RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted April 17, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 17, 2014 Right, second area for discussion of signalling bits and we move on to Point Operation. Points have been there virtually from the start, in fact they were there before locomotives. Someone realised it was more convenient in moving stuff around to have the lines joined up and a means of getting from one to the other. This thread is primarily intended for information on point operation, be it hand levers, springs, rodding, double wires or machines. Please try to keep to the topic where if possible. I will start a couple of other threads to cover other equipment on the track and around it. Feel free to post your own pictures but please add date and place information if possible as there are a lot of local quirks due to company history and progression of standards over the years. So, to get you away here's a bit of a puzzler. Operation by hand generator was popular because it didn't need a big power supply. The signalman just pulled the lever to the check lock position, wound the big handle (AKA Hurdy Gurdy), the points went over and when detected the check lock picked and the lever could be moved to the full normal or reverse position. These were very popular on GWR lines and used the Westinghouse Style C machine. These would turn over from as low as 30 volts DC and were OK up to well over 150 volts DC. I have seen one work at over half a mile fron the signal box with ease. Indications could be fed back by dry battery. This particular one is on the Up Goods Loop at Aynho Junction. Photograph C E Steele Hand Generator machines were very popular during WW2. They enabled Refuge Sidings to be converted to Goods Running Loops without the need for another signal box or an expensive power supply at the points themselves. The signal protecting the facing points would be well within wire working, and the loop could be long enough for up to about 100 wagons. The thing about this one, pictured here in early 1981, was that the Goods Running Loop at Aynho had a signal box at both ends until Wolvercote to Aynho Resignalling and these point were mechanically worked. I was working on the Telecomms side for the Bicester - Aynho singling at that time so checked out my STN, and sure enough it tells me that between 14th-16th September 1968 the signal box at Aynho Station would abolished and the points at that end of the loop would be worked by a Westinghouse Style C machine operated by Aynho Junction signal box Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 All new front end, without facing point lock, installed by me 2012.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 All new front end, without facing point lock, installed by me 2012.. DSC08768a.jpg Not yet brought back into use, the switches are clamped and scothed. Clamp correctly placed under the rail. Yes, I had a loon put a clamp over the rail, he managed to knocl out most of Paragon Yard for almost five hours. Mick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailWest Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 What's the curious 'bendy strip' fixed to the outside of the rail web please? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 What's the curious 'bendy strip' fixed to the outside of the rail web please? Point heater, this one was gas. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted April 18, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 18, 2014 Point heater, this one was gas. I think that style of gas heater was only used by the North Eastern Region - but am open to further information on the matter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted April 18, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 18, 2014 Some earlier point machines. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 Some earlier point machines. pm5.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted April 18, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 18, 2014 Some earlier point machines. pm5.jpg The only skirmishes I had with ML machines were at Stoke PSB and Rugeley B Power Station. They were unreliable and not well liked by the staff in the early days. I don't know if they improved later. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 The only skirmishes I had with ML machines were at Stoke PSB and Rugeley B Power Station. They were unreliable and not well liked by the staff in the early days. I don't know if they improved later. My only encounter with them was at Rugeley B Power Station and that was only to take them out and replace them with HW's that i had sourced and overhauled. There were a number of circuit modifications to accommodate this as there was no WJR circuit. Point motor cut off was achieved by an overload relay in the locs. It was a super job to replace the machines as i got to design the circuitry myself etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted April 18, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 18, 2014 BR did the testing and commissioning of the MGR sidings signalling when they were put in (1969?). A very cold Sunday morning crossing Cannock Chase in freezing fog to get there. Come to think of it I probably helped test those points when they were first hooked up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 A mechanical facer, by my own fair paws, on Schwiags.. and a trap operated by an escapement drive, driven from the point machine at the facing end.. Edit to add.. HB point machine at the facing end and an HH201 detector on the trailing.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinzaC55 Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Just scanned these photos from "Railway Signalling and Communications Installation and Maintenance" from 1946. Hope you like. Point Motor (1) par PinzaC55, on ipernity Point Motor (2) par PinzaC55, on ipernity Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted April 24, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 24, 2014 A mechanical facer, by my own fair paws, on Schwiags.. DSC00498.jpg and a trap operated by an escapement drive, driven from the point machine at the facing end.. DSC09998.jpg Edit to add.. HB point machine at the facing end and an HH201 detector on the trailing.. A long time since I saw one of those. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted April 24, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 24, 2014 Just scanned these photos from "Railway Signalling and Communications Installation and Maintenance" from 1946. Hope you like. Point Motor (1) par PinzaC55, on ipernity Point Motor (2) par PinzaC55, on ipernity Just scanned these photos from "Railway Signalling and Communications Installation and Maintenance" from 1946. Hope you like. Point Motor (1) par PinzaC55, on ipernity Point Motor (2) par PinzaC55, on ipernity The HA machine at the top was the first type I ever worked on putting in. The whole of Crewe North and South was fitted with those, so a regular stream of work for the Telegraph Shop in Gresty Road stripping and rebuilding them after every relaying job. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColHut Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Dear SignalEngineer, Do you have any pics of the generator and levers? regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 From the Westinghouse catolouge, exact date unkown. There was a 1927 installation at Kirkella Cutting H&B Section, I have no photo's of the frame, only a signalling diagram and the MoT Inspection report. Mick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 The levers in the frame would not look any different to the others, they would be provided with electric locks to hold the lever in the check lock position until detection was obtained but those extra parts are not usually visible. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted April 25, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 25, 2014 HAND GENERATOR 1.jpgHAND GENERATOR 2.jpg From the Westinghouse catolouge, exact date unkown. There was a 1927 installation at Kirkella Cutting H&B Section, I have no photo's of the frame, only a signalling diagram and the MoT Inspection report. Mick. Thanks Mick, saved me searching when I get back to base. The Westinghouse catalogue dates are sometimes decipherable from a string of numbers at the bottom of the back page. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 I don't think I have the full catalogue, only photocopies of certain pagese. I will check later. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Point heater, this one was gas. I thought these were electric point heaters. Has anyone any pictures of the gas heaters? Some had calor bottles nearby in cages. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Has anyone come across one of these before. It was at Acton Lane (South end of the Freightliner Terminal at Willesden) It appears to allow mechanically worked points to be run through without damage to the lever frame. Has anyone else come across these? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted April 25, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 25, 2014 Has anyone come across one of these before. It was at Acton Lane (South end of the Freightliner Terminal at Willesden) It appears to allow mechanically worked points to be run through without damage to the lever frame. Has anyone else come across these? ACTON LANE CNV00070 d.JPG It appears to be effectively a form of spring slotted joint. Such points - often traps - can have advantages in a layout when it comes to locking as well as their obvious benefit of providing a trap which can be remotely closed to allow wrong direction movements. Oddly enough my current layout plan includes a spring slotted trap although I somehow doubt I will actually make it one in reality! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinzaC55 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 I think it is called a Depression Bar ? I seem to remember - despite lost brain cells - that they were used at Newcastle station before the 1989 resignalling. Edit* sorry I think I misinterpreted the photo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted April 25, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 25, 2014 Rosslare Harbour, 9th September 1986: Also a push/pull lever, Rosslare Harbour Cabin, 9th September 1986: Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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