Coal empties for the ECML

[Loxborough]

Hello all,

 

Meakin Bros, my current ECML (around Tallington) layout is on hold while I get a new railway room sorted out. Keeping it in the workshop just wasn't working; in the way and too much dust flying around.

 

So, what to do in the evenings in the meantime?

 

I've got precious little in the way of Rolling stock ready for the layout, so thought I could usefully occupy myself building some trains. When the layout is finished I see it having a number of 'block' trains, held together with three links/buckeye lookalikes, and some 'shunting' trains using S&W, and I have a pretty good idea of what these trains will be. Being a systematic type of guy, I have decided to try to do one train at a time, starting with the least glamorous (coal empties) and working up to the most glamorous (something silver with people in it...)

 

So, coal empties.

 

Inserting some back story about a North London coal user (gasworks?) set up to recieve their coal in hoppers, I will be inserting a number of hopper wagons in the train.

 

Despite David Geen making a perfectly good kit of the ex NER P4 hopper (one of which I am buying) I have decided to start things off with a scratchbuild of this popular wagon (28 000 built in various variants).

 

Starting with the floor. Complicated by the need to situate the hopper doors at the bottom of the sole plate, while keeping them clear of the wheels.

 

Top side, showing the planks of the hopper doors;

 

 

And the underneath, showing the rough as you like butchering to make space for the wheels;

 

 

The sides, from 1mm plasticard, with planks scribed and all roughed up with sandpaper to give distressed wood look;

 

 

The ends, similarly treated;

 

 

All built up into the basic box;

 

 

And , finally for this post, the box with standards from the excellent (and really useful) Alan Gibson wagon strapping etch (you will see more, oh so much more, from this etch over coming posts...)

 

 

Next job is to fit the sloping planking to the interior of the hopper. I am expecting this to involve a good deal of muttered profanity as I get the diagonals just that little bit wrong...

 

Thanks for taking a look,

 

George

 

[simon hudson]

I'm thinking on the same lines I have a couple of Dave Green kits as well, but I modelling the Lambton system I had thought about doing it the same way as yourself. I'm interested to see how or what you are going to use for axleboxes and W irons

[jwealleans]

a good deal of muttered profanity as I get the diagonals just that little bit wrong...

 

No different to the kit, then, really.

[Loxborough]

Well, there were some muttered profanities, but I managed to get the thing together with rather lass messsing about than I ahd expected. Wonderful how you can close joints by drowning them in MekPak and pushing hard with the Blunt end of a paint brush!

 

Results;

 

 

 

 

Best,

 

George

[LNER4479]

Rather nice my friend 

 

I'm being a coward and trying to avoid scratchbuilding wagons for my project. Despite the apparent variety of kits to go at, it's surprising how many prototypes just aren't covered for a fair representation of the pre-war era. Thanks for the inspiration - looks like I'll be encouraged into having a go myself in due course!

[Loxborough]

I'm thinking on the same lines I have a couple of Dave Green kits as well, but I modelling the Lambton system I had thought about doing it the same way as yourself. I'm interested to see how or what you are going to use for axleboxes and W irons

 

Axel boxes will be the 51L NER No 2 oïl axelboxes, which conveniently come with the springs. Photos in Tatlow seem to indicate that these are right. For the W irons I am going to have to butcher some (I think) Bill Bedford RCH W irons which I found in the bottom of a box, and the brake gear (question you didn't ask) will be from the Bill Bedford 10' whellbase brake gear etch. This will have to undergo some minor tweaking to bring it to 10'6"; not yet properly worked out how that is going to happen.

 

All of which will be shown on here in due course...

 

Thanks for the interest,

 

George

[Loxborough]

A little more detailing, first on the hopper doors;

 

 

and then on the outside;

 

 

Things have pretty much stopped there firstly because I am waiting for a delivery of rivet transfers from Archers to do the soleplate and other detailing, and also because I have had to go to work, an exercise which involves me being away from any possibility of modelling for three weeks.... Advantage is that it is lovely and warm.

 

Best to all,

 

George

 

 

[James]

That looks lovely!

 

How many hours do you reckons in the build so far?

[Loxborough]

That looks lovely!

 

How many hours do you reckons in the build so far?

 

Surprisingly little; I tend to go and do 10-20 minute spells when I can't stand looking at my computer any more (I work from home when not 'away'). All told therefore I wouldn't say more than about 4-5 hours.

 

Any particular reason you ask?

 

George

[James]

Yes, because we were considering scratchbuilding NER hoppers in batches, so time is a consideration for us in this case. I wonder if we could reduce times by batch building? I'll admit that cost is a factor - a long train of whitemetal kits becomes stupdily expensively if you're not careful!

[Phil Traxson]

I reckon it would be possible to resin cast that body as is in a two part mould. I've already done a batch of NE iron ore hoppers in 7mm as a private commission and the sides of them were only around 20 thou thick.

 

If I wasn't so busy at the moment I would be very tempted to offer to have a go.

 

Using a two part mould would not damage what you have already if it did not work out but I am 90% sure it would.

 

I already do a wooden hopper in 7mm narrow gauge but that is separate sides, ends and floor/underframe.

 

Phil Traxson

Port Wynnstay Models 

 

 

 

 

[Loxborough]

This is an intriguing thought, and one which takes things in an unexpected direction. I'll PM you late today when I have given it some thought.

 

G

[Phil Traxson]

This is an intriguing thought, and one which takes things in an unexpected direction. I'll PM you late today when I have given it some thought.

