Do you have a turnout kit either started or still in the box

[hayfield]

John

 

Thanks for the clarification - and Merry Christmas.

 

The only thing that has stopped me building them is time - when I do I'll report progress!

 

Sorry my thread was a bit vague, but am looking forward to seeing the build as the photos and description from Flymo are very good

[hayfield]

 Flymo

 

Thank you for taking the time and trouble in posting the photos. The fact that you Bluetacked the bases to your desk speaks volumes of the ease of building this kit.

 

Good to see an original Brooke Smith gauge, pity the finish of these gauges is not available now.

 

You have enough parts on the additional switch rail chairs for a left hand turnout (A, B or C) and chairs on the common crossing sprue for 1 in 5,6,7 &10. I have spoken with Peter about these chairs as well as those for the various crossings (diamonds and slips) as they are a super resource for all other 4mm gauges (as well as P4) so they can be detailed to the same high standard.

[cromptonnut]

Those pictures alone should "sell" the concept of proper track to anyone that sees them

 

Doesn't necessarily need selling, although it doesn't get round the fact that many of us don't have, feel we don't, or turn out not to have, the skills required to produce the finished result properly.

[Flymo748]

 Flymo

 

Thank you for taking the time and trouble in posting the photos. The fact that you Bluetacked the bases to your desk speaks volumes of the ease of building this kit.

 

Good to see an original Brooke Smith gauge, pity the finish of these gauges is not available now.

 

You're very welcome.  The instructions with the kit are very comprehensive, and if they are read carefully then there should be no reason for anyone to go wrong in building it.

 

The one other thing that folk should be aware of is that the P4TrackCo. sleepers are full (prototypical) depth.  This means that they are not immediately compatible with the thinner sleeper depth of ply-and-rivet track or most flexitrack.  I hadn't completely realised this in planning, and you can read (and see) the full effect in this post on my blog:

 

http://beerandbuckjumpers.blogspot.co.uk/2010/04/dont-try-this-at-home.html

 

Nothing that can't be solved by using some card under the thinner stuff, but just be aware of it...  I think that I used the card backs of the envelopes that MRJ arrives in as the packing!

 

The Brook Smith gauges truly are excellent.  I have one "working" set, and a spare newer set that I picked up from Ebay as a reserve/spare if ever needed.

 

You really don't need a toolbox full of gauges to handbuild track.  Just three in fact: (1) track gauge (2) checkrail gauge (3) flangeway gauge.

 

Having a couple of each of these does help, in being able to hold both ends of a piece of rail at the same time, and suchlike.  But you can, and I have, perfectly managed with just one of each.

 

 

The roller gauge in the picture is only for checking track that has already been completed, and is not strictly necessary for construction.

 

Cheers

Flymo

[Flymo748]

Doesn't necessarily need selling, although it doesn't get round the fact that many of us don't have, feel we don't, or turn out not to have, the skills required to produce the finished result properly.

 

So to the first point, have you tried?  For you might be surprised.

 

To the second point, well, you won't know until you try...

 

On the final point, with a P4TrackCo. kit and a set of gauges, if you've genuinely tried it I would be very surprised if that were true, for if you read the instructions carefully then you should have no problems.  I use the benchmark that it you can make a decent job of an Airfix Spitfire, you can successfully finish one of these.

 

BTW, no connection to Exactiscale or P4TrackCo., just someone that has built them.  And ply-and-rivet, and copperclad, and mixtures of the three!

 

Cheers

Flymo

[cromptonnut]

Yes I have tried, a C&L O gauge point.

 

It's sort of half together but the problem is with the "point kits" as such is that are really no different in size or shape to Peco O gauge points, about the same price, and a lot more fuss than a "ready to plonk" point.

 

Of course, if you're handbuilding to Templot templates, then that'd be different.  But I'm not at that stage yet.

 

It's almost a "mental block" that I've got to the stage where I just can't go any further because I know it's going to go wrong at the critical stage - blades.

[Flymo748]

Yes I have tried, a C&L O gauge point.

 

It's sort of half together but the problem is with the "point kits" as such is that are really no different in size or shape to Peco O gauge points, about the same price, and a lot more fuss than a "ready to plonk" point.

