Shark brake van in Engineers Red?

[Dale]

Hi folks. I have a spare Hornby shark brake van and have been told that as well as black, engineering stock could also be seen in 'engineers red's. A little like a reddish bauxite? Now I have not been able to find any photo's on the net so can any one explain when, if and where engineering stock was painted red and of course when?

 

I am also looking for any pic's which I can use as the bases to repaint my existing stock.

 

Thanks folks.

 

[Dale]

Hi folks. I have a spare Hornby shark brake van and have been told that as well as black, engineering stock could also be seen in 'engineers red's. A little like a reddish bauxite? Now I have not been able to find any photo's on the net so can any one explain when, if and where engineering stock was painted red and of course when?

 

I am also looking for any pic's which I can use as the bases to repaint my existing stock.

 

Thanks folks.

Oh, and would Precision Paints 'Engineers Gulf Red' be the right colour?

[Fat Controller]

Oh, and would Precision Paints 'Engineers Gulf Red' be the right colour?

I believe that is what 'Engineer's Red' is normally called.

['CHARD]

We have this debate roughly annually, and it's probably about due.  Engineers Red has achieved almost mythic status as a livery of legend.  Although many observers have also counselled caution with it, as its application was far from widespread.  Not sure what believable proportions in a fleet might be, but it seems to have been a relatively short-lived livery, applied using (some rumours go) a mix of surplus crimson and cream carriage paint.  That implies that it was contemporary with the introduction of maroon livery, so it would be most common in the late '50s and early '60s, although massively outnumbered by plain black.

 

Paul Bartlett's excellent wagon site is your best on-line photographic resource.

[hmrspaul]

Oh, and would Precision Paints 'Engineers Gulf Red' be the right colour?

Yes, search for Gulf Red on here, it has been discussed before. Precision sometimes don't get colours correct but that will be what they are aiming at.

 

Easy to find on the web http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/sharkzuv/e298e057c

 

Paul

[hmrspaul]

We have this debate roughly annually, and it's probably about due.  Engineers Red has achieved almost mythic status as a livery of legend.  Although many observers have also counselled caution with it, as its application was far from widespread.  Not sure what believable proportions in a fleet might be, but it seems to have been a relatively short-lived livery, applied using (some rumours go) a mix of surplus crimson and cream carriage paint.  That implies that it was contemporary with the introduction of maroon livery, so it would be most common in the late '50s and early '60s, although massively outnumbered by plain black.

 

Paul Bartlett's excellent wagon site is your best on-line photographic resource.

Not introduced until March 1960, out of use January 1963 (when Olive Green introduced).

Bartlett, Paul W. (1992d) Gulf red - a nearly forgotten BR livery. Modellers' Backtrack vol. 2 (part 4) pp 184 - 188.

 

I must admit I've never heard the suggestion of it being  a mix of older paints - and 1960 is a long time after crimson/cream stopped being applied. Mind, I could believe it for repainting (as against the new stock  that was introduced in Gulf Red).

 

 

Paul

[Dale]

Thanks all for the swift replies and the link to Paul's site.  That pic is ideal.  Now to just divest baby sitting duties and get out to the shed...

[cctransuk]

Hi folks. I have a spare Hornby shark brake van and have been told that as well as black, engineering stock could also be seen in 'engineers red's. A little like a reddish bauxite? Now I have not been able to find any photo's on the net so can any one explain when, if and where engineering stock was painted red and of course when?

 

I am also looking for any pic's which I can use as the bases to repaint my existing stock.

 

Thanks folks.

 

My transfer sheet BL120b @ http://www.cctrans.freeserve.co.uk/products.htm contains some white transfer sets for the Gulf Red SHARK.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood,

Cambridge Custom Transfers.

[Dale]

Cheers John,

 

It would be 120c for me being a dirty NE modeller (although my heart will always be Midland)

 

I will see how my paint job goes and if its not a pig's ear, i will put an order in for the transfers mate.

 

Dale.

[cctransuk]

Cheers John,

 

It would be 120c for me being a dirty NE modeller (although my heart will always be Midland)

 

I will see how my paint job goes and if its not a pig's ear, i will put an order in for the transfers mate.

 

Dale.

 

Dale,

 

Only BL120b has white transfers for the Gulf Red SHARK for the simple reason that ONLY the LMR received SHARKS painted in that colour from new.

 

Now it may be that some black SHARKs were repainted in Gulf Red but there are no records, to the best of my knowledge, which indicate which ones, if any, were so treated.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Dale]

Ahh, no problem.  The 120b it shall be.  First coat was applied last night and its not looking as bad as i thought it might.  plenty of hours left in it though but fingers crossed my first 're-painting' project turns out ok.

