RMweb Premium richierich Posted May 16, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 16, 2014 Couldn't find a discussion for the new PCA Metalair tank, which arrived this week in the shops. Picked one up today from my local model shop. Looks pretty good, although the farish version has etched ladders, rather than the plastic on this 4mm model. Below is a quick pic buffered up to a Hornby PCA vee tank. I wonder if Bachmann has modelled a loaded tank, in comparison to the Hornby? Buffer height and the compression on the suspension make this suggestion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 I think it's more likely the Hornby one is standing on tip-toe; I'm not sure of the convoluted ancestry of the Hornby one, but I recollect the Lima one rode high. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 I think it's more likely the Hornby one is standing on tip-toe; I'm not sure of the convoluted ancestry of the Hornby one, but I recollect the Lima one rode high. How do they compare with the Dapol offering? Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rembrow Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 I believe that the Hornby PCA depressed centre tank model uses the ex Dapol tooling. It was part of the tooling sale from Dapol to Hornby in the mid 1990s and was released in Hornby branding long before Hornby acquired the Lima tools. They were very similar models, however with the Lima model, much of the detail had to be added from plastic sprues. The Dapol model had the push in ex Airfix coupling system, which is the type on the current Hornby model. I don't believe Hornby have used the ex Lima single tank tooling which they presumably now own, however they did produce 3 versions of the ex Lima twin depressed centre tank bogie model. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium richierich Posted May 16, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted May 16, 2014 Yes I think the Hormby PCA is ex Dapol tooling rather than Lima tooling. I haven't got a lima one to make a comparison. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 It's the Hornby ex Dapol being high, it's almost like they modelled one suspended from a crane with the suspension at full stretch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 I don't understand why Dapol duplicated Lima's offering. There's a kind of Irony that Hornby ended up with two models of the same prototype. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugsley Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 ISTR that the Lima single tank tooling was modified to create the twin tank version, but I can't remember where I read it, so can't vouch for how accurate that is. The Dapol tank definitely had an 'up on stilts' look to it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 ISTR that the Lima single tank tooling was modified to create the twin tank version, but I can't remember where I read it, so can't vouch for how accurate that is. The Dapol tank definitely had an 'up on stilts' look to it. They have definitely re-run the bogie, but not the 4 wheel version.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Fisher Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 ISTR that the Lima single tank tooling was modified to create the twin tank version, but I can't remember where I read it, so can't vouch for how accurate that is. The Dapol tank definitely had an 'up on stilts' look to it. Could've sworn that the twin tank came before the single verison, but I stand to be corrected. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 I don't understand why Dapol duplicated Lima's offering. There's a kind of Irony that Hornby ended up with two models of the same prototype. There was a bit of that going on at the time, IIRC there were two competing HEA models as well... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 I don't understand why Dapol duplicated Lima's offering. There's a kind of Irony that Hornby ended up with two models of the same prototype. I think that all the duplication was the mess of the end of Palitoy/Mainline with the Replica Range of ex Mainline wagons having a brief life! Hence at one time 3 brands of HEA Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westie7 Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 The Bachmann Metalair is a cracker, but is shows the work required tothe Hornby PCA if you want to run together I found this same issue the minute I took the Metalair out of the box, but I was expecting it having read previous comments on DEMU about the height of the Dapol/Hornby wagons. The Lima one is not quite as bad. To me the solution is Bill Bedford's W Irons and new (Cambrian?) suspension mouldings to bring the sole bars into line. I was going to do this to my Lima PCAs as the wheels are crap and the inside of the suspension mouldings needs work to run smoothly I think the barrel is too high as well but that might be a hack too far. nearly as bad as cutting the Hornby suspension moulds down to height If anybody has any better ideas, feel free to jump in. Rgds Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 ISTR that the Lima single tank tooling was modified to create the twin tank version, but I can't remember where I read it, so can't vouch for how accurate that is. The Dapol tank definitely had an 'up on stilts' look to it. The Lima PDA tank is a different mould from the PCA as I tried to switch tanks on mine and the mount is different! Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 They're stood on the flanges - Wheel flange & diameter differences ???? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westie7 Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 I put mine on a piece of track, Hornby buffer Centreline 1.5mm higher than Bachmann. Think I also read somewhere that the Hornby could do with smaller wheels Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 The Bachmann Metalair is a cracker, but is shows the work required tothe Hornby PCA if you want to run together I found this same issue the minute I took the Metalair out of the box, but I was expecting it having read previous comments on DEMU about the height of the Dapol/Hornby wagons. The Lima one is not quite as bad. To me the solution is Bill Bedford's W Irons and new (Cambrian?) suspension mouldings to bring the sole bars into line. I was going to do this to my Lima PCAs as the wheels are crap and the inside of the suspension mouldings needs work to run smoothly I think the barrel is too high as well but that might be a hack too far. nearly as bad as cutting the Hornby suspension moulds down to height If anybody has any better ideas, feel free to jump in. Rgds Mark The barrel difference may not be an issue as the Metalair ones appear to be lower than the Chevrons as the way the barrel is angled raises it above the flat mounted Metalair ones! Which one is the Bachmann one based on as there are more weld lines on one but I can't remember if it is the Procor or Powell Duffryn built ones? Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westie7 Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Powell Duffryn data-sheet states max height 3940mm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrB Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 All, I took this video a while ago for modelling the train myself, it's the first clip in the film. You can get a good view of the height difference between them in a mixed rake. The V tanks do have wee bit of extra height. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZLaxhHtdZw Regards Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giz Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 All, I took this video a while ago for modelling the train myself, it's the first clip in the film. You can get a good view of the height difference between them in a mixed rake. The V tanks do have wee bit of extra height. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZLaxhHtdZw Regards Roy I notice the first cement wagon in the train is one of the French built PCAs that is available as a kit from 51L and proposed for rtr by Realtrack. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Just trying to find a shot that shows the height difference with the least amount of optical illusion, the usual platform height 3/4s images can make it seem a huge difference!(Earles Sidings, Sep 2007) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westie7 Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Martyn, Thats the very pic I looked at on your site when I unboxed mine. The rear siding in this shot shows it clearer Now just trying to track down if someone has previously used BB W-Irons to lower one of these, no joy yet. Rgds Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
26power Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 This picture may be useful re height comparison? Hopefully these are the right two wagon types! https://www.flickr.com/photos/37001/14249310323/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westie7 Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 For those with access to DEMU found this http://www.demu.org.uk/forum/index.php/topic,18383.msg159154.html#msg159154 Its BB W-Irons fitted not to the underside of the frame but with a hole cut and fitted on top and down through. Got one in progress, will post pics if it is successful but I think it will drop the Hornby PCA down the req height Rgds Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windjabbers Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Just a quick questiona about the livery on these wagons. Were they all delivered in the 'Blue Circle Cement' livery like 38-650? losing this branding over time. Or were some delivered without this from new? Thanks David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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