 

Of course, if you're handbuilding to Templot templates, then that'd be different.  But I'm not at that stage yet.

 

It's almost a "mental block" that I've got to the stage where I just can't go any further because I know it's going to go wrong at the critical stage - blades.

 

Can you talk through what you feel the problem is?  Sorry if that sounds like psychoanalyst bo**ox, I'm only meaning what stage do you feel that it goes wrong.

 

With point blades, if you are making your own then it can take a couple of goes to gain the knack of filing the head off and not the foot, but that's just practice, and you only waste a few pence worth of rail if it goes wrong first time.  In a point kit, the blades are normally machined to shape, saving time and giving accuracy.

 

Then it's a matter of laying the switch rails on the template, keeping them to gauge against the stock rails as you go. The last half dozen or so (depending on the size of the switch) will float free, being unattached and doing the flexing.   The bit that I find most tricky is ensuring that the flangeway gap is correct between the switch and the stockrail, and that stage will come later when you fit tiebars.

 

Cheers

Flymo

[cromptonnut]

It's a bit chaotic at the moment being Christmas time but I'll take this to another thread in the new year and we can have a try if you're willing.

 

Part of the problem is I am a "lone modeller" with no suitable local club that can provide me with what I need from a club (I know club membership should be a two way thing but you know what I mean) and none of my close modelling friends are experienced either so I end up fumbling along on my own, and no matter how much advice you can get from RMWeb there's not really any substitution for someone sitting next to you showing you how it's done.

[Flymo748]

It's a bit chaotic at the moment being Christmas time but I'll take this to another thread in the new year and we can have a try if you're willing.

 

Part of the problem is I am a "lone modeller" with no suitable local club that can provide me with what I need from a club (I know club membership should be a two way thing but you know what I mean) and none of my close modelling friends are experienced either so I end up fumbling along on my own, and no matter how much advice you can get from RMWeb there's not really any substitution for someone sitting next to you showing you how it's done.

 

Well, please do, and drop me a PM when you do so please.  Then I'll happily follow what you are doing and try and advise if possible.  I'm afraid that I don't live on RMWeb, so may miss it for a while otherwise.

 

I understand what you mean about actually seeing something being done.  It can sometimes be the very best way, and one of the reasons why the demonstrations at places like Scaleforum and Missenden are so popular.  I don't know what you regard as a reasonable distance to travel to go to a club.  Members of my Area Group travel 35 miles to attend our monthly meeting.

 

However if you can get there, a very good club exists at Epsom http://www.eemrc.org.uk/  The reason that I suggest them is that firstly I know and respect for their skills some of the members, and secondly they have a 7mm layout in the club.  They look to be about 15 miles/35 minutes away according to Google.  Perhaps this may give you the companionship that will guide you?

 

Cheers

Flymo

[hayfield]

Yes I have tried, a C&L O gauge point.

 

It's sort of half together but the problem is with the "point kits" as such is that are really no different in size or shape to Peco O gauge points, about the same price, and a lot more fuss than a "ready to plonk" point.

 

Of course, if you're handbuilding to Templot templates, then that'd be different.  But I'm not at that stage yet.

 

It's almost a "mental block" that I've got to the stage where I just can't go any further because I know it's going to go wrong at the critical stage - blades.

 

 

It's a bit chaotic at the moment being Christmas time but I'll take this to another thread in the new year and we can have a try if you're willing.

 

Part of the problem is I am a "lone modeller" with no suitable local club that can provide me with what I need from a club (I know club membership should be a two way thing but you know what I mean) and none of my close modelling friends are experienced either so I end up fumbling along on my own, and no matter how much advice you can get from RMWeb there's not really any substitution for someone sitting next to you showing you how it's done.

 

 

Cromptonnut

 

These are the reasons I have started this thread, especially for those who have no access to a club, or their club has no expertise in this area.

 

In one way you are correct that there is not much difference between O and OO gauge turnout building, however the larger rail and if its flatbottom (OO as well) rail rather than bullhead, there is a bit more work.

