Lets make those turnout kits we all have 4 mm & 7 mm

[hayfield]

John, I think the topic below would be of use for those looking at building curved turnouts.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=45544

 

Michael

 

 

Michael

 

Thanks for that, for me it is very interesting for 2 reasons. I have only just briefly scanned through it but off to the club tonight and hope to pick up a plan for a turnout for our new O gauge club layout as the club want a part built one on the stand at the Watford Finescale Show 15th/ 16th Feb  http://watfordmrc.org/watford-finescale-show-2/. The other thing is the C&L etched tiebars as I have a set to see if I can use them on my O 16.5 layout

[hayfield]

I was given a plan for a curved turnout at the club on Thursday

 

 

the first job was to glue the plan to a building board, I decided to add a copy of the common crossing to the board. The toe end of the turnout has been cut short as it will go over a baseboard join

 

 

thankfully the sleepers were precut. They went down very easily. Next job is to make a jig for the 1in8 vee crossing

[hayfield]

I hope these 7 mm shots will also help with 4 mm turnout building

 

 

The first thing to do in on the rail within the Vee which is the main line, outside line in this case. As the tip (nose) of the Vee is blunt you have to file the head and foot away over about 1" to 1.5 " then bend the rail straight. This is because if you were to grind/file an angle the tip would only be both the foot and head of the rail and no central web making it weak in real life.

 

 

Once you had done the first part then you need to file the crossing angle on both rails, note the tip is blunt

 

 

Here is the branch part of the turnout Vee and unlike the other rail it is filed to a point and the head and foot of the rail is pointed without any web. You will have to file the foot of both rails a bit further back so it fits snugly as the foot is wider than the head

 

 

I made the jig from some strip wood and an off cut of 2x1, as the feet are wider than the head make sure the rail is vertical and not at an angle, If there are any slight gaps solder will fill them

[hayfield]

Might put some off on the other hand an intro into P4 track building, this is a link to a site which has the articles from the Model Railway Constructor P4 track building guide/building http://www.norgrove.me.uk/P4-articles.html  

 

I found it very interesting, but very glad that things have moved on and become easier 

[hayfield]

Whilst this is for a 7 mm turnout, the pictures are clearer than the 4 mm ones, the process is exactly the same

 

Now to the wing rails, first one built slightly oversize and before bending the flair. The brass strip is from a brass etched fret (Comet coach underframe I think)

 

I have now soldered a piece of brass to the throat

 

I now attach the wing rail to the Vee using a thick metal bar to keep both in line and a gauge to set the wing rail gap. The wing rail is then soldered to the 2 brass strips soldered to the Vee

 

I have now fashoned up the second wing rail

 

Again using the wing rail gauge I have soldered the second wing rail to the Vee and other wing rail

 

The common crossing is now finished ready for fitting, I leave the Vee rail ends too long as these will be cut to size when fitting to the layout. The wing rails have been cut to size and the brass strips have been cut and filed flush with the rails. Now awaiting the chairs 

[hayfield]

Yesterday I stuck the common crossing to the sleepers and cut to length the outer stock rail



The common crossing is 2 sleepers short as the turnout crosses a base board joint. The part of the crossing after the wing rails should be block chairs which both has to be partly scratch built, the initial fixing was as follows. Bridge chairs were placed at each end and I put dabs of epoxy glue on the brass strips under the crossing. The crossing was put in place and the first two bbridge chairs were glued to the sleeper using solvent



At the other end of the crossing I cut two chairs in half leaving the foot of the chair on the part I was going yo use (part without the key). I then super glued them to the rails over the second from last sleeper. When dry I used solvent to stick them to the sleeper. I removed the two bridge chairs at the end and followed the process again.

To represent the last block chair I just spliced two of the key chairs to fit. The other block chair centre was made from glueing a thin piece of plastic the correct shape and size between the rails and made two thin keys from plastic and fitted with solvent. The block chair at the other end was made exactly the same way as the first by splicing 2 half chairs in place. I then fitted 2 half chairs each side on the wing rails ( as they but up against where the brass strips were soldered they should be cut flush at the bottom as the foot will not slide under the rail, I have not fitted the nose chair as I feel a slide chair will look closer to the correct crossing nose chair than a standard one.

 

The stock rails are just cut to length and not fitted yet

[Michael Woolford]

Tomorrow morning, I have some spare time. I have had a turnout kit sat in a box since getting back from the Warley show in November. I plan on having a go and seeing what happens; I will make do with cutting half chairs etc. until I am confident in my skills. I'm not going to bother with special chairs until I build track for the new layout.

 

I have been wanting to have a go at building some track for a long time now (at least 8 months now), and finally making a start tomorrow will hopefully give me a boost and encourage work on the new layout to finally pick up some pace.

 

I will post some pictures etc. and hopefully some feedback will follow. Big thanks must go to John for starting this thread which has given me the encouragement I needed, to finally have a go.

