Jamiel Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 HiI would be most grateful if anyone is able to help with part of the final assembly on a 4mm Parkside Dundas Grampus kit.I have assembled most of the kit, but am trying to locate where the basket assembly fits on the underside., and how to put the parts together.The instructions say that the baskets fit into the holes on the underside, but when I try and fit them they don't seem to fit, nor are there any diagrams to show how the pieces should fit, or align to the body.I have looked on the web at both prototype pictues and the assembled models, but they have always (understandably) been on tracks obscuring much of the detail on the underside.If anyone has made this kit and could post a photo of how the underside should look (the model lying on its back) it would be very helpful.RegardsJamie PS. I hope I have posted this in the right part of the forum. If any moderator sees this and thinks it should be moved please go ahead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 I had this problem, battled with it and fitted as best I could see only to conclude it would obstruct my coupling units so off came again and so remain. I finally reckoned that the basket went at around 30 deg angle to side, with end approx level with buffer beam. Happy to be corrected on that but don't bother if you plan to fit tension locks, kadees or similar... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamiel Posted April 10, 2014 Author Share Posted April 10, 2014 Thanks for that Matt. I did wonder if they went at that angle, but nothing was mentioned in the instructions, although there are marks at that angle on the base.I have fitted Smith sprung 3 link couplings, so will have work around those, but still like to give it a try to fit them if I can.Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted April 11, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 11, 2014 Model Railway Constructor. October 1969, has drawings. Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Even when the wagon doesn't have a floor, photographing the prototype isn't easy. Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamiel Posted April 11, 2014 Author Share Posted April 11, 2014 Thanks Jon, that does help a lot. Excellent photos, which I am sure will be of help to anyone modelling the grampus. Where did you shoot them?Thanks Mike, that issue is actually on Ebay for £5, but now I know the angel the basket goes at (which should have been indicated in the instructions), I think I will be OK. There are a surprising number of back issues, even back to the 1940's on Ebay.I'll post some photos when it is all together, it was easier to assemble than the accompanying Cambrian Kits Catfish and Dogfish, but hopfully will make a nice rake when all dowe.Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWales Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Have built at least a dozen of these excellent kits and must say I never had a problem with the baskets and locating 3 links. The old style PC15 kit had a diagram showing the locating holes on the underside, which is omitted from the revised kit. Model Railway Journal 154 has a useful article by Steve Hall of constructing a rake of 4-could be worth your while in obtaining a copy! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted April 14, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 14, 2014 The old style PC15 kit had a diagram showing the locating holes on the underside, which is omitted from the revised kit. That's progress for you! Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWales Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 In fairness to all concerned, most Parkside Dundas kits are very user friendly to build and a quick way of assembling a balanced freight stock Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamiel Posted April 18, 2014 Author Share Posted April 18, 2014 To be honest Martin, having the instructions from the earlier kit would have been a great help if they showed that the baskets were mounted at an angle.It does also seem that once the holes are located and the baskets added, they are actually a mirror of the photos Jon posted, or perhaps this differed over time and different batches.The first of the two I am making has gone together OK, I added a few parts that weren't in the kit, to make all the angled bars at the sides, and it needs a little filling.Hopefully the second one will go together a little more easily.Whilst the old Airfix kits were such accurate models as Parside Dundas, their exploded diagrams to help with construction were miles ahead of any of the model rail kits, Cambrian, Parside Dundas or Dapol I have built recently. They wouldn't eve need to print anything like that these days, they could show some stills or a video on the web.Thankfully for many of the kits around these days, places like this forum, or those who post on YouTube make up for the lack of clarity in some manufacturers instructions.I will post some photos when I get chance.Thanks for everyone's help and comments.Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Thanks Jon, that does help a lot. Excellent photos, which I am sure will be of help to anyone modelling the grampus. Where did you shoot them? Didcot in 2007 It does also seem that once the holes are located and the baskets added, they are actually a mirror of the photos Jon posted, or perhaps this differed over time and different batches. They shouldn't be, whilst I can't pretend to have looked under every diagram of Grampus, every one that I have, has always been that way around. I've found a photo of a basket under a vac brake Grampus that shows slightly better the location. Peak Rail Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWales Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 So where do you apply the Mek Pak? :jester: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamiel Posted April 19, 2014 Author Share Posted April 19, 2014 Hi JonYou are right, they are not reversed,it is just the real ones are the right way up, and I was looking at my model upside down (without my brain switched on either it seems). If only BR would park its wagons upsdie down, then it would make it all so much easier when we are modelling the underside of kits, so inconsiderate.More great photos, especially the detail of the brake gear.I'll post a photo of my efforts later, and hope to make a start on the second one.Thanks for everyone's help.Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamiel Posted April 20, 2014 Author Share Posted April 20, 2014 Well I have got two of them together. I managed to break one of the buffer beams putting the sprung coupling in, so one has had some repairs done which used a non standard buffer beam (it might have happened, it certainly did to lots of diesel engines with variations on cabs, etc.) I also added a few details and also some strengthening in a couple of places where I didn't manage to get the pieces to fit flush.I also added the cross braces to the brake gear, and the safety hoops on the side opposite the basket. I did get one in behind a basket, but you can't see it from above, so I didn't bother with the other ones that would go there. Most of all thanks to everyone's help, I got the baskets into position on the underside, and when seen from the above, low down, they do add a nice piece of detail, and do fit behind the kind of coupling I am using, although I can see that other types might cause problems when fitting them. I think I have also seen prototype photos where the basket had been removed.Probably a little fillinghere and there to do, and I need to add weighting (liquid lead), and also decide if they will have a permanent load fitted.Thanks for the help, I will post images of the full engineers rake in the thread for Ellerby in layout topics.Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Jamie, I have this horrible feeling that those brakes have gone astray - I think they might be wrong way around so that you lower the lever and the shoes move away from the wheels? I'm not sure there are cross- beams on the 4 shoe brakes, just one down the middle. sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamiel Posted April 20, 2014 Author Share Posted April 20, 2014 Thanks JonI see what you mean. I will have to live with it now.Again in the instructions there is nothing to say which way to fit them, only 'in line with the wheels'. I don't want my hand holding while making a kit, but it would be helpful, if there was a little more in he instructions. At least the Cambrian kits had marking on anything that related one end or the other. I still miss the old Airfix exploded diagrams, they showed everything, and whilst being aimed at children modellers, they did lead to kits being made as they should be.Considering these are the first kits I have made for over 30 years, then I am fairly happy how they are going, and it is all a learning process. These will not be the most used rolling stock, so are a good test bed for finding out how things go together for other builds.Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Even when parkside give instructions they aren't always right http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/44729-did-these-wagons-have-cross-rodding-to-connect-the-brake-gear-on-each-side/?p=489707 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamiel Posted April 20, 2014 Author Share Posted April 20, 2014 Looking at the last set of photos you posted Jon, there would appear to be safety loops on either side of the wheel, which would suggest cross beams on each set of brakes. That said that wagon has brakes both sides of the wheel, which the model I have made does not, so maybe a later addition anyway. I hadn't thought about the central cross bar, it would be easy to add, but probably after I have made a decision on the weighting, as the centre underside would probably be the best place to add a weighted area.Interesting that Parkside got it wrong on one of their sets of instructions, I feel better about reversing the brake gear now. I can only imagine the howls of disdain on the forum had Hornby or Bachmann got that wrong on one of their releases.Just sitting the rake, 3x Dogfish, 2x Catfish (all Cambrian) 2x Grampus 1x BR 13ton wagon (Parkside Dundas) and a Hornby Shark together on the layout does make a much longer rake than I had first imagined. I am looking forward to painting, weathering and finishing them off, even given the odd inaccuracies along the way.Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 there are two types of brake under grampi, the majority were unffitted (with power brake) so they have 4 shoes that push against the inner tread of each wheel. the 'fitted' (with vac brake) type have 8 brake shoes that clasp each wheel from either side. j Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian Smeeton Posted April 21, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 21, 2014 'scuse my ignorance,but what were the baskets for? Regards Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 'scuse my ignorance,but what were the baskets for? Regards Ian To stow the removable upper planks from the ends in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 there are two types of brake under grampi, the majority were unffitted (with power brake) so they have 4 shoes that push against the inner tread of each wheel. the 'fitted' (with vac brake) type have 8 brake shoes that clasp each wheel from either side. j But only the 8 shoe had a yoke joining the brakes across the wagon - as shown on JonHalls photos. The 4 shoe model is incorrect; there are no yokes, but there should be a bar joining the two V hangers so that the brakes could be applied from either side. The earlier prototype photo appears to have had the brake shoes removed. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamiel Posted April 22, 2014 Author Share Posted April 22, 2014 Thanks Paul.Time to get the scalpel out.Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted April 25, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 25, 2014 Jamie There are some 4mm and 7mm kit built grampii owned by members of the society.if you come to the open day on 10th may they could be brought along for perusal.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamiel Posted April 25, 2014 Author Share Posted April 25, 2014 Thanks Barry.I would like to pop in to the club when I get the chance. It does look as though work is likely to take me back to London, Mon-Fri at least.The good news is that would give me funds for the hobby again, the bad news is more time away from home.It would be good to come to the open day though.Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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