 

The hardest part in building a turnout is in making the common crossing (Vee/frog assembly) in chaired track construction. These can be brought as ready made units, but with a little effort and a bit of practice can be made at a fraction of the cost

 

The switch blades again can be bought ready milled, but again once shown "how to" is quite a simple process.

 

Templot is now free, and I agree quite hard to make a 3 way or slip. But turnouts are just just a couple of clicks in a self selection box !!

 

I agree with you its just for some confidence overcoming the unknown and there is far more help and expertise on RMweb than any club

[cromptonnut]

Regarding local clubs, it's not necessarily a lack of good local clubs, or even local clubs with O gauge sections, but as a diesel modeller I want to get involved with layouts that not only reflect my interest but also ones that I can run my stock on.  The nearest I know of is the South East O Gauge Group (Peter Clark is involved, if you know his work you'll know it would be a good match) but it's a good hour drive each way from here which isn't much use when you've just travelled out of London by train having been at work - or even longer and a 2 train change to get home.

 

I've found one other local "lone modeller" on RMWeb who has similar interests to mine, although he leans towards green/pre-TOPS and I'm rail blue , and we are mutually supporting each other in our endeavours to the point of looking to build out layouts to have a "compatibility" between them so that they can be linked in some sort of glorified "modular format" for through running.  But as he's never built a point either it leaves us both a bit stuck!

 

I was planning on sticking with bullhead rail although flatbottom is probably more appropriate in my era, simply as Peco's range doesn't include a curved point or a slip, both of which I needed in my plan in FB.

[hayfield]

 

The one other thing that folk should be aware of is that the P4TrackCo. sleepers are full (prototypical) depth.  This means that they are not immediately compatible with the thinner sleeper depth of ply-and-rivet track or most flexitrack.  I hadn't completely realised this in planning, and you can read (and see) the full effect in this post on my blog:

 

http://beerandbuckjumpers.blogspot.co.uk/2010/04/dont-try-this-at-home.html

 

Nothing that can't be solved by using some card under the thinner stuff, but just be aware of it...  I think that I used the card backs of the envelopes that MRJ arrives in as the packing!

 

 

Flymo

 

Fymo

 

I have had the benefit of spending some time chatting with Len about the Exactoscale range, he was the initial driving force behind C&L (K&L in those days) so has the experience behind both ranges (now a consultant for C&L).  It was a conscious effort to chose a thicker sleeper for stability purposes and Exactoscale sell both plastic and ply sleeper strip in these thickness's. Also the Exactoscale turnout sleeper pack to my mind is not only better value than C&L strip (180 against 50 sleepers) but has longer sleepers

 

Exactoscale sell (plain) track bases in P4, EM and 00 gauges with the thicker bases. One by-product is that the Exactoscale turnout strip and track bases are much more of a height match to Peco track than C&L or SMP and of course for the OO boys are far mote to scale than the HO offerings of others

[hayfield]

Regarding local clubs, it's not necessarily a lack of good local clubs, or even local clubs with O gauge sections, but as a diesel modeller I want to get involved with layouts that not only reflect my interest but also ones that I can run my stock on.  The nearest I know of is the South East O Gauge Group (Peter Clark is involved, if you know his work you'll know it would be a good match) but it's a good hour drive each way from here which isn't much use when you've just travelled out of London by train having been at work - or even longer and a 2 train change to get home.

 

I've found one other local "lone modeller" on RMWeb who has similar interests to mine, although he leans towards green/pre-TOPS and I'm rail blue , and we are mutually supporting each other in our endeavours to the point of looking to build out layouts to have a "compatibility" between them so that they can be linked in some sort of glorified "modular format" for through running.  But as he's never built a point either it leaves us both a bit stuck!

 

I was planning on sticking with bullhead rail although flatbottom is probably more appropriate in my era, simply as Peco's range doesn't include a curved point or a slip, both of which I needed in my plan in FB.

