mm.

 

D is the check rail gap. The width of this gap doesn't matter a damn. It's whatever you end up with after setting A and C correctly.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

[trisonic]

Hang on, Gordon uses commercially available finished plain track so what is the measurement for that? I thought 16.2mm in OO-SF only applied to pointwork? What happens where the two meet?

 

Only slightly playing Devil's Advocate........

 

Best, Pete.

[martin_wynne]

Hang on, Gordon uses commercially available finished plain track so what is the measurement for that? I thought 16.2mm in 00-SF only applied to pointwork? What happens where the two meet?

 

Hi Pete,

 

Commercial 00 gauge flexi-track is already gauge-widened to 16.5mm when used with 00-SF and it doesn't need further widening on curves. Where it meets 16.2mm track the gauge is adjusted over a couple of inches, preferably on the inside rail of a curve.

 

For a small layout 00-SF modellers sometimes build 16.2mm plain track for straight and gentle curves. It is then possible to correctly model the 60ft (or other length) jointed track panels, with closed-up sleeper spacings towards the joint and sometimes a wider sleeper adjacent to the joint.

 

For a large layout that would be a lot of work, and most 00-SF modellers compromise by using commercial 16.5mm flexi-track.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

[polybear]

Hang on, Gordon uses commercially available finished plain track so what is the measurement for that? I thought 16.2mm in OO-SF only applied to pointwork? What happens where the two meet?

 

 

Theoretically it should be 16.5mm for commercial track, though I'd be interested to know what the actual measured values are for C&L, SMP (I believe Gordon uses this), Exactoscale and PECO Flexitrack.

 

Rather than hand-build all trackwork to 16.2mm (Gordon has the Gauges, so there's no excuse...) he cheats and makes a gradual transition over several inches from the 16.2mm turnouts to the 16.5mm plain trackwork. Bit shoddy if you ask me...

 

Brian

 

 

Edit: Why is it that Martin W. can always type faster than I can?? Maybe 30 years of Templot development gives him an edge.....

Edited May 1, 2012 by polybear

[gordon s]

Pete, the 16.2mm gauge is only really critical in the frog/crossing area so I widen the track back out to 16.5mm over a few inches beyond the critical area. Let's face it, we're only talking about 12 thou, which means a deviation of 6 thou on each rail. By the time you get to the exit or approach points of my turnouts, the gauge is 16.5mm, so is a perfect match for 00 SMP track.

 

I'd be hard pushed to see that at the best of times, even with glasses....

Edited May 1, 2012 by gordon s

[trisonic]

True, G.

It is important enough for OO-SF to be called er, OO-SF though - if you get my meaning, otherwise why bovver? I don't want to bog Gordon's explanations down with such questions, however.

Both he and Brian know where I'm coming from (the relevance - which I believe - to Finescale HO). I've been getting similar answers from people over here that have never heard of OO-SF...but OO-SF is the only entity I've found with gauges available (thank goodness).

 

Back to Gordon.

 

Best, Pete.

[martin_wynne]

It is important enough for 00-SF to be called er, 00-SF though - if you get my meaning, otherwise why bovver?

 

Hi Pete,

 

I called it 00-SF in Templot because "EM MINUS 2" didn't fit the available space, and is a non-evident name for track intended for 00 gauge rolling stock.

 

the relevance - which I believe - to Finescale H0). I've been getting similar answers from people over here that have never heard of 00-SF...but 00-SF is the only entity I've found with gauges available (thank goodness).

 

AMRA have an essentially similar H0-SF standard and I believe gauge tools available, from Terry Flynn:

 

http://www.amra.asn.au

 

http://www.amra.asn.au/standards.htm

 

regards,

 

Martin.

[trustytrev]

Hello Gordon,

 

ut I prefer to use these jigs available from the EM Gauge Society. This jig covers crossing angles of 9,10,11 and 12. There is a smaller one to cover 5,6,7 and 8. This particular turnout is a C10, so I have filed up one end using the correct slot.

