mossdp Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Please does anyone know which A4 locos other than Mallard that had the following features: - LNER Garter blue - Gold lettering and numbering - With valances - Corridor tender - Single or double chimney I have two models of Mallard and would like to renumber and rename one. Many thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike J Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 You have a lot to choose from. All the A4s were painted in Garter blue from 1937/8 as built or as they passed through the works, although not all had corridor tenders. Avoid the Commonwealth engines as these had raised silver numbers/lettering and painted crests on the cabside as Bittern/Dominion of New Zealand is currently. Most A4s carried a corridor tender at some point in their service. Only 7 never had one. If you post a list of your favourite renumbering/naming candidates I will let you know what period your model will be correct for. Edit;- There are two types of Streamlined corridor tender. The new Streamlined corridor type and the 1928 pattern beaded type. You can discount the new type which narrows the field a bit, as Mallard only carried a 1928 pattern corridor tender after it was exchanged from the non-corridor type she carried from new. (She now has the non-corridor type in preservation.) The type of chimney will also narrow it down. If your second Mallard has a non corridor tender and double chimney (Hornby R2339 model) we can narrow it down to just a few, but it's a minefield of cross referencing all the required elements. So I would say it's a case of what's your favourite? Does it fit? If not, what's your next favourite? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossdp Posted April 20, 2011 Author Share Posted April 20, 2011 Thank you for your helpful reply. I have a spare single chiney so can change a double to a single. It has a corridor tender. So it is those that had a corridor tender and the gold lettering and numbering - presumably only suitable for the 1930s with gold lettering unless some of the preserved examples have appeared like that since. A few favourite names to try: Golden Shuttle Golden Plover Wild Swan Sparrow Hawk Many thanks again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike J Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Ok, here we go , 4496 Golden Shuttle, (04/09/37) streamlined corridor tender as built. (1957-63 non corridor) Garter blue 04/09/37 to 30/01/42. Single chimney until 20/08/58. 4497 Golden Plover, (02/10/37)streamlined corridor tender throughout. Garter blue 02/10/37 to16/05/42. Single chimney until 11/03/58. 4467 Wild Swan, (19/02/38) non corridor tender as built. (streamlined tender 1957-63) Garter blue 19/02/38 to 11/04/42. Single chimney until30/04/58. 4463 Sparrow Hawk, (27/11/37) non corridor tender throughout. Garter blue 27/11/37 to 22/08/43. Single chimney until 05/10/57. Hope this helps. 4496 and 4497 should be ok for your conversion. Good luck. Best wishes, Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed-farms Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 4496 and 4497 should be ok for your conversion. Assuming he is not bothered about the double chimney. Only 4 A4's had a double chimney with valences 4468 Mallard 4901Capercaillie 4902 Seagull 4903 Peregrine Not sure which of these had what tender in the 1930's but they all would have had gold lettering on blue with valences. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike J Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Assuming he is not bothered about the double chimney. Only 4 A4's had a double chimney with valences 4468 Mallard 4901Capercaillie 4902 Seagull 4903 Peregrine Not sure which of these had what tender in the 1930's but they all would have had gold lettering on blue with valences. Yep, noted that a single chimney is available for the conversion, non of the double chimney A4s had a streamlined tender from new, (although Seagull, Peregrine and Mallard acquired a 1928 pattern beaded tender later) so as the model has a corridor tender none of these is suitable unless they exchanged the tenders prior to going into wartime black. I'll have to do some digging to confirm one way or the other . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossdp Posted April 20, 2011 Author Share Posted April 20, 2011 I managed to find a pictures of Golden Shuttle and at http://www.ssplprints.com/image.php?imgref=10446391. I can't work out if the loco has the silver line beading and raised silver lettering - on balance it looks as if it does. The Hornby corridor tender has a distinct ridge where the sides meet the turn in at the top but this seems absent in the photo of Golden Shuttle. Maybe they are not he same type of tender. The only picture I could find of Golden Plover is at http://www.ssplprints.com/image/127366/lner-class-a4-n-4497-golden-plover. