Wood for Baseboards - Help please

[Guest]

I now find myself faced with a difficult situation, I'm having to rip-up my layout!
This is because the baseboards have warped badly meaning it's become unusable!
I am planning on building a new layout, but I don't want to make the same mistake again by choosing the wrong wood type for my baseboards!

So, my question to you is: What's the best wood to use for baseboards that won't warp?

All help is greatly appreciated!

Matt

[Clagsniffer]

Could you please give us a bit more detail as to where your layout is going to be situated? The cause of the wood warping may not only be the choice of wood but also the conditions that the wood is subjected to. I had built a layout in my garage but I made the mistake of not draughtproofing or insulating. I thought that as I had selected treated wood I would be fine but this was not the case much to my horror!

[Robin Brasher]

The Isle of Purbeck Model Railway Group uses plywood. You will probably need to pre-drill it for track pins. 

 

I use MDF. I have not had any problems with it but I have heard that it warps if it gets into contact with water and is heavy. I also have not had any problems with chipboard but other people have said it warps if it gets wet. I have found Sundaeler hopeless.

[Guest]

Could you please give us a bit more detail as to where your layout is going to be situated? The cause of the wood warping may not only be the choice of wood but also the conditions that the wood is subjected to. I had built a layout in my garage but I made the mistake of not draught proofing or insulating. I thought that as I had selected treated wood I would be fine but this was not the case much to my horror!

It's always stored in my Bedroom, so room temp (16-21 degrees Celsius)

But....the glue I used was very watery, not going to use it this time!

[Guest]

The Isle of Purbeck Model Railway Group uses plywood. You will probably need to pre-drill it for track pins. 

 

I use MDF. I have not had any problems with it but I have heard that it warps if it gets into contact with water and is heavy. I also have not had any problems with chipboard but other people have said it warps if it gets wet. I have found Sundaeler hopeless.

Thanks for the info! I used 6mm MDF before, but the glue I used was very watery!

[David C]

I've always had problems with baseboards, noticeably at the ends/joints with the neighbours. With Woodstowe, my BR(W) BLT, I was determined to avoid this, and so far, its worked. 

 

The baseboards are made from softwood frames topped with 6mm plywood. The timber to form the framing was very carefully selected to ensure individual lengths were straight and (most importantly) twist free - you'd be surprised how many lengths weren't! Frames were constructed with diagonals to prevent the whole baseboard twisting. The ends of the plywood tops (i.e. where they butted against each other) were treated with wood hardener. When dry, each baseboard was given two coats of primer.

 

The layout was originally stored in our house until we moved and it was transferred to an unheated, uninsulated garage and subjected to huge temperature variations. After over 4 years, the boards have not warped or distorted at all.

 

I think we underestimate the amount of water absorption by wood during construction, ballasting, scenicking etc. which causes it to warp. Diagonal bracing also helps.

 

Future baseboards will be treated in the same way, although I will probably opt for all ply construction to reduce weight.

 

David C

[peach james]

Use ply.  It takes more work to make the baseboards, but then they don't usually warp.   If you use any softwood (1x2, 1x4, 1x27.5"), it WILL twist/bend at some point.  I had some sag up to 1/2" over a 6' span.  Plywood has the advantage that the different layers are in different directions, so almost assuredly, one of the layers will be opposing whatever the other one is doing...so the whole lot should remain much more dimensionally stable.

 

I have different views than most UK modellers, as over here it is quite common to build as I have, with styrospan (high density rigid Styrofoam) forming the main bed of the layout, and plywood used to encase that.  It all does depend, as ultimately for a layout that is going to be portable, weight does play some factor in how well/easy it is to transport.

 

James

[jazz]

For my current garage layout I use 3/4" MDF on 2" x 1" white wood frame. The back scene and front skirt is thin ply and acts as extra bracing. The whole thing is screwed every 12" and bonded with full strength exterior grade PVA. (The garage is integral, very cold in winter and does house the car too)

 

I have never experienced any warping.

 

This method has worked well in wooden garden sheds, garage and loftspace for more years than I care to remember.

 

Outside baseboard areas have been made with marine ply over a 6" x 1" treated framing with 12" facings of pretreated fencing slats. The marine ply was treaded with cuprinol. Screwed in the same manor but using brass screws and again exterior PVA.

[colin penfold]

[url=http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/41387-bargain-hunters/page-48#entry1235102]

 

sorry, after combining fat finger syndrome and android technology with swearing, I think I now have posted a working link

[raymw]

9mm ply for everything, wp if you must, but use this for glue - http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p78519  far better than pva and the like. I've glued together outdoor garden furniture with it. You need no screws or nails, just clamp it for ten minutes or so while it expands into your poorly made joints   Then give everything a couple of coats of paint, both sides and edges - a grey plastic emulsion will do, Dulux/whatever.

 

Best wishes,

 

Ray

[Re6/6]

From bitter personal experience I would avoid MDF like the plague. Some people find it OK but not me!

 

We had to send the original Matford layout to landfill due to warping and instability. It would probably be still with us if we's used 9mm good quality ply.

 

The new version will be made using the light polyfoam method.

