Industrial Diesel Fuelling Points

[highpeakman]

I am constructing a layout based on a Peak District quarry in the early 60s. The private owner quarry section will make use of both steam and diesel locos. I have ploughed through lots of photos of such sites and searched on the web but have not, so far, been able to come up with any pictures showing how such diesel locos were fuelled.

 

I would guess that larger sites would have fuel tanks, pumps, etc. but what about the smaller sites with just one or two locos? Did they just make use of a tanker lorry to pump fuel in or just pump it out of drums?

 

I would appreciate any advice, pictures or comment on this please. Thanks.

 

Don

[Beatty 139]

Some Industrial diesel loco were fitted with hoses and and a semi rotary pump to allow fueling from a 45 gallon drum.

 

It was a standard fitting on Planet SCW class locos and the pump were fitted on the outside of the cab on the rear above the RHS buffer with a hose for the barrel and a fixed pipe feeding into the tank inside the back of the cab..

 

Others had them under the bonnet sides, I have seen a couple of Ruston locos like this but I can say if they are factory fitted or been done on site.

 

Andy

[Fat Controller]

I'm sure I've seen photos taken at Peak Forest, showing one or more of the industrial diesels stabled next to a small fuel tank; it looks as though this was where DBS now have their fuelling point.

Bear in mind that the loco fuel would only be a small proportion of the diesel consumed on site; there'd be 'red' diesel for the locos and plant, and ordinary diesel for the road fleet. What might happen is that the fuel supplier's tanker would deliver to the main fuel store, and a road bowser would take fuel to those items of plant that would normally stay near the quarry face. Such bowsers are still to be seen on big construction sites, opencast workings and so on. For the 1960s, the Bedford QL from the Airfix Aircraft Refuelling set would be the sort of thing you'd find.

[highpeakman]

Some Industrial diesel loco were fitted with hoses and and a semi rotary pump to allow fueling from a 45 gallon drum.

 

It was a standard fitting on Planet SCW class locos and the pump were fitted on the outside of the cab on the rear above the RHS buffer with a hose for the barrel and a fixed pipe feeding into the tank inside the back of the cab..

 

Others had them under the bonnet sides, I have seen a couple of Ruston locos like this but I can say if they are factory fitted or been done on site.

 

Andy

 

Thank you for your reply.

 

That was something I had not seen or thought of. Do you know where any pictures of locos with such fittings can be found?

 

Don

[highpeakman]

I'm sure I've seen photos taken at Peak Forest, showing one or more of the industrial diesels stabled next to a small fuel tank; it looks as though this was where DBS now have their fuelling point.

Bear in mind that the loco fuel would only be a small proportion of the diesel consumed on site; there'd be 'red' diesel for the locos and plant, and ordinary diesel for the road fleet. What might happen is that the fuel supplier's tanker would deliver to the main fuel store, and a road bowser would take fuel to those items of plant that would normally stay near the quarry face. Such bowsers are still to be seen on big construction sites, opencast workings and so on. For the 1960s, the Bedford QL from the Airfix Aircraft Refuelling set would be the sort of thing you'd find.

 

Thanks for the response.

 

I had assumed that Bowser might be a likely solution. The idea of using the Airfix one is a good one, Thank you.

 

I do have a small loco shed with steam servicing facilities but am not sure whether to add a fuel tank there or not. I would assume it would have to be quite well separated from the steam locos for safety reasons.

 

Don

[corax67]

I would imagine that for such relatively small sites then a similar system to some of the older heritage railway yards may be used where there was a rectangular tank on legs over a shallow concrete bund that lived down towards the stabling sheds. This provided gravity fed fuelling - no need for pumps and associated power.

 

There were some sites where fuel was hand pumped straight from drums on trolleys into small loco's such as Rustons.

[highpeakman]

I would imagine that for such relatively small sites then a similar system to some of the older heritage railway yards may be used where there was a rectangular tank on legs over a shallow concrete bund that lived down towards the stabling sheds. This provided gravity fed fuelling - no need for pumps and associated power.

