Timara Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Taking a break from the work on the new station building for Auchinraith, I've turned my attention to a purchase via a fellow RMwebber, and friend, il Dottore. The basis is the "Jakobwullesheim" church that I do believe may be going out of production for whatever reason. Anyway, I've got one now, so I'm not so worried about that anymore! Generally, model churches tend to be small affairs that just don't capture the sheer size of the real things. This kit is large even at 3.5mm/ft, so it certainly doesn't look out of place in 4mm/ft. As an aside, the brickwork scales up perfectly for 4mm and is a very nice match for SE Finecast (my usual choice of embossed brickwork). This church will be one of a handful of structures for my new layout "St Aidan's", based in somewhere on the north bank of the Clyde in Glasgow. More of that layout anon as I'm currently at the tracklaying stage and shall post something about that in time in the layouts board. The general architecture is of an early 20th Century neo-Romanesque building - this being a Roman Catholic example. Going back to around 2005, I remember a fellow modeller having just completed his church using the same kit, though I always felt that the kit needed "correcting" as, strictly speaking, the towers on such should be at the opposite end to the apse as against how the kit is intended to be built. Needless to say, the operation to swap things around and move the various main sections to where they really ought to be wasn't quite as straightforward as I'd thought. I'm rather glad now that I didn't buy the completed version of one of these on German eBay back in the summer.... So, some photos...... Still work in progress as there are some minor detail bits to be added such as guttering and downpipes. I haven't yet decided on a colour scheme, though red brick is currently high on the list. Lastly, a view showing the reinforcement necessary after I lowered the height of the two towers by chopping the triangular pediments off the tower pieces. I feel it's certainly improved the overall feeling of the church. While I'm thinking about the final detailing of it, can anyone suggest a suitable etched clock face or windvane at all please? I'm not too enamoured by the printed details shall we say! Cheers, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Clock faces - weather vanes - http://www.scalelink.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww.scalelink.co.uk%2facatalog%2fScale_Link_Scenic_Accessories.html&WD=clock&SHOP=%20&PN=General___Scale_1_76__OO__Varieuse.html%23aSLF009#aSLF009 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovex Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Looking good, I've been considering this kit, as a potential St Chads RC Cathedral for my model of Snow Hill. The Church is very prominent to the real station although not actually as close as I was going to put it on my model if I went ahead. I too would have to swap the towers around so would be interested to see how you've done this. Thanks for putting the photos up as well, very inspiring and may have just helped to make my mind up. Now can I really fit it in!!! I can recommend the Scale Link clock facs but personal preference would be to perhaps not fit a weather vane but go for some railings and perhaps some of the spiky ridge tiles along that roof. Some stained glass windows would look good too - Langleys might be your source there. Keep us informed of progress. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timara Posted November 22, 2011 Author Share Posted November 22, 2011 Looking good, I've been considering this kit, as a potential St Chads RC Cathedral for my model of Snow Hill. The Church is very prominent to the real station although not actually as close as I was going to put it on my model if I went ahead. I too would have to swap the towers around so would be interested to see how you've done this. Thanks for putting the photos up as well, very inspiring and may have just helped to make my mind up. Now can I really fit it in!!! I can recommend the Scale Link clock facs but personal preference would be to perhaps not fit a weather vane but go for some railings and perhaps some of the spiky ridge tiles along that roof. Keep us informed of progress. Hi rovex, Glad I wasn't alone in thinking this kit was worth going for! The tower swap is a fun job and involves getting all the pieces together in order to formulate a plan. The bottom left of the north tower is cut from the diagonally opposite south transept wall as the sacristy needs to stay at the opposite end. The roof of the sacristy isn't installed as I'm making a new one due to all the changes I've had to do. If I had the space and money, I'd have made a larger church from two kits and really made it look to true scale. The nave could be 2 bays longer and be a really imposing edifice and a half then! Still, it's good enough as it is. Footprint of this one is as per the kit - 13" long, 7" wide and now just 12" tall. Losing the excess tower height does make it look longer, which is what never grabbed me with the originals. Oh and I forgot to say, all the windows in the remainder of the tower tops have been opened out, with the exception of two in the clock tower (the south one). The north tower is the bell tower and has shortened slatted windows used. Rather like the idea of the spiky ridge tiles..... Ta for that! Cheers, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iL Dottore Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Nice work Tim (and flaming fast as well, you only got it on Saturday!). Although it's a pity that you didn't take step-by-step photos to show us how it was done (here's a link to the "before" model: http://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/produkt/Kibri/43-4-0-35392-004017-0-0-0-0-0-0-grp-de-p-0/ein_produkt.html). Some additional thoughts. Visit one of the less expensive jewellers (or watch counter at a department store) and look at the ladies watches, you may be able to find an inexpensive ladies watch of the right dimensions and with the right "face" that you could install in one of the towers. If you are going to illuminate the interior, put the led of bulb into a white translucent box which will help diffuse the light and give a more even illumination of the stained glass windows (if you go for stained glass windows (if you go for clear windows - as seen in some churches - you'll have to model the interior if you illuminate it! One other thing, most churches and cathedrals I've seen tend to be well weathered and even those recently restored will show signs of weathering around drainpipes and where gutters meet. Finally, once you have added the guttering etc., you could add a cameo of two villains nicking the lead off the roof. and add a sound system for church bell (and clock tower bell) sounds (what fun!) F Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timara Posted November 23, 2011 Author Share Posted November 23, 2011 Hello Flavio, Nice work Tim (and flaming fast as well, you only got it on Saturday!). I work fast........ Although it's a pity that you didn't take step-by-step photos to show us how it was done (here's a link to the "before" model: http://www.modellbah...in_produkt.html). My excuse (a weak one) is that after Warley, I was just too exhausted to lift the tripod and camera to do it and needed to recuperate whilst building something. Some additional thoughts. Visit one of the less expensive jewellers (or watch counter at a department store) and look at the ladies watches, you may be able to find an inexpensive ladies watch of the right dimensions and with the right "face" that you could install in one of the tower. Now there's a thought.... If you are going to illuminate the interior, put the led of bulb into a white translucent box which will help diffuse the light and give a more even illumination of the stained glass windows (if you go for stained glass windows (if you go for clear windows - as seen in some churches - you'll have to model the interior if you illuminate it!)) I've been discussing this very aspect with one of my layout crew (who knows a bit more about RC church interiors than I do - my being C-of-E) and I'm rather taken by having it painted white inside, though with a new skin of plasticard to deal with the moulding work inside. The stained glass in those he knows is plain colours in a pattern, rather than actual "pictures". IF I decide to do the interior, I'll have to model a west gallery too, complete with organ either side of the rose window. Oh and because the layout is set in 1961, there are other "fun" changes to do. The list is endless!! One other thing, most churches and cathedrals I've seen tend to be well weathered and even those recently restored will show signs of weathering around drainpipes and where gutters meet. The major consideration I have is that WW2 ended only 16 years prior to the period modelled, so there will be signs of repair, be it major or minor. More than likely this would have included the glass in almost all windows. I may end up doing some parts of the roof in conventional slate, just so it looks like a more recent repair....... Any thoughts on the general colours or shall I just go with red brickwork with the carved stone picked out slightly/very dirty? Finally, once you have added the guttering etc., you could add a cameo of two villains nicking the lead off the roof. and add a sound system for church bell (and clock tower bell) sounds (what fun!) Hmmmm, that's a thought...! That sort of thing was rife back then (and nothing much changed since), so I'll give that some thought . One thing that has cropped into my head is whether the windows would have bars across them to try and prevent vandalism or not? Cheers, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iak Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Did not Rockingham Pottery in its present form feature one of these? It does look familier Tim... Mind will it have a working organ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted November 23, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 23, 2011 Mind will it have a working organ? Probably not a good idea. Some older viewers might be jealous! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timara Posted November 23, 2011 Author Share Posted November 23, 2011 Did not Rockingham Pottery in its present form feature one of these? It does look familier Tim... Indeed it is. I remember doing work on Ian's cast gravestones back at Barrowmore in 2005. Takes one back a bit! Mind will it have a working organ? Probably not a good idea. Some older viewers might be jealous! I don't see why not, but it'd be my choice of music if I did Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Keep an eye on Lidl for offers on ladies watches - the do, every now and then rather nice ones with Roman numeral faces which would probably suit the model Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iak Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Careful with the copyright mind... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 This may help you http://www.modeltrainsoftware.com/stainedglass.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timara Posted November 23, 2011 Author Share Posted November 23, 2011 This may help you http://www.modeltrai...ainedglass.html That looks pretty cool! I shall give that one some thought..... Ta! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Mind will it have a working organ? Let us bear in mind the consensus that arose when I suggested suitable music for exhibition layouts earlier this year - none! Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonB Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Regarding RC churches and glass for windows, it should be remembered that most of the present RC churches in the UK were built long after the Reformation when Henry VIII fell out with Rome and they literally had to start again, the Anglicans having pinched moved into / taken over the historic buildings. In consequence they were often brick built and generally did not have pictorial windows, any coloured glass tending to be just patterns. (Don't intend to start a Religious argument!) I'm not sure if Lead was the preferred roofing material during the period. (Original pictorial windows were often used to depict stories from the Bible as most of the congregation would be unable to read! By the time of the (new) RC churches being built, the educational feature was largely unnecessary.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 It looks like something Pugin might have had a hand in- he did a few RC churches (100 + in total with his son). One of the most spectacular is this one in Cheadle, North Staffordshire:- http://www.stgilescatholicchurch.co.uk/stgileschurch/exterior.php Note that there are quite a few stained glass windows to be seen here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovex Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 And with the twin towers even more strikingly like this one - another Pugin masterpiece Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iL Dottore Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Finally, once you have added the guttering etc., you could add a cameo of two villains nicking the lead off the roof. and add a sound system for church bell (and clock tower bell) sounds...F Another thought, if you have two figures sitting on the roof, you'll have a 24hr valid cameo: by day they are workmen taking a tea break whilst fixing the roof, by night they're villains taking a break from nicking the lead... If you do go mad (madder?) and build an organ, I think a selection of brass tubing would represent the organ pipes quite well. Finally, on a serious note, if you decide to put a brass etched weather vane on top of a tower, put it on at the last moment as the brass etches are of thin brass and bend far too easily and they are a PITA to fix, as I found to my cost with the weather vane on my church model. F Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timara Posted November 23, 2011 Author Share Posted November 23, 2011 Another thought, if you have two figures sitting on the roof, you'll have a 24hr valid cameo: by day they are workmen taking a tea break whilst fixing the roof, by night they're villains taking a break from nicking the lead... I do rather like that one, now you come to mention it. Further musing required, which will be had tomorrow whilst heading up to Millhouses with chrisf. If you do go mad (madder?) and build an organ, I think a selection of brass tubing would represent the organ pipes quite well. Considering I did work experience with an organ builder and have spent a goodly proportion of my life studying the darn thing, organ design is very much a strongpoint. Still not fully decided on the "modelling full interior" idea yet.... Finally, on a serious note, if you decide to put a brass etched weather vane on top of a tower, put it on at the last moment as the brass etches are of thin brass and bend far too easily and they are a PITA to fix, as I found to my cost with the weather vane on my church model. F Yes, I had thought of that - great minds thinking alike? T Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Welchester Posted November 24, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 24, 2011 Regarding RC churches and glass for windows, it should be remembered that most of the present RC churches in the UK were built long after the Reformation Very little pre-Reformation stained glass remains anywhere; most of it was destroyed by Cromwell's men in the 17th century. What we have today is mainly Victorian, whether in mediaeval or what were then new churches. I suspect the main factor affecting the choice of clear or coloured glass was cost. It's a very convincing model, by the way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iL Dottore Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Considering I did work experience with an organ builder and have spent a goodly proportion of my life studying the darn thing, organ design is very much a strongpoint. A sight to see? Tim's mighty organ (OK, OK, I'll get me coat...) F Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iak Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 And we will have no comments about 8' diapasons please................... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Welchester Posted November 24, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 24, 2011 Nor Swell to Great. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JZ Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Langley do 'stained glass'. It is printed on clear acetate. It appears to be photographically reproduced. For plain leaded windows, I have used some 1mm nylon mesh(sorry, don't know a supplier) and used liquid glazing on it to get the effect of individual panes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovex Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 hi hows the ecclestiastical work coming along Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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