Could you clarify your method of filing using the jig please.I have read the EM society manual and there is mention of first filing the rail then bending it then filing it again on the other side in the jig.I find this discription rather confusing especialy where one needs to clamp and file etc.Then it is repeated for the second rail.

trustytrev.

[gordon s]

Hi Trev, I think I understand what they are suggesting and I'm happy to show you how it's done, but to be honest I've never had cause to do it. I simply file one side in the jig to 1:10 and then file the other rail exactly the same, other than the rail is reversed, so that the thicker section of the bullhead rail is at the top. I've always found this creates the correct angle and they just slide together. If you look closely at the pics above, you can see the filed shape and how they fit together.

 

Next instalment. I've finished off the other two vees/crossings and here there is a minor difference. As I mentioned before, I prefer to make these as one piece and then cut the isolation gaps afterwards, so the vee has been formed on a length of rail that runs through the next crossing and out to the end. At this point I only solder sufficient sleepers to hold the rails in the crossing section and the rest of the rail is left loose.

 

One of the things I forgot to mention is that you must build point work to the gauges and not to the drawing. Martin's Templot prints are very accurate but they are only a guide. When you are sitting at a bench and soldering rails, you can get a parallax error where you believe the rail is in line with the drawing and solder it into position. When you change position or stand up, you may be surprised to see the rail may be a fraction of a mm out to the drawing. Not a problem providing you ignore the drawing and build to the gauges. You have plenty of space in which to gently ease the rail away from the crossing if necessary and gently bring it back in line with the drawing. So don't worry if you see your rail is slightly out when compared to the printed rail, it really isn't an issue.

 

One of the greatest tools we are equipped with is our eyesight and there is no doubt in my mind that the key to flowing point work is our ability to look along rails and see if the curve changes anywhere along its length. These two inner rails will be set up by eye and only the gap between the check rail and the rail set up with the 1mm shim. Once you have got a decent flowing curve you can solder the rail in position. Don't work your way along the rail, but tack one end, then the middle and then the other end. Continually check the curve by eye and keep dividing each section down into smaller and smaller sections until every sleeper is soldered.

 

The outer rail is then gauged from these inner datum rails using the track gauges. I'll get round to that tomorrow and then we can tackle the point blades and the dummy sleepers which will act as a tie bar.

 

[Ramblin Rich]

Gordon - thanks very much for the explanations & images, very useful & quite a revalation in terms of the appearence of the crossing area & the idea of blending into 16.5mm plain track . I can see the attraction of OO-SF in giving better pointwork visually & not having to adjust wheels (hopefully).

Martyn (Wynne) - can you explain what OO-BF is, is it what DOGA call "fine" standard? I assume with this there would be a need to adjust wheel back to back settings...

[martin_wynne]

Martyn (Wynne) - can you explain what 00-BF is, is it what DOGA call "fine" standard? I assume with this there would be a need to adjust wheel back to back settings...

Hi Rich,

 

00-BF is the designation used in Templot for traditional "scale 00", the standards for which were published by the BRMSB about 60 years ago. To all intents and purposes it is equivalent to DOGA-Intermediate, and to standard NMRA-H0, which is the standard most RTR models are now built to. It doesn't require any adjustment of wheels on modern RTR models. (It would do for ancient Triang, Trix, etc., models, as would 00-SF.)

 

00-BF and 00-SF standards can be mixed on the same layout because they both have the same check gauge dimension, and both run unmodified wheels.

 

DOGA-Fine standard is different and requires all wheels to be widened to 14.8mm back-to-back. The C&L gauge tools conform to the DOGA-Fine standard. Note that after widening your wheels to 14.8mm they won't run reliably on 00-BF or 00-SF.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

[trisonic]

I'm sorry if my question took this subject off track (sic).....I was just trying to learn more.

 

Please resume normal service and apologies!

 

Best, Pete.

[gordon s]

Another day, another dollar and we're in the home straight. Can't beat a good cliche.....

 

Last night I tack soldered the two outer rails into position, carefully checking for kinks and any wandering from the smooth flow that I have set up in Templot. I've probably only soldered 10-20% of the total solder joints at this stage, as I like to retain flexibility, should anything slip out of alignment.