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed-farms Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I would guess 4496 did as 4495 Golden Fleece - the other West Riding did http://www.ssplprints.com/zoom.php?height=428&image=123100&noZoom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Yes to both and on the bottom of the Loco Valence Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike J Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Talk about missing the blindingly obvious...Golden Shuttle (West Riding Limited) A clear case of not seeing the wood for the trees! Now that we know that your model has a 1928 beaded corridor tender I'm afraid that none of your choices is suitable as Golden Plover carried the new streamlined corridor tender (smooth top edge and curved back) and Golden Shuttle had the same, but with raised lettering and trim. Here's a few that you might want to consider as having the correct tender and painted numerals/lettering. You will have to install a single chimney however. 4482 Golden Eagle 4483 Kingfisher 4484 Falcon 4485 Kestrel 4486 Merlin 4487 Sea Eagle I hope that one of these proves to be suitable for your conversion. Even Mallard started life with a non corridor tender which was later exchanged for the 1928 pattern streamlined corridor type, although I have no date for this exchange. Best wishes, Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossdp Posted April 21, 2011 Author Share Posted April 21, 2011 Thank you for the additional information. I knew it might be a convoluted question but did not realise there were two types of corridor tender. I will try ot hunt down some relevant pictures. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverlink Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Thank you for the additional information. I knew it might be a convoluted question but did not realise there were two types of corridor tender. I will try ot hunt down some relevant pictures. Book of the A4's (Irwell Press) RCTS LNER Loco's Part 2A Both excellent reference, I will try and attach my own reference sheet which has details of tenders at different times, Cheers silverlink (Peasholm Models) A4 SPEC SHEET.xls Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brake Compo Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 I am reading this thread with great interest as it is something that I know nothing about; however, this picture in a album that I acquired shows Falcon with the raised chrome numerals, just post-war: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike J Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 Book of the A4's (Irwell Press) RCTS LNER Loco's Part 2A Both excellent reference, I will try and attach my own reference sheet which has details of tenders at different times, Cheers silverlink (Peasholm Models) Cheers Ian, after I spoke to you about this post at the club on Wednesday night , I knew you'd be able to come up with 'that' list which is always most useful! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike J Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 I am reading this thread with great interest as it is something that I know nothing about; however, this picture in a album that I acquired shows Falcon with the raised chrome numerals, just post-war: This is a great photo Mr. Brake Compo. It clearly shows the beading on the top of the tender and the Thompson renumbering which BR added 60000 to upon nationalisation, and the fact that Falcon was carrying raised numerals and lettering post war (as well as no valances which were removed during the war). The pre war Falcoln is shown on page 193 of "The Gresley Pacifics" O S Nock hauling the Silver Jubilee, in Garter Blue with valances, painted numerals and letters, single chimney and beaded corridor tender. Thanks for posting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossdp Posted April 26, 2011 Author Share Posted April 26, 2011 Great additional info and many thanks for posting the list of variatiions - should answer many questions. I wonder if all A4s ended up with the raised numbers or if some received the plain yellow lettering and numbering that the LNER used after the war. I must get one of the books you recommend. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike J Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 The books that I pick up first when looking for information on A4s are:- The book of the A4s (Irwell press), as Ian (Silverlink) says above. The Power of the A4s (Oxford) Locomotives in detail 3. Gresley 4-6-2 A4 class. (Ian Allan) There are others that I have, but these three seem to cover most FAQs, but one or two glaring errors mean that not everything should be taken as gospel. A photograph is always the best evidence. Also beware of captions accompanying photos as these can be misleading. Eg;- Page 63 of Locomotives in detail shows Dominion of Canada in full blue livery with stainless steel letters and numbers. It is departing King's Cross with an up express. It should be departing for King's Cross with an up express, or it is a down express. Not just any express either, it is clearly the Coronation or West Riding Ltd. So beware! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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