 

There were some sites where fuel was hand pumped straight from drums on trolleys into small loco's such as Rustons.

 

Thanks. I know the sort of tank you mean. I like the idea and I can probably put one together. The problem is that I have a lot else to do on the model at the moment. I've had a look around but there doesn't seem to be anything commercial out there like that unless anyone knows better?

 

Don

[Arthur]

Here are some examples Don,

 

Round Oak Steelworks, a simple raised tank with gravity feed, obviously the fuel needs pumping in to replenish it, that might be a pump at the bottom right of the tank.

 

 

 

The large facility built in the 1950s at Margam steelworks.  An old Lancashire boiler has been nicely refurbished and sits on cradles to the right.  Difficult to be sure but I suspect the fuel is pumped into the locos.

 

 

 

A road fuel bowser in use at Shotton steelworks. A basic two axle lorry, possibly a bonneted Bedford OB. Shotton used road bowsers because it was a massive sprawling site, well over 1000 acres, and it would have taken half a shift for a loco to visit and return from a central, fixed, refueling point. 

 

[PhilJ W]

I'm sure I've seen photos taken at Peak Forest, showing one or more of the industrial diesels stabled next to a small fuel tank; it looks as though this was where DBS now have their fuelling point.

Bear in mind that the loco fuel would only be a small proportion of the diesel consumed on site; there'd be 'red' diesel for the locos and plant, and ordinary diesel for the road fleet. What might happen is that the fuel supplier's tanker would deliver to the main fuel store, and a road bowser would take fuel to those items of plant that would normally stay near the quarry face. Such bowsers are still to be seen on big construction sites, opencast workings and so on. For the 1960s, the Bedford QL from the Airfix Aircraft Refuelling set would be the sort of thing you'd find.

I've also seen photographs of examples of the Bedford MK bowser (also made by Airfix) used. These were disposed of by the military from the late 80's and would be suitable for a post 1990 layout.

[highpeakman]

Arthur

 

Excellent photos. They really provide the views I wanted. Thank you very much.

 

The one at Round Oak is pretty much what I started off thinking about although I am now torn between the tank type and a bowser.

 

I note that in none of the photos does there appear to be any type of "bund" or other leak containment measures. What year did that sort sort of thing come in? My layout is based in the early to mid 60s and my memory is not good enough to remember if such practice was then in use.

 

Don

[highpeakman]

PhilJW

 

Thanks for the response.

 

The MK would be outside of the era I intend modelling but I do remember the MK types of truck as I lived around Dunstable for quite a while when the Bedford, and later AWD, factory was still operating.

 

Don

[Arthur]

I don't know the actual date but I suspect the Round Oak photo is mid 1960's or later. The DE2 locos were delivered to Round Oak in the late 50's/early 60's and the one in the photo looks to have a few years under it's belt. So you could get away without a bund I guess.

[Osgood]

 

I note that in none of the photos does there appear to be any type of "bund" or other leak containment measures. What year did that sort sort of thing come in? My layout is based in the early to mid 60s and my memory is not good enough to remember if such practice was then in use.

 

Don

 

Don - bunding of tanks was not enforced until around 1990, and I would imagine very few tanks would have been bunded much before mid 1970s.

 

So you won't be able to hide any lack of detail behind a big brick wall! 

[highpeakman]

Don - bunding of tanks was not enforced until around 1990, and I would imagine very few tanks would have been bunded much before mid 1970s.

 

So you won't be able to hide any lack of detail behind a big brick wall! 

 

Thank you for clarying that. If I am honest I certainly could not remember any safety measures of this type being in place at that time.

 

Whilst my memory is not as good as would hope I do have a vivid memory of being at a filling station near Nottingham when I first had a car (about 69 or 70) and the proprietor was filling the car up with petrol (no self serve - remember that?) whilst smoking a cigar! It was another world. LIke bunking Sheep Pasture while it was working - how did we survive?

 

But how did you know of my modelling technique?

 

Thanks again.

 

Don

[highpeakman]

I don't know the actual date but I suspect the Round Oak photo is mid 1960's or later. The DE2 locos were delivered to Round Oak in the late 50's/early 60's and the one in the photo looks to have a few years under it's belt. So you could get away without a bund I guess.

