Michael Delamar Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 hi chaps id like your expert opinions on what shade of green this could be and any recommendations on what to use please. as far as I know it is not documented what shade was used on the prototype. to me it looks like similar to LNER apple green, I cant find anything close in the Halfords range so it will have to be a proper model railway colour I would think,,, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted August 24, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 24, 2012 Really tricky question to answer! Colour rendition will not be the same on each person's computer. For my money, the answer would be no. The green on that loco has a much greyer tone to it - almost an olive green. But that could just be because it was not given the gloss finish that we associate with top link ECML locos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 To my, admittedly old eyes, it looks like the Doncaster shade, maybe a little too dark for Darlington? However it's hard to be sure, for we have to allow for the original film on which the photo was shot which will have had a colour bias of some sort. then the "filter" of the print which will also have a bias, and then, of course, the laptop screen I'm looking at! (seriously, they all have some sort of colour bias). Oh, and then the lighting plays a part, and the dirt clinging to the paint. If the colour that the MD&HB is documented somewhere it's quite likely to be labelled "green", or if you are very lucky "mid green" or some such helpful term. Even talking to someone who knew the locos is going to run up against the memory factor. Go ahead, paint the model LNER apple green and then stand ready to defend your choice against the carpers....... Chaz PS I love the banana vans in the first photo. Whilst on the subject of colour it's interesting that the buffer heads on the van look much the same as the dirty bauxite paint..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted August 24, 2012 Author Share Posted August 24, 2012 crikey is there a difference between Doncaster and Darlington? didnt know that one. the avonside at the top, the sandbox shade at the rear of it looks LNERish to me, but then look at the shade of the rear bunker looks totally different. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted August 24, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 24, 2012 It is certainly always asserted that there was a different shade of green at Darlington. May not really be true as such. Locos painted at Crewe came out a different shade of red (maroon/crimson lake) to those painted at Derby. They were using the same paint but on a different undercoat. There are all sorts of variables involved - not least the material that your model is built in and the lighting on your layout. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted August 24, 2012 Author Share Posted August 24, 2012 ideally id like the shade to be close or a bit lighter, can then be weathered the colour was done "in house" around 1953, the original colour was black. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigherb Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Looks between LNER and Malachite green closer to Malachite green to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted August 24, 2012 Author Share Posted August 24, 2012 in this shot it does look a lot brighter, but all the colours in this shot are very vibrant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMJ Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 The loco below is HC MDHB 36 (bottom) on my Leeds Engine site. A similar shade is the HE (top) at Haworth KWVR. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 crikey is there a difference between Doncaster and Darlington? didnt know that one. Well, yes, they were said to differ. It's quite possible that it was a legacy of the pre-grouping colours, with the North Eastern's green being (so it is said) quite a bit lighter than the Great Northern's. I don't think they would have just chucked the paint away because it didn't conform - that wouldn't have been Gresley's style anyway - has was all for allowing a measure of local autonomy. I believe one of the paint ranges (possibly Precision) sell both LNER greens. Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted August 24, 2012 Author Share Posted August 24, 2012 I wouldnt normally totally trust preserved loco's. the Avonside that is owned by Liverpool museums, no 1 is painted green but that was done when they preserved it, it was always black. the same with the Hunslet diesel preserved at Haworth, that was black too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium zarniwhoop Posted August 25, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 25, 2012 From the initial question, I guess you want an aerosol, and mixing your own shade is definitely out of order. Looking at my own test panels, railmatch 621 - Darlington green seems pretty close. In *my* light, railmatch 632 Malachite green actually looks darker. Conversely, railmatch 620 Doncaster green, or apple green, came out as a much darker - almost olive - shade for me. But, all of them are darker than your photos. Perhaps a white undercoat would be useful. What *you* see, or indeed the nuances of my test panels in interior light compared to daylight, is another matter entirely. To me, green is a *very* hard colour to match - the first two photos look toned-down, although the red is quite prominent. From memory, I would guess Agfa [ I was always a Kodak user ], and the third is warmer, with definitely more yellow. For my own interests, particularly BR(S), I've now decided that life is too short to worry about getting the colours spot-on - there is also the influence of the layout's lighting. ĸen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted August 25, 2012 Author Share Posted August 25, 2012 To me, green is a *very* hard colour to match tell me about it, I spent a long time debating and researching the shade used for Thunderbird 2, but thats another story Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted August 25, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 25, 2012 I thought it was more of an apple green, I remember chasing Lucy or Efficient around Birkenhead docks in the 1970s when it worked a special - but that may be a preservation colour Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted August 25, 2012 Author Share Posted August 25, 2012 the footage of Lucy on the Birkenhead docker looked lighter to me, but the colour lucy is preserved now looks close, its been repainted recentley so maybe someone at the Ribble steam centre knows. http://www.ribbleste.../stock/136-lucy did Hunslet themselves have their own shade of green? as they took over the overhauling of the Mersey docks locos in the 1950s which is when some started to appear in green rather than black Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted August 25, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 25, 2012 My green MDHB locos are painted in Humbrol No.2 green. Weathering changes the appearance a great deal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted August 25, 2012 Author Share Posted August 25, 2012 thanks Mike this is the only other colour shot I think I have, close up of a much larger image. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted August 25, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 25, 2012 I am with Mike Edge on this one. I think his model is about as close a rendition of that shade of green as anybody is likely to be able to get. Doncaster Green, or Apple Green, or Grass Green, is a horrible colour to get right on a model or even on a preserved loco. When you look at the various RTR locos and indeed preserved locos that are running about, there are massive variations. The best looking colour I have seen for ages is on the recently outshopped preserved B12. The B1 Mayflower was in a very similar if not identical colour last time I saw it. I was with the late Malcolm Crawley, former LNER employee, when we saw it and he was adamant that Mayflower was absolutely the right colour! Malcolm always reckoned that he could tell a Darlington paint job from a Doncaster one, as the Darlington green had slighly more blue in it, which may well have been a throw back to NER days. He built many model locos, around 20 in LNER green livery but he was never satisfied with any of the propritary paints and always mixed his own, usually by adding more yellow to the paint as supplied. Despite his best efforts, he only reckoned that he got the mix right on one or two. Even the NRM seems to have got it wrong on this one. Malcolm was involved with the build of Tornado and the restoration of the preserved N2 to running condition. When the NRM was approached regarding colour samples, what they supplied was quite a way off, which is possibly why "Green Arrow" was running in such a funny colour. I am lucky enough to have inherited a couple of samples of genuine LNER Apple Green paint and it is a colour that, when it is "right" looks lovely but when it is slightly off it looks awful! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted August 25, 2012 Author Share Posted August 25, 2012 it is tricky, ideally i would like it a light pastel/faded shade. when its lighter I think it looks better. I agree that weathering,varnish and also lining will make a difference. I also think that the newer Hudswell clarke diesels where another darker shade., but im totally open to anyone who disagrees. 154 Looking from Park Street towards Sefton St by edgehillsignalman, on Flickr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted August 25, 2012 Author Share Posted August 25, 2012 My green MDHB locos are painted in Humbrol No.2 green. Weathering changes the appearance a great deal Mike, there is a shot of your 7mm Mersey docks Hunslet you built on Ian Rathbones site, did he paint it or just line it as it looks spot on scroll down a bit its in the gallery here.. http://www.ianrathbo...painting.co.uk/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted August 25, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 25, 2012 Ian painted the 7mm No.31 but he uses cellulose paint to his own specification as far as I know - to me that looks a bit too yellow. The later Hudswells were definitely a darker shade of green, not sure about the earlier Hudswells, I haven't seen a colour photo of one of these. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted August 25, 2012 Author Share Posted August 25, 2012 , not sure about the earlier Hudswells, I haven't seen a colour photo of one of these. ive seen these on 28dayslater, all taken on the same day and shows the problem of light, first one is in the shade. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted August 26, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 26, 2012 I'd forgotten about those two - good excuse to run an industrial loco on BR track though. Judging by the clean condition No37 has just been delivered from Leeds, might not have been quite so clean when it got to the other end of Waterloo tunnel though. This looks like the same shade of green as the steam locos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted August 26, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 26, 2012 it is tricky, ideally i would like it a light pastel/faded shade. when its lighter I think it looks better. I agree that weathering,varnish and also lining will make a difference. I also think that the newer Hudswell clarke diesels where another darker shade., but im totally open to anyone who disagrees. 154 Looking from Park Street towards Sefton St by edgehillsignalman, on Flickr Great Central "Brunswick Green" anybody? Or is that just my wishful thinking..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 Great Central "Brunswick Green" anybody? Or is that just my wishful thinking..... GCR green, hmmm, well it certainly looks like it to me. But with all that's been said above about the difficulty of matching any colour when all you have to go on is preserved locos carrying best-guess liveries and colour photos reproduced in albums, who knows? Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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