 

The next step will be to plane up the switch rails, fit them in position and make up the tie bar. I used to hate filing the taper on switch rails and disasters include catching the file on the end of the blade and folding the blade like a concertina, or filing it to a point, slipping and stabbing my thumb or fingers with a few mm of nickel silver rail. Applying some logic to the problem, I 'engineered' this jig and it works perfectly. Blades can be done in a few seconds and injuries have reduced considerably.

 

A piece of scrap wood has been marked up with the planing length for both B and C switches. Both the rail and the block are clamped to the bench and a few seconds with a half inch medium file can easily make the required taper. Once you have done that, make sure you remove all burrs etc from the edges and check for a smooth surface, particularly on the bottom edge, as this has to slide across the other sleepers. Likewise, I should have said to make sure there are no burrs on the other sleepers, as you will often find a small lip on pcb sleepers where the cutting tool has lost its edge.

 

 

 

Once this is done, align the switch rail with the tie bar position, cut to length and using your gauges, tack solder the rail into position. Check the end of the switch rail aligns perfectly with the end of the wing rail in all planes. I normally leave 12 sleepers unsoldered from the tie bar and would suggest you mark the 12th sleeper on the plan with a big cross or you will find you get carried away when soldering and solder up the switch rail by mistake.

 

 

I use some pretty high tech equipment to set up the tie bar, a 20p piece and a sliver of 120gm copy paper. The switch blade has to move freely across the adjacent sleepers and I've found that a small sliver of paper just gives that additional clearance to the switch rail once it is soldered up to the tie bar. As far as tie bars are concerned, I looked at most of the preferred methods and they all looked much better and more prototypical than mine, but to be honest they were fiddly and would take far too much time to make, particularly when you have 70+ of them to make, so I stayed with a dummy sleeper.

 

I would not recommend this for solenoid motors at all or anywhere on the layout where the track is not easily accessible. I have designed ET to avoid this situation completely and I use slow motion Tortoise motors. OK, these have not had high usage, but I have never had one tie bar fail and even if it did, it would only take seconds to repair. Solder the tie bar to the switch rail in the open position using the 20p coin as a gauge (thanks for the idea MW!) and make sure the sliver of paper is in position. Repeat the process on the other side and we're getting nearer.

 

Next stage will be to finish off the other two turnouts, cut all the isolation slots and remove the point work from the plan. Final stage will be to wash thoroughly, prime and paint and job done.

 

 

[Trevellan]

My delayed thanks for the tutorial Gordon. Having used the PCB method to construct a point I agree that the thought is worse than the deed. However, your hints and tips are really useful. I for one would never have considered a 20p piece as a modelling aid!

[gordon s]

I'm really pleased you have found this tutorial of use as others helped me when I first started down this route and I've always worked on the 'pay it forward' principle.

 

It's been good for me too as it's slowed me down and certainly made me think about what I was doing and how to avoid the various pitfalls along the way. For testing, I use an old 0-6-0 chassis fitted with Markits wheels as a test mule and I have to say the running quality through these three points is exceptional. Once I've dealt with any obvious errors, my benchmark test is to close my eyes and push this chassis through the point work. My goal is to be able to do that by feel and not know when the chassis passes through the turnout. It should be completely smooth and you should not be able to feel a bump or hear any click whatsoever as the wheels pass through the crossing. Achieve that and you will have no problems from a running perspective with the track.

 

Hoping to get these finished today and then start on the next group of four.

Edited May 3, 2012 by gordon s

[LNERGE]

My delayed thanks for the tutorial Gordon. Having used the PCB method to construct a point I agree that the thought is worse than the deed. However, your hints and tips are really useful. I for one would never have considered a 20p piece as a modelling aid!

 

The first thing i thought of when i saw the 20p was the good Major (Olver) conducting one of his railway inspections for HMRI. He would say ''Got a 50p lad?'' and it would go between stock and switch for the facing point lock test. Good times. Super track, super model.