 

 

Cromptonnut

 

Curved Turnouts are a doddle in Templot, I am certain that one of us can help you with this, off hand I don't know if flatbottom chairs are available in 7mm. Perhaps some one else can assist. Though when asked to build some turnouts for a modern image modeller photos of the era he is modelling showed BH rail being used on the turnouts

[Flymo748]

Fymo

 

I have had the benefit of spending some time chatting with Len about the Exactoscale range, he was the initial driving force behind C&L (K&L in those days) so has the experience behind both ranges (now a consultant for C&L).  It was a conscious effort to chose a thicker sleeper for stability purposes and Exactoscale sell both plastic and ply sleeper strip in these thickness's. Also the Exactoscale turnout sleeper pack to my mind is not only better value than C&L strip (180 against 50 sleepers) but has longer sleepers

 

Exactoscale sell (plain) track bases in P4, EM and 00 gauges with the thicker bases. One by-product is that the Exactoscale turnout strip and track bases are much more of a height match to Peco track than C&L or SMP and of course for the OO boys are far mote to scale than the HO offerings of others

 

Oh yes, I much prefer the prototypical thickness of the Exactoscale base, both for stability and appearance.  Although not even the sleepers will be visible on the next layout as during the Edwardian period much track on the GER was ballasted above sleeper level.

 

The cock-up was entirely mine for not thinking it through.  The reason for mentioning it was to make sure that others didn't make the same mistake :-)

 

I'm an enormous supporter of the Exactoscale range, and as soon as the kits are introduced with nickel silver rail rather than steel then I hope that they become even more popular.

 

Cheers

Flymo

[Kenton]

Does this count, or must it be P4?

 

 

Donated as part of a project that never quite got off the ground. As you can see I haven't even opened the packet so have no idea what it contains (if anything). The last set of points I threw together was EM back in the early 70's (ply and tin tacks) it never really worked perfectly (possibly due to complete lack of gauges). Probably not the best place to start with a single slip, but then a double might be worse.

 

As always time and too many other attractive projects involving brass and soldering seems to push this to the back of the loft - perhaps it was a good idea to leave well alone and forget.

[hayfield]

Does this count, or must it be P4?

 

 

Donated as part of a project that never quite got off the ground. As you can see I haven't even opened the packet so have no idea what it contains (if anything). The last set of points I threw together was EM back in the early 70's (ply and tin tacks) it never really worked perfectly (possibly due to complete lack of gauges). Probably not the best place to start with a single slip, but then a double might be worse.

 

As always time and too many other attractive projects involving brass and soldering seems to push this to the back of the loft - perhaps it was a good idea to leave well alone and forget.

 

 

Kenton

 

Just the Job, and most of the work has been done. I will start the thread after the new year break. Should be a bit of fun. I have even got an old Peco splked point to throw into the hat!!

[Re6/6]

This thread has prompted me to sort out and clean the rust off all my P4 gauges.

 

I've come across some that I don't know what they're for! I've always been a sucker for anything new or old that come my way.

 

I'll take a few snaps and perhaps somebody will recognize them!

[MartinWales]

 Flymo

 

Thank you for taking the time and trouble in posting the photos. The fact that you Bluetacked the bases to your desk speaks volumes of the ease of building this kit.

 

 

And if that don't tempt more into Finescale nothing will!

[Michael Woolford]

I have a kit that I bought at Warley this year. Just haven't had the time to have a go yet.

 

Michael

I would like to have a go at using the exactoscale special chairs and the checkrail chairs as I will be superdetailing the S&C on my new layout (when I get round to it). I started a thread earlier in the year about converting to EM gauge and handbuilt track and I recieved some very helpful responses, the op of this topic being a notable contributor (many thanks John). I did share some progress in the planning of the trackwork but haven't since progressed. Once the checkrail chairs are back in stock and I can order some and I will have to share my attempts of track building in both this topic and my own. I'm hoping that once I gain some confidence from the kit, I can move on to making everything myself. Hopefully it is as easy as some individuals make it look (my main concern is making switchblades). This is one particular part of the hobby I'm really looking forward to (I'm dreading converting steam locos to EM).

 

Some of my bits and bobs (bought cheap months ago) including my track gauges that I got at Bracknell back in May and a picture of my kit. 

