David Bigcheeseplant Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 I am currently building some pits for the Aylesbury layout, I have five to make two inside the shed and three outside, I just wondered if there is a standard distance from bottom of pit to rail head. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinkmouse Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 From lots of picture analysis, and a fair bit of guestimation, it seems like ash disposal pits were around 3' deep, and inspection pits about 5'. I'm quite prepared to be corrected though! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 From lots of picture analysis, and a fair bit of guestimation, it seems like ash disposal pits were around 3' deep, and inspection pits about 5'. I'm quite prepared to be corrected though! It kinda stands to reason that an inspection pit (like a garage pit) would have to be deep enough for a man to stand upright in (and actually get under a loco without having to stoop overmuch), but not so deep that he couldnt reach what he was working on. 5ft sounds about OK to me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_Ava_Hay Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 It kinda stands to reason that an inspection pit (like a garage pit) would have to be deep enough for a man to stand upright in (and actually get under a loco without having to stoop overmuch), but not so deep that he couldnt reach what he was working on. 5ft sounds about OK to me I am not entirely sure that there would be a separate ash pit and inspection pit. Certainly, the one I have worked in wasn't and was used for ash disposal as well as oiling up. I suppose it possible that an inspection pit could become only three feet deep if it was never cleaned out but an open air one would have to be cleaned or the drain blocks and the pit then starts to fill with water. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
modfather Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 around 4 foot at the marsh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 12, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 12, 2009 From lots of picture analysis, and a fair bit of guestimation, it seems like ash disposal pits were around 3' deep, and inspection pits about 5'. I'm quite prepared to be corrected though! In 'GWR Engine Sheds' the depth of a inspection/prep pit (in a Loan Act building) is given as 3ft and that seems about right to me. The same book quotes 2'6" for ashpits which struck me as shallow (I tend to think of ashpits as being much deeper but might be thinking of those at LMS sheds with tub handling?) however a brick count on a photo in the same book indicates an ashpit depth of around 2'6" from railhead level. Now it might be that GW inspection/prep pits were different from those elsewhere but 3 ft makes a lot of sense when you think of the need to access inside motion and various other oiling points. I know there are some pit drawings in the collection at Chippenham but they are also for a Loan Act depot and might not reflect practice elsewhere or at an earlier GW date. And of course one could always pop down to Didcot with a tape measure, in fact I might even do that if time allows in the coming fortnight B) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 I wonder what that man would be able to reach of a loco that is standing above such a pit? At 6ft I reckon I could reach about 2ft above my head but I would not wish to wield a heavy hammer or spanner at that reach. So a loco with wheels of 4ft diameter I could just about touch the axle. I also would find it difficult to haul myself up by the finger tips to work above axle height - that a sey of steps in the pit might help. I don't know but 5ft seems very deep to me. [Ed] - really ought to learn to type faster ... and don't forget that for ash pits someone has to stand in them (when the ash has cooled) and shovel the stuff out. Chucking a shovel full over shoulder height would be not only difficult but very messy (not that I believe it was a pleasant task anyway) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 So the pits at the NRM have been overdeepened? Page 7 of http://www.hpw-railway.org.uk/news/Newsletters/SG_JAN2009.pdf with King George V show people standing up with heads below rail level. I couldn't see how this would aid working without the aid of ladders. Or were they normally this deep and ladders used? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinkmouse Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 This was preying on my mind whilst watching the snooker, (cracking game BTW!), and between frames I glanced at a few books that were within reach of the sofa. I'll stand by my thoughts on ash pits, but there does seem to be more variance in inspection pits. A couple of indoor shots of Swindon show one about three or four feet deep, and one at about five. A pic of Willesden shows a deeper one in the shed, but one at Accrington, again in the shed, only about 18". I give up! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_Ava_Hay Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 ... and don't forget that for ash pits someone has to stand in them (when the ash has cooled) and shovel the stuff out. Chucking a shovel full over shoulder height would be not only difficult but very messy (not that I believe it was a pleasant task anyway) It was/is generally reckoned that a good soaking of the ash and particularly smokebox soot aids the job immensely. Extra weight but a good shoosh and the wet concoction flies far and accurately with no blow back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 A pic I'm looking at here (Stourbridge shed) has 10 courses of brick from the underneath of the rail to the bottom of the inspection pit. 3" of brick + 1/2"(ish) of mortar x 10 = approx 3 feet. edit. I've just found another pic (entrance to one of the sheds at )Patricroft), and it's the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy M Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 During a site visit to the former Newton Abbot (83A) shed building many moons ago, and before it was turned into an industrial estate, I measured the pits inside the running shed. The inspection pits outside the front of the shed had been filled in many