RMweb Gold Strathwood Posted November 27, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 27, 2013 Just completing Looking back at Class 24 & Class 25 Locomotives and have come to the conclusion that no Class 25s whilst still in two tone green (the non gangway door designed variety) gained the later style of font for their numbers before repainting into either blue or being renumbered. Yes many lost their D prefixes but retained their original style of numbers, before going blue. Can anyone find an example to disprove this theory ASAP? Kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
50A55B Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 Deleted, having misread the original post - sorry Kevin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Strathwood Posted November 28, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 28, 2013 As I said 'before' being renumbered or painted into blue, and I have checked through a large number of photos, have I missed something? Kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTTLEY Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 Hi Kevin, I have shots (all downloaded from the web, so not my Copyright), of 5203 (single green) and 7555, 7559, 7561, 7610 & 7616 in two-tone green with TOPS-Style numbers......also 7564, which was in two-tone green, with TOPS-Style numbers AND BR double-arrow symbols, from one of your books (one of the spotting days of the 1970s..not sure which one, as I only borrowed it from a friend as I didn't believe him when he told me about it). You could be right about the 24s though. I have plenty of green ones, minus the "D" prefix, but can't find any with TOPS numbers. I'll have a look...see if I can find any more... Rgds, Ron. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Strathwood Posted November 29, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 29, 2013 Great work Ron, thanks very much I knew I had seen some myself back in the day, and thanks for reminding me about the shot in Looking back at Sulzer Locomotives as I was pre-occupied with the arrows on 7564, but it does seem they were in a minority whilst still in green compared to how many Class 47s that gained the later style of numerals whilst still in green. No doubt many examples of Brush 4s were given Crewe's quick touch up policy during works visits, whilst Derby sent everything out in blue after 1967. Although a few Class 24s & Class 25s did visit Crewe Works for repairs including the two tone 5072 in September 1971 as I recall. This has been proving to be a minefield with so many locomotives involved and various minor differences as we go through everything. Kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D1047 Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 Hi Kevin, I have shots (all downloaded from the web, so not my Copyright), of 5203 (single green) and 7555, 7559, 7561, 7610 & 7616 in two-tone green with TOPS-Style numbers......also 7564, which was in two-tone green, with TOPS-Style numbers AND BR double-arrow symbols, from one of your books (one of the spotting days of the 1970s..not sure which one, as I only borrowed it from a friend as I didn't believe him when he told me about it). You could be right about the 24s though. I have plenty of green ones, minus the "D" prefix, but can't find any with TOPS numbers. I'll have a look...see if I can find any more... Rgds, Ron. Hi Kev you can add 7644 to this list pic part of R.W.Carroll collection Regards Greg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Strathwood Posted November 29, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 29, 2013 Thanks Greg, Its not a long list considering how many Class 25s were still green into the early 1970s. If anyone can find anymore it would be useful to know. I have also found a number of Class 25s still in two tone green that had their BR emblems painted over as part of patch repairs after the locomotives suffered radiator failures and spilt their guts over the sides and erroded their paintwork. Kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45125 Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 Thanks Greg, Its not a long list considering how many Class 25s were still green into the early 1970s. If anyone can find anymore it would be useful to know. I have also found a number of Class 25s still in two tone green that had their BR emblems painted over as part of patch repairs after the locomotives suffered radiator failures and spilt their guts over the sides and erroded their paintwork. Kevin The erroded paintwork was a reaction between a coolant addative and the paint, and was caused by overfilling of the coolant system as the vent was on the roof. Not a radiator failure. 