RichardEyre Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 So I've bitten the bullet and started to build the shunting layout I've been planning (you may have seen the thread under Layout & Track Design). A quick summary: set in the early 1960s on a bleak, cold, horrible winter's day. There are 3 industries in a small yard with a loop, it's a few hundred yards away from a larger marshalling yard and freight is brought by shunter as required. There's a warehouse and heating oil unloading terminal at the read, and a biscuit factory at the front. Here's the track plan: I hesitate to say "baseboards" as they're more like boxes. There are 2 2'x1' boards, each built as a 6 sided box. The only openings are the middle, front and fiddle yard end. The fiddle yard itself sits behind and within the biscuit factory. This is the view from the operating end: Note there are no openings in the top, and also no lighting rig. This is to keep the layout dark to fit with the bleak theme. There will be building, yard and vehicle lights which will hopefully lend a bit of atmosphere. The big problem at the minute is actually seeing what I'm doing though! As always, comments and questions are much appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjcampbell Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 This is my kind of layout! Nice plan, it should provide good operating interest. I missed your thread on it's design, I'd allow for cassettes or loco-lifts in the fiddle yard to add more interest although not strictly necessary. If you are interested I have a suggestion for easy cassettes: http://michaelsrailw.../cassettes.html What kind of couplings do you intend to use? With a closed box design I guess you'll need auto-couplings, but short and curved sidings cause problems with some kinds. You've done a neat job of the boards. I presume you needed two split the board for storage, as it would have been easier to make as one board, and store on end. I can understand you want a bleak appearance, but I think you should allow for lighting - otherwise it will just be dingy, and you won't be able to see details, also the light will be uneven and variable according to how near the front things are, and the ambient lighting. Fluorescent tubes would give an overcast look, but can't easily be dimmed. LED strips might work well, you could switch in more strips to increase light, and they should be easy to install - although they might benefit from some kind of diffuser, I've seen paper used for that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardEyre Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 Hi Michael, A few people suggested cassettes to me on the planning thread but I'm still not sure. There's only ever going to be one loco working at a time (I might change every so often for variety through the day) so lifting that off isn't something I'm looking for. Then the wagons will be added and removed randomly so I won't have any block trains to move around either. On top of that, the fiddle yard road has a slight curve as it comes off the point to bring it into an easier position to access, Currently the plan is to use flat aluminium instead of track to make rerailing as easy as possible and simply place the wagons on. Your cassettes look good though. I looked for some U section like that when building mine for Millfield South but it was all too large or rounded so I ended up with stripwood. Couplings will be auto. I've been playing with Brian Kirby tension locks with a modification for delayed release -- sorry, I've lost the link so I can't give due credit. Basically there's a piece of wire that rests on the bar of the other wagon's coupling when the arm is raised, preventing re-coupling until you pull back. If I can't make these work, then I'll look into kadees. The uncoupling positions will likely be in either side of the loop, then using the delayed action to push back into the sidings. Glad you think they're neat. Yes, the split is for storage as it will sit under the fiddle yard of Millfield South. It's also a little bit for transportation, as this way it'll (easily) fit in a hatchback with the seats still up, an extra operator and all the stock. I do want to avoid any kind of top-down lighting like most exhibition layouts have. As you say, it highlights the details, but does make all layouts look like it's a bright sunny day, and I wanted to try something different. I'm not ruling out any kind of overall lighting at this stage but I want to see what it's like using only scenic light sources before doing anything drastic like cutting holes in the top. The back of the layout will have some quite high walls and buildings, so it would be naturally darker anyway but we'll see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjcampbell Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Cassettes have the advantage if you ever exhibit, that a train can be swapped out quickly, allowing you to carry on with a new train and re-arrange the other one in a quiet moment. Of course should that ever be an issue there is nothing to stop you adding them in later, perhaps using modified loco-lifts*, and if need be having a short extension shelf for exhibitions only. However it is not essential, and the aluminium sounds ingenious. * I've seen somewhere a loco-lift cut into two (or more) sections, with a piece of track permamently attatched to one end, the other being able to fit over the end of a track on the layout, and form a removable track. Might have been in RM... I like Kadees (and Microtrains for my NG stuff), but be aware the couplings (and so the wagons they are on) need to be straight in-line for coupling and uncoupling to be reliable. You might find your flowing trackwork makes that difficult! Tension locks might be OK, and something like B&B coulings would be an option. I suggest experimentation before scenics progress too far in case you need to move magnets etc. Lighting does not have to provide the sunny day effect - think how stage lighting is managed and can be used to provide different effects. Scenic light sources will be interesting, I can see the dusk / winter evening look working well! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardEyre Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 I've done quite a bit of research into different couplings but haven't come across B&B. A quick Google shows some references but nothing more, do you have a link you can post? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjcampbell Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I've never used them myself but know others that did - in 00 and 009 - a few years ago. They are of the loop-over-peg on a buffer design. No website I can find either but I did find a reference to the maker's address: http://philsworkbench.blogspot.co.uk/2011/03/b-couplings.html Similar couplings are DG's and Greenwich, also the Sprat & Winkle may be of interest. DG and S&W can be found here: http://www.wizardmodels.co.uk/FrameSetShop.php?DM=wizabout Greenwich are intended for 009 but could be used for 00: http://www.parksidedundas.co.uk/acatalog/GREENWICH.html These are all etched brass with wire parts, and require assembly. I used DG's a few years ago for 009, they were fiddly to assemble for auto operation and needed to be well adjusted, but I have seen them work well. Greenwich are popular in 009, appear easier to construct and again can work well. All of this "loop over peg" type benefit from having loops at one end of stock only. I hope that helps, but with couplings there is never a perfect choice, so I fear it hasn't! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardEyre Posted September 3, 2012 Author Share Posted September 3, 2012 Thanks for those, Michael. I've bought a pack of Kaddees to experiment with. So far the biggest benefit over others mentioned is that stock can be lifted straight out, which will be useful given such a short fiddle yard. As for other progress, track has been cut to length, test fit and soldered to screws over the baseboard joints. The main power plug has been added and connected in, so board 2 now has both AC and DC! However my 16VAC transformer (split from a Gaugemaster combi) actually gives closer to 20V, meaning my DC supply is 17.7V. Anyone know if this might cause issues with my Gaugemaster HH controller, which says input of 16VAC? (Note that that's what the combi says also) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjcampbell Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 I like Kadees. As I said before the issue might be having enough straight to uncouple on - probably about 6 inches for short stock - and also recoupling on too-tight a curve does not happen. Experiment at this stage and you might be able to adjust away these issues. Could you be confusing peak-to-peak and RMS (average) voltage? A peak-to-peak of 20V would equate to about 14V RMS. Sorry if you know this already ...! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardEyre Posted September 3, 2012 Author Share Posted September 3, 2012 I did do some mock shunting while figuring out where I needed uncoupling points and they coupled up fairly consistently. However, I was using lots of different wagons, so I doubt I tried with kadees everywhere. Will have a proper check when I next work on it. Thanks for pointing that out early. I could very well be confusing things - I'm no electrical engineer - but I think that's RMS. I checked with my multimeter and those are the numbers it says. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardEyre Posted September 10, 2012 Author Share Posted September 10, 2012 So work has progressed on the electrical front. All the power and control elements are in place, awaiting point motors and the rest of the track feeds. The siding on the biscuit factory is wired up and the first train has run! I'm amazed at the slow speed control possible with the feedback controller. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warspite Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Richard I've just enjoyed reading your thread in the Layout & Track Design section. Glad you resisted the temptation to add a passenger station! The trackplan looks very good and should provide for some interesting shunting. Have you given any more thought to lighting? I agree that the 'bleak' theme will work well, particularly in the industrial location, but think some diffused strip lights along the front top could work. However, you may need to add a fascia strip at the front to hide the lights if there is no recess in the box. Just a thought. Looking forward to seeing this one progress. Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardEyre Posted September 10, 2012 Author Share Posted September 10, 2012 Hi Stephen, The 'no passenger' rule is pretty much the only definite on this one. Millfield South is (read: will be) preserved passenger so the only scope for goods is demonstration trains, and even then they aren't accurate. The plan is still to build without it using on on-scene light sources only and see if it needs anything else once complete. Obviously the issue is that the lighting will be dependent on the orientation of the layout vs any natural light. It's not so bad when you can flood the layout to make a bright day, but it's tricky when you actually want less light than you've got. I went to Shipley at the weekend and they had a couple of layouts set in similar lighting that used black sheets to block out any natural light, which worked well. As well as the amount of light, there's the issue of colour too. One (probably far-fetched) idea of mine is to use tri-colour LEDs to vary the colour and intensity of the light according to each situation. This would effectively be a white balance control like on a camera (he says...) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Glad you resisted the temptation to add a passenger station! I think that was entirely due to me butting in on the previous topic! It does complicate things, as my current playing around with Templot is proving, and definitely not to be considered unless you have passenger stock that would otherwise spend even more years unseen in boxes! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardEyre Posted October 11, 2012 Author Share Posted October 11, 2012 Hi Everyone, The wiring has been finished and point motors installed. Hurrah! Also, after much experimentation with Kadee uncouplers I've figured out that they just won't work (well enough) with the radii where I need to uncouple. Therefore I've switched to tension locks with Brian Kirby modifications. Uncoupling is achieved by 2 6x3mm neodymium magnets installed in holes drilled into the baseboard, as can be seen in the following photos: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjcampbell Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Much as I like Kadees and dislike tension-locks, I'm not surprised! I've not seen that conversion for magnetic operation before though, simple and effective. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardEyre Posted December 28, 2012 Author Share Posted December 28, 2012 Just a post with the updates to Highfield Road. Not much as I've been busy at home, work and with the club layout. I've added the aluminium for the fiddle yard, which is simply glued to a piece of cork which has been sanded down to provide the correct height. A note for anyone else trying this - apparently you can't solder to aluminium - so you have to think of another means to supplying track power. Also down is the cork between the rails. I know most people lay it under the track, but I've done the complete opposite and laid it wherever there isn't track. This is to raise the ground level up, giving the impression of old, run down track with barely visible sleepers. Hopefully ballast should follow shortly! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjcampbell Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 A note for anyone else trying this - apparently you can't solder to aluminium - so you have to think of another means to supplying track power. No you can't, well not by normal means. Drill a hole for a small bolt to trap a wire, or solder to a brass washer - you've probably found a way by now! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardEyre Posted December 28, 2012 Author Share Posted December 28, 2012 Drill a hole for a small bolt to trap a wire I did! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted December 28, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 28, 2012 Hi Richard, just found your thread and like it. By sheer chance I visited a biscuit factory in 1966 and it was rail served. It was Carrs in Carlisle served off the old North British network near Carlisle canal shed. They got flour and other raw materials in vans and sent out the biscuits in the same 4 wheel vans. BR locos weren't allowed into the factory so it was shunted by a fireless steam loco which obviously didn't emit any noxious fumes. It was filled up from the factory boiler twice a day. It could be a nice little project for you to add to the layout. A little 0-4-0 fireless. I might even ahve a photo somewhere. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardEyre Posted December 30, 2012 Author Share Posted December 30, 2012 Thanks, Jamie. That's useful background info, though it does sound like I might not need my bulk grain wagons... I think building a fireless loco is a little beyond by expertise at the moment, but it's a definite idea for the future. There's a German prototype that might look about right in OO, but it is a little on the pricey side. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjcampbell Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Ooh, sounds interesting. Should be possible with a Pug chassis (remember, cylinders at the back), a piece of plastic tube (or half a suitable size tank wagon), some plastic sheet and perhaps the cab of an Airfix Pug! I wonder if anyone makes a kit? There's certainly one in 009. Be prepared for comments like "Your body is on back-to-front" and "where's the chimney?" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardEyre Posted December 30, 2012 Author Share Posted December 30, 2012 I'll certainly bare that in mind, Michael. I'd definitely have to invest in some brave pills before I build any locos though! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted December 30, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 30, 2012 Thanks, Jamie. That's useful background info, though it does sound like I might not need my bulk grain wagons... I think building a fireless loco is a little beyond by expertise at the moment, but it's a definite idea for the future. There's a German prototype that might look about right in OO, but it is a little on the pricey side. I'll have to dig through my old negatives. I had a week's railrover in August 1966 which cost me £1-2-6d (£1.12.5p to you youngsters) I had the freedom of the northwest from Skipton to Southport and up to Gretna and everything north and west of that. During the week I got a tour of Kingmoor shed and the trip round the biscuit factory system and even got to drive the fireless which had been built for an admiralty ammunition depot originally I believe. It's the only standard gauge steam I ever drove. I will go up to the loft and do some searching. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 It's the only standard gauge steam I ever drove. Funnily enough, the only standard gauge steam loco I ever drove was one of the Huntley and Palmers fireless ones, on just about the last day they operated. My big brother worked there, although not on the railway. I've got some not at all good photos somewhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardEyre Posted December 31, 2012 Author Share Posted December 31, 2012 It looks like my visualisation skills have let me down. The loading bay won't work on the right where it's shown on the plan and I've had to swap it with the fuel area. Now that the warehouse and factory are on the same side, I wonder if it doesn't make sense to turn the whole layout into the factory? But I don't want to loose the fuel unloading point if I can help it. Does anyone know how likely that arrangement would be? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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