 

G

How persuasive can you be?

 

Phil T.

[Lambton58]

Hi

Simon H has alerted me to this build and I have to say that's looking rather tasty.   Nice one. 

I like your idea of 10-20 minute spells of work.  Seems like a productive way of actually getting stuff done.

Cheers

Ralph
Lambton58

[Loxborough]

Back from work now, if only for a week, so spending some time 'doing Daddy little trains' as my daughter puts it or 'sticking miniscule bits of plastic to miniscule bits of metal' as my wife prefers to see it...

 

So, here they are, the collection of little bits of plastic and metal;

 

 

And there it will stop for a little while, as I have so enjoyed this little project that I have another two on the production line, each slightly different from the others (with over 20K of these things built, it is not surprising that there were a number of variations, and I have found images of at least four differing wagons, so here we go...). I get less out of painting than I think any other part of the hobby, so will save up the 'pleasure' and paint these all in a batch.

 

Quite apart, from which, I happen to think that models, especially ones with brass and whitemetal parts, often look best in this format. 

 

George

 

Edit for typos...

[Loxborough]

Eeeek. Just reviewed that last post and noticed all the flash around the axle box. Out with a new scalpel blade tomorrow evening.

 

G

[farren]

Thats a super little model very nicely done. I was wondering if at one stage you were going make some molds to speed up the building of the rake. Looking forward to seeing the difference between the prototypes you are planning to build.

[Phil Traxson]

Excellent piece of modelling there, not many models will stand that sort of close up, looking forward to the rest of the wagons.

 

As for the flash on the axlebox, photo's are really cruel especially magnified on a computer monitor.

 

I repainted my 0-16.5 diesels from green to blue and they looked fine, but in photo's on the computer you can still see what looks like obvious traces of the green. When I tried to rectify it I struggled to find the fault at normal size. 

 

Phil T.

[simon hudson]

Absolutely super it certainly looks the part and to my eyes looks much more lifelike than the W/M kit.You have certainly given me some food for thought.I have checked and double checked the Lambton drawings and I 'm pretty sure they are the same only difference is the Lambton hoppers have an extra plank added

[Loxborough]

Thanks for the great feedback, guys. First ever wagon scratchbuild so it's great to have folk like you telling me I am going in roughly the right direction! 

 

No, Farren, I am not plannning to go in to mass production using molds; these wagons would have been a little out of their area on the southern section of the ECML, so while I can probably justify 3 or 4 hidden in a train of more usual stuff, running out a long rake of them would have been taking modeller's licence a little far.

 

Simon; I have ordered one of the David Geen whitemetal models, so it will be interesting to see how my efforts really do compare. As for the Lambton 6 plank wagons you mention, I Wonder if they look anything like this;

 

 

which is coming along as No 2 in my series, and is based on the image on p50 of Tatlow vol 2?

 

Hmm, looking at the photo I see a problem with one of the 2 bolt strapping pieces. Irritating, but I think I will be able to live with that, once it is painted...

 

More modelling planned for tonight; the idea is to get three complete and primed before I go back to work on Tuesday...

 

George

[Loxborough]

Further progress on the P4s. Amazing variety of strapping options I have found in images. I'll get these three done and, depending on how I feel about them, I may even run a couple off. 

 

 

Paint soon...

 

George

[simon hudson]

Simon; I have ordered one of the David Geen whitemetal models, so it will be interesting to see how my efforts really do compare. As for the Lambton 6 plank wagons you mention, I Wonder if they look anything like this;

 

 

 

George

The Lambton wagons have rounded ends and the strapping is different but looking very similar.

I have the original Tatlows L.N.E.R Wagons (vol 1?) so looks like I will have to get the next vol.

Re the Lambton hoppers there is a good article on the Lambton Locomotive Trust site "Running an Edwardian Railway"

Simon

[Loxborough]

Simon,

 

I have just spent a very pleasurable half hour of what was supposed to be client time reading up on the Lambton. Interesting indeed.

 

The wagon drawing (and the various images) clearly show a 6 plank P4 derivative, though why they should have gone to the bother of ading an extra plank while keeping the rating at 10T is a little beyond me.

 

Also, looking at Tatlow, it seems clear that the 1000 odd 10T wagons bought from the NER up to 1904 can only have been P4s, though why the NER was selling wagons which can't have been more than 12 years old, and of a diagram which they would continue to build for another 10 years, is equally mysterious.

 

Oh, and I did some modelling,too. Second wagon ready for the paintshop;

 

 

And the first two for comparison;

 

 

Two or three little issues shown up by the camera which I will correct before painting. And one which I will not; the schoolboy error on the brakes. Comes of modelling beyond midnight, I suspect, but I really can't be bothered to take the brakes apart to put it right.

 

Wagon 3 on hold because I have run out of appropriate buffers and, being an idiot, I managed to drill straight through an axlebox while widening it out to receive the bearing, so will have to get some more of them from 51L too.

 

George

[Loxborough]

First two ex-works, ready for weathering;

 

 

The hopper interiors from above;

 

 

A detail on one of the hopper interiors (why on earth have I gone to this much trouble to detail and fininsh the Inside of a wagon????

 

 

And details on paint finish. On the first wagon I went for old, distreesd wood;

 

 

while on the second I went for newer wood, but poorly applied paint;

 

 

Weathering (very light) tonight.

 

George

[simon hudson]

I think you will be disapointed if you go for the W/M kits those wagons are the buisness. Thanks for sharing-Simon