25s seemed more prone to this than many other classes with that had roof mounted vents/relief valves. Al Taylor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Strathwood Posted December 1, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 1, 2013 Thanks Al, Good info, it never pays to assume always ask someone who knows. It seems this was a more common problem then on Cricklewood based Class 25s judging from the evidence before me... Kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTTLEY Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Hi Kevin, It might be worth mentioning that three Class 25s (possibly four, but one is unconfirmed), made it as late as 1973/4, still only carrying small yellow warning panels on the cab fronts. These were 7647 (blue Sep '73), 7600 and D7659, with both these last two, making it into Jan 1974. D7659 still had its "D" prefixes. My last sighting for one of these, was 7600, at WN on 12Jan74. The unconfirmed one, is D7604. I'm unaware of any other Capital Stock locos making it into 1973 in service, with small panels. Rgds, Ron. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Strathwood Posted December 3, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 3, 2013 Thanks Ron, Yes I recall the somewhat scruffy appearance with dull and dirty paintwork of either 7600 or 7604 likewise at Willesden too as I was regular there at the time biking it from nearby Brentford, sadly my notes dissappeared a long time ago. Another type to remain with half yellow fronts certainly until late 1971 was D8135 which was at the Derby Works Open Day as I recall in 1971 as an exhibit even though was hardly clean, whilst inside the works had a good range of Class 24s gaining their last overhauls and a repaints out of green into the bargain, I also recall one of the 52A based Class 24s in blue looking more like it had a half yellow front as the window surrounds were covered in so much muck and filth on a visit to Gateshead in the summer of 1972. But I agree I think it must have been about the last locomotive still at work with a half yellow front at that time, perhaps someone with their notes can confirm which was the last one to gain either a full yellow or a repaint into blue? Kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Strathwood Posted December 20, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 20, 2013 Just completing Looking back at Class 24 & Class 25 Locomotives and have come to the conclusion that no Class 25s whilst still in two tone green (the non gangway door designed variety) gained the later style of font for their numbers before repainting into either blue or being renumbered. Yes many lost their D prefixes but retained their original style of numbers, before going blue. Can anyone find an example to disprove this theory ASAP? Kevin Last few tweaks taking place to Looking back at Class 24 & Class 25 Locomotives just over Christmas and New Year holidays and it should be off for printing early January. Official blurb from the website below along with cover design, print run again limited to just 1000 copies, advance orders accepted from the website. Looking back at Class 24 & Class 25 Locomotives (DUE FEBRUARY 2014)We take a closer look at both classes of these Type 2 Sulzer engined locomotives, from their introduction in the late 1950s throughout their service years up to the scrapyards. Inside we look at some of the variations through the years and many of the wide range of livery variations, many for the first time in print. A wide selection of locations and workings have been selected from a vast library of colour photographs, sure to appeal to the enthusiasts and modeller alike with informative captions. Approximately 150 colour photographs within 96 pages. HARDBACK RRP: £19.95 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTTLEY Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 Thanks Ron, Yes I recall the somewhat scruffy appearance with dull and dirty paintwork of either 7600 or 7604 likewise at Willesden too as I was regular there at the time biking it from nearby Brentford, sadly my notes dissappeared a long time ago. Another type to remain with half yellow fronts certainly until late 1971 was D8135 which was at the Derby Works Open Day as I recall in 1971 as an exhibit even though was hardly clean, whilst inside the works had a good range of Class 24s gaining their last overhauls and a repaints out of green into the bargain, I also recall one of the 52A based Class 24s in blue looking more like it had a half yellow front as the window surrounds were covered in so much muck and filth on a visit to Gateshead in the summer of 1972. But I agree I think it must have been about the last locomotive still at work with a half yellow front at that time, perhaps someone with their notes can confirm which was the last one to gain either a full yellow or a repaint into blue? Kevin Kevin, Other late survivors with SYPs, were D165 and D365; both still carrying them well into 1972. Rgds, Ron. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWales Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Hi Kevin, I have shots (all downloaded from the web, so not my Copyright), of 5203 (single green) and 7555, 7559, 7561, 7610 & 7616 in two-tone green with TOPS-Style numbers......also 7564, which was in two-tone green, with TOPS-Style numbers AND BR double-arrow symbols, from one of your books (one of the spotting days of the 1970s..not sure which one, as I only borrowed it from a friend as I didn't believe him when he told me about it). You could be right about the 24s though. I have plenty of green ones, minus the "D" prefix, but can't find any with TOPS numbers. I'll have a look...see if I can find any more... Rgds, Ron. 24090 was one of only two which carried TOPS in BFYE with the old Lion and Wheel emblem Also 5082 (24082) is reputed to have GFYE and TOPS numbers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWales Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Edit:24092 GFYE with double arrow symbol snapped at Swindon 1976-on scrap line Both the above are in David Clarke's excellent book Also mentioned are 24032, 24035, 24039, 24044, 24047, 24063, 24069,24071, 24081, 24082, 24057, 24090, 24110 & 24136, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Strathwood Posted January 7, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2014 Edit:24092 GFYE with double arrow symbol snapped at Swindon 1976-on scrap line Both the above are in David Clarke's excellent book Also mentioned are 24032, 24035, 24039, 24044, 24047, 24063, 24069,24071, 24081, 24082, 24057, 24090, 24110 & 24136, Thanks guys, I have found a large number of variants for sure both from collections we can reproduce and others where the photographers are not willing to see their work published, sadly. As with any book, someone will appear out of the mist once it is published and offer up evidence of something otherwise unknown, such is life... I thought there were a large number of variations in transition liveries whilst doing the Looking back at Class 26 & Class 27 Locomotives book, but this latest one goes to a new level. Hopefully everyone will agree we are publishing the best shots available to display these specimens. I am also working just now on Looking back at Class 31 Locomotives, Looking back at Peaks, Looking back at AC Electric Locomotives and Looking back at Class 33 Locomotives. The latter is as yet lacking shots for the first Class 33/1 in GSYP in colour can anyone help by chance? As for Class 31s after TOPS they are akin the Class 47s later in life, when it seems no two were painted exactly the same! Kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTTLEY Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Edit:24092 GFYE with double arrow symbol snapped at Swindon 1976-on scrap line Both the above are in David Clarke's excellent book Also mentioned are 24032, 24035, 24039, 24044, 24047, 24063, 24069,24071, 24081, 24082, 24057, 24090, 24110 & 24136, 24044?? New one on me. Time to do some digging. 24071 - definately NOT; it was blue as 5071 in late 1973. There's a 50/50 chance that 24142 was green for a short while and 24147 (not in the above list) was definately green. Of the above, 24069, 24081 & 24092 were green with BR double arrows. "Also 5082 (24082) is reputed to have GFYE and TOPS numbers". Hmm...I have a photo of 5082 and it didn't have 'em. Not to say it didn't have them on t'other side though. "24090 was one of only two which carried TOPS in BFYE with the old Lion and Wheel emblem". A figment of someone's imagination - it was as green as the grass under your feet. 24021 was the only one. Other Cl24 livery variations, not mentioned so far are; 24009 was the only "Skinhead" 24 to carry Glasgow Works blue with bodyside numbers. A few of the Inverness 24115-24132 series were in this livery; 24115, 116, 117, 118, 124 & 128 spring to mind, with 24116 having number and arrow transposed on one side only; the number was in the centre of the bodyside and the arrows were where the number should have been.... At least 24076 and 24086 carried the "Arrows on all four cabsdes, with bodyside numbers" and 076 was scrapped like it. 24112 & 24113 were the same, but with the left-hand arrows on both sides, painted out and the TOPS numbers put on. They both retained the arrows on the right-hand cabs. A very few 24s were repainted in two-tone green - I know of D5005, 037, 038, 040, 053 & 072. As far as I'm aware, none of those made it to TOPS. Lastly, D5113 was green with arrows and small yellow panel. Sticking my neck out a bit, but I believe this was unique. Cheers, Ron. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Strathwood Posted January 17, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2014 24044?? New one on me. Time to do some digging. 