 

 

Michael

 

[jcm@gwr]

I've just remembered/re-discovered that I have 

a couple of Peco point kits (spiked chairs and

a 1 piece fibreboard sleeper base) and a couple 

of packs of whitemetal frogs. 

 

They came from a loft clearance we did (local

MRC) and also with them I got 9 points already

made, in various states of repair.

 

Jeff

[hayfield]

And if that don't tempt more into Finescale nothing will!

 

 

 

Martin

 

Will be worth a chat with Peter (C&L) which I have not done in quite a few months about progress on Nickel silver rail in the kits and OO & EM versions of said kits. Having said that )) & EM versions would need some new mouldings (Check rail chairs and track bases). Though I think the main obstacle against volume sales is the price, I have no idea is an increase in sales would bring down the price to one which would generally be acceptable in OO gauge.

[hayfield]

I would like to have a go at using the exactoscale special chairs and the checkrail chairs as I will be superdetailing the S&C on my new layout (when I get round to it). I started a thread earlier in the year about converting to EM gauge and handbuilt track and I recieved some very helpful responses, the op of this topic being a notable contributor (many thanks John). I did share some progress in the planning of the trackwork but haven't since progressed. Once the checkrail chairs are back in stock and I can order some and I will have to share my attempts of track building in both this topic and my own. I'm hoping that once I gain some confidence from the kit, I can move on to making everything myself. Hopefully it is as easy as some individuals make it look (my main concern is making switchblades). This is one particular part of the hobby I'm really looking forward to (I'm dreading converting steam locos to EM).

 

Some of my bits and bobs (bought cheap months ago) including my track gauges that I got at Bracknell back in May and a picture of my kit. 

 

 

Michael

 

DSC_0387.jpg

DSC_0388.jpg

 Michael

 

Good to have you aboard, had no idea the 0.8mm check rail chairs were out of stock as I need to get some more myself.

 

I think I told you they can't be used straight out of the box, as the check rail gap needs to be 1 mm. I thread 3 on the check rail (on a check rail that spans 5 chairs) and 2 on the stock rail, cut half chairs off each. Fit the check rail with the use of check rail gauges, then fit the half chairs. The 0.2 mm difference is hardly (if at all) noticeable. This method also works for OO-SF turnouts.

 

I think as I have said before the process of building plain turnouts is very simple, and is quite easy like everything once shown the process. Switch blades are quite easy to file up, just a little fiddly. Thankfully takes a couple of mins. The common crossing is a little more difficult, I will go through my method of construction using a couple of simple jigs I have fabricated. I will try and finish it for the Watford Finescale show (15th & 16 of Feb) so anyone who wants a look can do so.

 

Most of my gauges have been picked up second hand, though some of the really old ones are bin fodder

[hayfield]

I've just remembered/re-discovered that I have 

a couple of Peco point kits (spiked chairs and

a 1 piece fibreboard sleeper base) and a couple 

of packs of whitemetal frogs. 

 

They came from a loft clearance we did (local

MRC) and also with them I got 9 points already

made, in various states of repair.

 

Jeff

 

 

Jeff

 

I got mine off Ebay, the idea is to have a small shelf layout to tun some 50's & 60's stock (some kitbuilt locos have Triang chassis) on. I have some lengths of ABC track thought about doing one of CJF's 6' x 1' plans. Hopefully have the odd bit of fibre board in the loft

[hayfield]

Here is a single slip I am workIng on. No check rails yet. A wagon runs through OK, next to check a loco. More chairs to be fitted once tested before any more rails fitted



No special chairs on this one. Plenty still to do, including tidying up the central diamond crossing once all the rails have been fitted and checked

[hayfield]

Just to either inform those not old enough to have seen the Peco spiked turnout or remind those old enough to remember

 

 

All parts cut to length and machined where needed, other than lay the turnout and spike through into soft board just the curved stock rail to gently bent as it can be made into either a right or left hand turnout.

 

At 3' radius this was seen as a large turnout in its days

 

A frustrating night as I forgot to make a simple adjustment. Should have been an easy alteration but in reassembling somehow the crossing rails went out of gauge. All OK now once I realized what had happened but a wasted evening.