 

edit: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/568/entry-5183-matford-new/

[bike2steam]

I go along with the complete 9mm ply construction, with good quality exterior grade ply from a reputable timber merchant, NOT a cheap DIY outlet like B&Q.  

[Pete 75C]

I've used 6 and 9mm MDF tops and softwood L girder framing in the past without any apparent long term issues. I always seal the MDF tops with a couple of thin PVA washes. This does help because as has previously been mentioned, we do tend to throw a lot of water at our layouts especially during ballasting. I find using L girders for framing maintains rigidity and prevents warping, but only if you use straight timbers to begin with! DIY store shrink wrapped softwood is generally pretty bad and I prefer to pre-select timber from a decent tiber merchant. It is soul-destroying to see your hard work ruined by bendy baseboards but a little planning can help prevent this. If in doubt, I tend to over-engineer at the expense of lightness.

[chris p bacon]

A good quality birch ply in 6mm for framing and 9mm for tops.

 

Click on my layout link below and you'll see 2 types of boards I've constructed.

 

I'm not quite sure why you would have had problems with your boards if they were in a bedroom, and the "watery" glue ? was it PVA ? if so should not be a problem.

[corax67]

I had the same problem with softwood frames warping on my layout & rendering it unusable.

 

I was able to remove the baseboards from the frames and have now constructed lattice style frames from 6.5mm birch ply in 100mm deep strips. These are light and solid as a rock.

[Guest]

A good quality birch ply in 6mm for framing and 9mm for tops.

 

Click on my layout link below and you'll see 2 types of boards I've constructed.

 

I'm not quite sure why you would have had problems with your boards if they were in a bedroom, and the "watery" glue ? was it PVA ? if so should not be a problem.

Watered down PVA with a dash of Green washing up liquid, helps it all soak through rather than just sit on top!

[Guest]

So, from what I can gather, this should be alright?

 

The Baseboard will be 2 sections, each 3' x 1', they will also be varnished with at least one coat!

I can use 6mm MDF, but I have to make a very strong/rigid frame for it
But If I use 9mm ply, it's less likely to warp anyway, but I'll still try and make a decent frame!

For the frame, I'm going to use Pine? Not sure if that's okay! But I will give it at least 2 coats of Varnish! With a Lattice arrangement 

Most of what I've just said is probably wrong, so please feel free to correct me!

[Kris]

You can use ply for the frame as well. What ever wood you choose, sealing it is a good idea. 

[Guest]

Thanks Kris!
I chose Pine as I work with it quite frequently at school, and I find it easy to work with, may use Ply though!

Matt

[Harry2013]

You should also consider the anticipated 'life expectancy' of your board.

 

If you want it to last, say, 10yrs+ then more effort/expense might be justified than if you intend to scrap it in 18 months and build another new layout.

[peach james]

I'd recommend making the supporting structure out of ply. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Photos of Long Marton by Peach James, on Flickr

 

In order, they are the 1995 version of Long Marton, the 2001 version, and the 2004 version.  The 2004 version is still around...the other two burned well...but worked poorly.  The single photo of the 2004 version shows roughly how I build using plywood to make the strength, then Styrofoam on top carved to shape.  (there are more photos as to "how" I have done it since then...)  I would strongly recommend designing/stealing someone elses ideas that have some examples of long lasting NOW, because if you make a faff of the base of the railway, everything else will not work.  The middle version is the one that experienced some outstandingly big amounts of warping.  It was only intended to be temporary, but still...at least one of the cross brace pairs ended up with shims cut from 1/2" ply (12 mm) stuffed between the sides and the cross member.  That's with wood from Home Depot...

 

James

[Kenton]

It is often not so much the base board surface material it is more often the supporting framework that is far more important.

 

Having personally used just about everything from pin board/cheap ply up to marine ply and even chipboard and framing of softwood pine to seasoned oak for framing - the location for storage is far more a problem. If it goes through extremes of temperature and humidity then most materials will warp.

 

Softwood (cheap and nasty) from BBQ and other DIY stores starts out twisted and warped - it will never get better only worse so 2x1 pine is near useless.

 

Over time I have come to use 9mm marine quality ply and you can get away with lightweight frames. Alternatively 6mm Birch ply on vertical ply and softwood block sandwich frames of 4" height.

 

I have even used MDF (6mm) with some success but with coats of varnish to seal it. The density of the material makes no difference to me because track pins are of no use to man or beast anyway.

[Guest]

I guess I'll be making the frames out of ply as well then! Thanks guys!

[Shedman5]

As said 9mm ply tops with softwood framing, I have used this in my shed for over 5 years with no problem, screwing the tops to the softwood frame has meant that when I decided to start a new layout last year I unscrewed the tops and replaced with new ones.

 

All timber was sourced from a timber merchants rather than a DIY superstore.

[Guest]

As said 9mm ply tops with softwood framing, I have used this in my shed for over 5 years with no problem, screwing the tops to the softwood frame has meant that when I decided to start a new layout last year I unscrewed the tops and replaced with new ones.

 

All timber was sourced from a timber merchants rather than a DIY superstore.

Timber merchants eh! For the layout that's now being scrapped I got the wood from B&Q, so will probably try that!