 

Michael

[hayfield]

Michael

 

That's good someone else is starting. I presume you are making a C&L kit with pre made common crossing and switch blades, I think Peter advises fitting the straight stock rail first, I prefer to fit the common crossing first. Both have as many advantages over each other and it just comes down to personal preference.

 

Can I say dont trust anything, check that the plan has the Vee in the centre (Peters are fine) and which ever order you built the common crossing and straight rail in just do a dry run first making sure you are not building it lop sided.

 

I will download some photos in the near future, as both 4 mm & 7 mm turnouts are nearing completion.

[Michael Woolford]

John,

 

When you use the special switch chairs, do you have to add a centerpiece to chair 2P? I'm hoping this is something that you can answer, thanks.

 

Michael 

[hayfield]

Michael

 

The answer is yes unless you are building an Exactoscale turnout P4 kit

 

The reason is that in the kit the switch rail is connected to the stock rail.

 

As the inside part is the end of a slide chair I just top and tail a slide chair to fit in-between both parts.

 

It may be like PL1 chair, where the stock rail is held in a chair with a key as both PL1 & PL2 chairs differ from normal slide chairs, in that case either fit the inner part of a standard chair without the bolts, then fit a cut down slide chair or replace the chair for a standard chair, chop off the inner bolts and fit the slide plate of a slide chair.

 

Any photos?

 

I have been making some 7 mm common crossings and switch rails for the clubs layout, a little extra work is needed but is clearly visible so worth it

[Michael Woolford]

I can't remember exactly how everything goes together, I'll have a look later and post some photos.

 

Michael

[Michael Woolford]

John,

 

I started my first turnout at the end of January with just the timbers laid. This week I started with the rails; I now have the common crossing, straight stock rail and curved rail in place (although the curved rail is only fixed at either end). I am now at the stage of fitting the switch rails, hence my query earlier.

 

I have all of the slide chairs on one side prepared and all that needs to be done is to fit the switch and some cosmetic components before fixing the curved rail fully and installing the other switch blade.

 

 

I can now see what you mean about trimming a normal slide chair to fit in between the two parts. The picture shows the chair without this part and since there was nothing in the pack of switch chairs I had to ask for some clarification.

 

Michael

[hayfield]

Michael

 

Its looking very good, I think its on the slip sprue that there are extra 1PR/1PL chairs which could be used on 2PR&PL but as the switch rails are so close to the stock rails it wont notice too much. As I said you could cut down a normal chair and splice a slide chair on.

 

As for the centre parts of 3 PL&PR and 4PL&PR. I leave fitting these until the switch rails are fitted and both outer chairs have set. These chairs are designed for P4 turnouts and the size of the gap may vary and the centre parts may need trimming.

 

Great shot clearly showing the details, looks very good                   

[hayfield]

Having been busy I have not until now been able to finish off both turnouts

 

A copperclad tiebar had been added, very practable but a bit un-sightly. A tortoise of similar underboard unit where 2 wires attach to the point blades should make these redundant and perhaps a Wills point rodding kit might even hide them even further

 

 

Here is the big-en, the common crossing is a bit short as it goes over a base board joint. Certainly impressive and nice and chunky

 

 

Close up of the switch, a bit of paint will tone down the block chairs and will look better than chopped up standard chairs

 

 

This is an Ambis tiebar available from C&L and I guess others. Looks to be very promising.

 

The turnouts need the switch rails electrically bonded to the stock rails, will do that later.

 

Both these turnouts will be at the Watford Finescale show this weekend 15 & 16 of Feb on the Watford and District Model Railway club's stand, you can pick them up and have a better look if you wish.

 

Details here  http://watfordmrc.org/watford-finescale-show-2/

[hayfield]

I have now fitted the bonding wires to the turnouts

 

This is the OO turnout, just cut away the carrier paper and solder a piece of wire across. This is a lot less work than dropper wires, and is prototypical in most cases.

 

Same process has been carried outon the 7 mm turnouts

 

 

as I have built the turnout switch rails in 2 pieces and used plastic tiebars I needed additional bonding wires.i made them in a U shape so they can be hidden under the ballast

[meil]

Classic beginner's error. The point ends should be where the yellow line is, not dangling in mid-air.

 

The green line shows the inevitable derailment that will occur.

[hayfield]

Meil

 

Thanks, in 4 mm scale I do tend to take the tips of the blades to near the end of the sleepers, as I don't fit the slide chairs till I have soldered the tiebars in place. Now in 7 mm scale these finer matters do really show up. Though if the picture was taken from the other way it would look not so large

 

I feel that you also may have made a mistake in the reply. You have set your yellow line in the centre of the slide chair, which on the photographic evidence I have is also wrong as it uses the full width of the sliding plate on the slide chair.

 

Also your green line has made no allowance for where I have positioned the set point and I can assure you that stock goes through the switch quite happily. I can assure you the blade starts after the set point in the rail

 

 

Thanks again for showing me the error, I will remove the sleeper and cut the tips to the end of the slide plate. I do welcome all constructive comments and am more than happy with errors or mistakes being corrected, that how we all learn.