 

Thanks for giving the date estimate. Looks about right certainly.

 

Not only that but it looks like any leaks would be washed away down the water drain!

 

Wikipedia mentions that the railway between Round Oak and Baggeridge closed in 1966 although the steelworks survived until the 80s. Was that line part of the steelworks operation? Was the whole steelworks railways closed at that time?

 

Sorry about more questions but I always find such things so interesting.

 

Don

[Arthur]

Don, I think (others may correct me) that the Round Oak-Baggeridge railway was the private industrial line formerly belonging, as did Round Oak steel itself, to the Earls of Dudley and which served a number of collieries and ironworks. By 1966 only Round Oak survived as an operating site so the private line closed. In 1967 Round Oak, by then owned by Tube Investments, was partly nationalised and became a joint TI and BSC venture. It still had an extensive internal rail network, connected to the adjacent BR main line, in operation until the works closed in 1982.

 

Though much of the site became the Merry Hill retail park I believe that an industrial estate on part of the site retained rail operations until fairly recently. Might even still be there.

 

Arthur

[hartleymartin]

I rather suspect that early diesel facilities were either using pumps out of barrels or a re-purposed water tank.

[PGH]

 

Wikipedia mentions that the railway between Round Oak and Baggeridge closed in 1966 although the steelworks survived until the 80s. Was that line part of the steelworks operation? Was the whole steelworks railways closed at that time?

 

Sorry about more questions but I always find such things so interesting.

 

Don

 

The Round Oak Steelworks system originally formed part of the Pensnett Railway, which traced its history back to the Shutt End Railway and the early steam loco AGENORIA of 1829.

 

The line was covered in 'A History of the Pensnett Railway' by W.K.V.Gale, published by Goose and Son in 1975 which might be available through the secondhand book market.  However apart from dealing with its connection to the railway it doesn't include any details of the internal steelworks system.

[highpeakman]

Thanks for all the comments on this. I think I may have come up with a solution although not sure if it will be the long term answer. I have a Base Toys tanker. I will either remove the tank from it and put on "brick supports" or will make the tanker look as if it is a semi permanent fixture just for the purpose of fuelling the locos. I will have to look at where I position it on the layout as, even though we all agree safety standards were not strong then, I do not think it cannot go in the steam loco servicing area so it will have to go nearer the quarry plant itself.

 

The latter is obviously easier while I concentrate on building up the scenery. Once that is done then we shall see what develops.

 

Don

[highpeakman]

Thanks to PGH and Arthur for the information on Round Oak. Very interesting.

 

As usual I want to buy the books and find out more about all of these railways but, like many of us I suspect, have to concentrate time, effort and money on my main subject as there is never enough of any of those things available for everything of interest.

 

Many Thanks again for the comments.

 

Don

[5050]

I have used the Cooper Craft road tanker trailer kit as a source of suitable tanks for trackside use.

 

Like this on 'Enigma Engineering'.

 

[highpeakman]

I have used the Cooper Craft road tanker trailer kit as a source of suitable tanks for trackside use.

 

Like this on 'Enigma Engineering'.

 

Now that looks good. Just the sort of thing I want to do.

 

I did start to look for just such a trailer tank. Unfortunately I never thought to look on Cooper Craft site. Thanks for the pointer.

 

Thanks.

 

Don

[hmrspaul]

Don

 

Tank barrels with various uses here http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/tankwagongrounded

 

Regards

Paul

[highpeakman]

Don

 

Tank barrels with various uses here http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/tankwagongrounded

 

Regards

Paul

 

Paul

 

There is some very useful detail in those pictures.

 

I could probably find some wagon tanks in my scrap box or unused kits. Had originally thought they might be too big but will look at them again now.

 

Have used your web pictures for wagon detail, etc but did not realise such things as this were there as well.

 

Thanks very much for that.

 

Don

[PhilJ W]

The Coopercraft tank would be ideal as road tanker bodies would often be used for such purposes, quite often a railway tank would be too large.