24071 - definately NOT; it was blue as 5071 in late 1973. There's a 50/50 chance that 24142 was green for a short while and 24147 (not in the above list) was definately green. Of the above, 24069, 24081 & 24092 were green with BR double arrows. "Also 5082 (24082) is reputed to have GFYE and TOPS numbers". Hmm...I have a photo of 5082 and it didn't have 'em. Not to say it didn't have them on t'other side though. "24090 was one of only two which carried TOPS in BFYE with the old Lion and Wheel emblem". A figment of someone's imagination - it was as green as the grass under your feet. 24021 was the only one. Other Cl24 livery variations, not mentioned so far are; 24009 was the only "Skinhead" 24 to carry Glasgow Works blue with bodyside numbers. A few of the Inverness 24115-24132 series were in this livery; 24115, 116, 117, 118, 124 & 128 spring to mind, with 24116 having number and arrow transposed on one side only; the number was in the centre of the bodyside and the arrows were where the number should have been.... At least 24076 and 24086 carried the "Arrows on all four cabsdes, with bodyside numbers" and 076 was scrapped like it. 24112 & 24113 were the same, but with the left-hand arrows on both sides, painted out and the TOPS numbers put on. They both retained the arrows on the right-hand cabs. A very few 24s were repainted in two-tone green - I know of D5005, 037, 038, 040, 053 & 072. As far as I'm aware, none of those made it to TOPS. Lastly, D5113 was green with arrows and small yellow panel. Sticking my neck out a bit, but I believe this was unique. Cheers, Ron. Good stuff as usual Ron, we have photographic evidence of pretty much all of what you describe with many going into the book. Also of note are the ways in which full yellow ends are applied as to where they actually cover, ie above and below the cantrails and around the cab windows even on one example, below the buffers etc. Also the painting out and colour differences of the lower body stripe whilst in green, not to mention with or without emblems or arrows. Even though I have spent ages on this one I bet we have yet to uncover a few more variations yet. Keep 'em coming. Still chasing the Gsyp Class 33/1 in colour is this the holy grail? Kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted January 17, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2014 Still chasing the Gsyp Class 33/1 in colour is this the holy grail? Kevin Ther's a pic somewhere, can't remember where I've seen it, shows up the different cable arrangement and lack of buffing plate clearly. I'll keep searching. Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Just completing Looking back at Class 24 & Class 25 Locomotives and have come to the conclusion that no Class 25s whilst still in two tone green (the non gangway door designed variety) gained the later style of font for their numbers before repainting into either blue or being renumbered. Yes many lost their D prefixes but retained their original style of numbers, before going blue. Can anyone find an example to disprove this theory ASAP? Kevin I am probably far too late, but looking at a few old and rather poor transparencies from the early 1970s, I found this lurking in the background at Euston from Aug 1973. It appears to be 7556 in two-tone green with the new style numbers. Is this what you were looking for? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Strathwood Posted January 17, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2014 I am probably far too late, but looking at a few old and rather poor transparencies from the early 1970s, I found this lurking in the background at Euston from Aug 1973. It appears to be 7556 in two-tone green with the new style numbers. Is this what you were looking for? 100069.jpg Many thanks thats another one confirmed. Kevin Ther's a pic somewhere, can't remember where I've seen it, shows up the different cable arrangement and lack of buffing plate clearly. I'll keep searching. Mike. Keep looking Mike even if we cannot use it i am sure it will be of use for the text. Kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45125 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Here are two photos of D6580, take at Eastleigh before converstion to a standard 33/1. Regards Al Taylor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Good heavens, I have never seen that variation before. It is amazing that these photos can come to light (at least as far as I'm concerned) after half a century. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted January 18, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 18, 2014 6580003.jpg6580004.jpg Here are two photos of D6580, take at Eastleigh before converstion to a standard 33/1. Regards Al Taylor Wow. That's far better than one I recall. Fantastic. Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Strathwood Posted January 18, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 18, 2014 This is good stuff indeed. Kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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