 

May I be as so bold to suggest that when you add replies to threads, that you try not to be rude. 

[martin_wynne]

Classic beginner's error. The point ends should be where the yellow line is, not dangling in mid-air.

 

For REA bullhead switches your yellow line is in the wrong place. The switch tips should overlap the timber centre by 3.5". The timber is 12" wide, so that means the tips should be 2.5" from the edge of the timber. For GWR switches those dimensions are 4" and 2" respectively.

 

It is very important when correcting others to make absolutely sure that your information is correct. Otherwise misinformation and confusion gets spread and repeated all across the web, and beginners have no chance of getting things right.

 

If you use Templot for your templates, everything is clearly marked. It is always a good idea to print two copies, so that after fixing the timbers on one of them you can still refer to all the markings on the other one:

 

 

All the required dimensional information is available in Templot:

 

 

regards,

 

Martin.

[Michael Woolford]

These may offer some clarification:

 

Straightcut Switch

Undercut switch

 

 

Both of the switches shown are B switches.

 

Michael

[hayfield]

Martin and Michael

thank you very much for the clear illustrations, they are both very usefull.

 

 

I had a quick trial this morning with some nickle silver rail using the method Martin showed. I have filed a rebate in one of the Vee rails (after filing off the web and bending the rail straight, you can see I have done the same with the other Vee rail

 

I then ground the Vee to the correct angle. The rebate I filed into the other rail to accept the rail should be twice the length away from the pointy end ( I had to re do it)

 

As you can see, I soldered the 2 rails together, then filed the  tip. This was much easier than the earlier methods,

 

You can see I have left the wedge in that I use whilst soldering and filing (and yes its plastic and will be changed)

 

On a separate note I had a couple of bits of good fortune. Whilst waiting for the nice chap at B&Q to cut some hardboard, I spotted some scrap off cuts in a shopping trolley, I politely asked if I could buy some and he said I could have them for free. 4 new building boards, 2 of which are 20 mm MDF 22" x 8" ideal for O gauge turnouts.

 

Then a trip to Hobbycraft, I wanted a new marker pen and was getting short of double sided tape

 

No pen, but the tape is £2 , wife hates it as not as sticky as the dearer stuff, but ideal tack for holding turnouts to a plan and removing them later. They were on buy one and get one free. Also as I had a gift voucher they had some nice storage boxes at £5 each  13" x 8.5" x 2.5" of usefull space, so I got a couple.

 

 

[hayfield]

I have just shortened the switch rails to what I believe is their correct position, so that part is sorted and earlier than expected my Ixion Hudswell Clarke loco arrived today. Thankfully dont have to rely on others to test the turnout under power.

[Kenton]

A dare is a dare so I finished off a loco kit on the WB (and got sidelined into opening another) and finally got around to opening that bag

 

The contents were both disappointing and a pleasant surprise.

All the rails seem to be there and bent to shape, the crossing Vs already made up though a little rough to the touch, 2 copies of instructions (someone told them I have a bad habit), a set of cut sleepers (I don't understand the colour coding) and a plan.

 

 

On the down side: the promised track gauge was missing and I was expecting some chairs or something cosmetic to cover up the solder joins.

 

Guests this weekend means a break from the WB so no progress until Monday - enough time to read the instructions (at least twice) 4 pages of A4 (that's more than you get for most loco kits) It just has to be difficult.

[hayfield]

Kenton

 

Nothing like jumping in at the deep end with a slip. If you have a digital calliper, it should be suffice to double up as a track gauge.

 

All the parts seem to have been prefabricated, which will save a lot of time.

 

If you are thinking of glueing cosmetic chairs to the rail/sleepers, then the rail will need to be raised from the sleepers by about 1mm.

 

One idea just to throw a spanner in the works, if the rail is code 125 bullhead why not buy some sleepers (as you seem to want to fit chairs therefore buying them anyway). Make up the common crossings by soldering scrap brass shim under them (or anything up to 1 mm thick) the K crossings can be soldered up in situ later

 

Good luck

[Kenton]

Thanks. It was a gift for a (now) dead parrotproject otherwise I would have started with something simpler (it was to go with Peco Points).

 

I don't know why I expected cosmetic chairs in the bag - I guess I just thought in 7mm they would look rather obvious if they were missing - that poses a question, where to get them? and also sets back the construction as inserting 1mm shims might be another problem (finding brass.n-s that thick and cutting them, (or sourcing) .... that makes me wonder if non-cosmetic ones are available?

 

I thought this was supposed to be easy !! Decisions decisions.

 

I do have that brass track gauge and callipers - it was just that the instructions said a gauge was supplied in the kit - it wasn't. The rail is Code 125.

[hayfield]

Kenton

 

Cosmetic chairs are just normal C&L / Exactoscale chairs cut in half.

 

Code 75 bulhead rail laid on its side is about 1mm thick.

 

Thinking out loud, you could just buy some chairs and glue them to the copperclad sleepers with superglue, but ply sleepers would be best.

 

Are you just building this for fun or are you / going to be into O gauge ?