years previously and the ash pits which were situated down in the lower yard alongside the coaling stage went with the arrival of the diesel servicing sheds in 1960. Anyway the surviving pits were just over 3ft in depth from bottom to chair level but had received a concrete skim at some stage. When excavating around the drain grate areas I was able to discearn the original brick footing under the concrete which would have taken the as built depth to around 3ft 6in. I think that the ash pits would have been built to a similar specification and all drawings I have studied do not suggest otherwise, but of course once filled with crud and residue appear shallower on period images. Didcot of course would be the place to check as internal and external pits still exist in working order! Regards, Andy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 I bet this is one of those 'how long is a piece of string' questions. Clear photos of the Top shed pits outside the running shed show them to be in the 2'6" to 3' range from pit floor to rail head. In some locations there may well have been duckboards providing a raised footing at the bottom of such pits, to keep feet out of standing water. Fitters were provided with steps, and would also stand on the toolchests and various trolleys and barrows which were an essential accompaniment to their work. One fitter's recollections of the joy of transferring to a shed with good inspection pit provision, was followed by a description of the tackle that had to be assembled in the pit to take down the eccentric straps on a loco with inside valve gear 'whose designer had clearly never ever considered that routine maintenance attention might be required'. As ever, whatever was provided in the way of facilities, the man on the job had to adapt and make the best of it, specific to the work to be accomplished. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilNE Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 At the end of this clip there are inspection pits Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted December 13, 2009 Author Share Posted December 13, 2009 It looks like around three foot or just a bit more, Just got to figure out how to build them now, in the shed its flat bottom rail, even a photo of 1903 it was like that, the outside pits were bullhead with chairs. I think the best methord is to build an open box and to drop it into a hole in the baseboard. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 13, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 13, 2009 It looks like around three foot or just a bit more, Just got to figure out how to build them now, in the shed its flat bottom rail, even a photo of 1903 it was like that, the outside pits were bullhead with chairs. I think the best methord is to build an open box and to drop it into a hole in the baseboard. David I've been thinking about this for the 2010 challenge and have thus far concluded that, or something like it, might be the best approach, especially if the pit is to be brick lined with the rails carried on 'something' (which would be either longitudonal timbers or concrete I think) at the upper part of the pit side. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinkmouse Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 That's how I did mine: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted December 27, 2009 Author Share Posted December 27, 2009 I went in the end for 3 foot then found a dim at 2 foot 9 inches so built them to that depth, when I added the steps at the end I had four steps rather than the three on the drawing checking the drawing I noticed it was 2 foot nine inches from rail head, so need now to decrease the depth by about 2mm. I have now made all five of the pits I need, after a few failed attempts with warping plasticard, I devised the following: laminate the walls of the pit with 40 thou inner and 20thou embossed brick on one side and plain 20 thou the other. Assemble walls on a 60 thou base. cut strips of 40 thou plastic card 14mm wide, with the pit upside down on a flat surface add the strips around the top of the pit to form a flange. I then added another 40 thou plasticard flange on the first overlapping the first layer on the corners, and then yet another layer bringing the total thickness of the flange to 3mm, using an odd number of layers hopefully it will avoid any in the structure, and make things quite strong. I will try to post some photos later. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan-Leeds Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 At haworth shed on the keighley and worth valley railway the two pits outside are Roughly 3.5/ 4 Feet deep with the three indoor pits about four feet deep with steps at either end and lights built in Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonB Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 The pit under the "King" at the NRM is overdeep to allow the general populace to walk under without banging heads on the motion, provided that you are less than about 6ft tall. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 With a view to keeping all the 'good info' together in one place, rather than ask a question in a new thread I'll ask it here and hope it surfaces!! It's to do with drainage, and while I'm pretty sure that Inspection Pits would be so facilitated, is it the case that Ash Pits had none???... otherwise, wouldn't all the sludge block a drain after a heavy downpour. I'm about to fit Peco examples and am thinking I should blank off the drain grills/covers in the Ash Pit one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamsRadial Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 The pit at Cranmore is both an ash pit and an inspection pit. When I stand in it I have to duck my head to get in under the loco, but not so deep that I have to go on hands and knees. Standing up, my head is about right to get cracked against the axle of a 56xx 0-6-2T if I move backwards incautiously, and I know from last week that my eye-line is lower than the gland for the valves. There is a sump at one end of the pit with a pump to get rid of residual water during washouts, after the locos have been drained outside. I'd say 3' deep at the most. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.