 

Thanks for the advice fella's.

 

D.

[JeffP]

I once travelled into Birmingham from Lichfield, passing what appeared to be a disused steam shed, (Aston?).

 

Outside were rows of BR brake vans, painted strange colours, including light pastel blue and lilac.

 

Did I dream this? Or were they really there? Both my lads remember it, so it happened, but why?

[hmrspaul]

Ahh, no problem.  The 120b it shall be.  First coat was applied last night and its not looking as bad as i thought it might.  plenty of hours left in it though but fingers crossed my first 're-painting' project turns out ok.

 

Thanks for the advice fella's.

 

D.

I wouldn't worry too much about the colour, it is very elusive and seems to vary especially after weathering. I happened to look at these two earlier today http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/gwrstarfish/e394de397      http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/gwrstarfish/e2550f23f

 

 

 Paul

[hmrspaul]

I once travelled into Birmingham from Lichfield, passing what appeared to be a disused steam shed, (Aston?).

 

Outside were rows of BR brake vans, painted strange colours, including light pastel blue and lilac.

 

Did I dream this? Or were they really there? Both my lads remember it, so it happened, but why?

I don't know about lilac, (sounds nice!) but blue is a definite http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brbrakevan504/e62d1cfe (nice for anyone who is not so good with transfers!) and there were various other colours - including Bertie http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsbrakevan/e41aa0c8

 

Paul

[Dale]

Well folks we have had a bit of a disaster on the Shark front...

 

I have taken it apart and repainted it following Paul''s picture as my guide.  John's transfer's arrived and I had my first brush with transfer application which went well too.  My first problem arose when trying to figure out which detailing parts went where?  Not a major problem though or I soon found a picture on the internet of a model shark with the bits fitted.

 

The iceberg struck when I lightly oversprayed the dried (48h) transfers with Humbrol Acylic #49 matt spray varnish.  The PP enamels crinkled up and in some places bubbled up, detaching from the model and ruining the paintwork!

 

Lessons learned here - well I need to find out what the big boys use to varnish/fix decals with.

 

It may be salvageable but time will tell..

[cctransuk]

Well folks we have had a bit of a disaster on the Shark front...

 

I have taken it apart and repainted it following Paul''s picture as my guide.  John's transfer's arrived and I had my first brush with transfer application which went well too.  My first problem arose when trying to figure out which detailing parts went where?  Not a major problem though or I soon found a picture on the internet of a model shark with the bits fitted.

 

The iceberg struck when I lightly oversprayed the dried (48h) transfers with Humbrol Acylic #49 matt spray varnish.  The PP enamels crinkled up and in some places bubbled up, detaching from the model and ruining the paintwork!

 

Lessons learned here - well I need to find out what the big boys use to varnish/fix decals with.

 

It may be salvageable but time will tell..

 

If you can't get hold of the original Johnson's Klear floor lacquer, you can't go wrong with :-

 

http://www.hannants.co.uk/product/MSFLAT

 

http://www.hannants.co.uk/product/MSGLOSS

 

http://www.hannants.co.uk/product/MSSATIN

 

To strip the paintwork, put the components in a food bag; squirt in Mr. Muscle Oven Cleaner foam so that eveything is coated; tie up the bag for 24 hrs.; and rinse off with cold water and an old toothbrush.

 

When dry, the painting process can commence again.

 

Sorry to rub it in, but my transfer instructions do mention the need to be wary when choosing a sealing coat - I think they even mention Microscale products.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood,

Cambridge Custom Transfers.

['CHARD]

I once travelled into Birmingham from Lichfield, passing what appeared to be a disused steam shed, (Aston?).

 

Outside were rows of BR brake vans, painted strange colours, including light pastel blue and lilac.

 

Did I dream this? Or were they really there? Both my lads remember it, so it happened, but why?

 

Definitely not Aston Jeff, that didn't survive the end of steam intact AFAIK.

 

The location you describe is Duddeston Wagon Shops.  Host to all manner of arcane engineers' stock through the eighties.

[Dale]

Cheers John, they do indeed but foolishy my brain went as follows: 'Humbrol, they have a name in modelling and hey, they are owned by Hornby i think, so surely this must be the gear of choice?'

 

Following this escapade I will take the advice of three learned folks: The Hoobs, and in the future 'test it, test it, test it out'.

 

Next stop Tesco for some Mr Muscle.  Might as well do the oven whilst I am at it...

 

D.