RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted October 23, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 23, 2014 Four signalling queries in connection with the Carlisle layout, period is about 1962. First one concerns the approach signal to Citadel station from the North, I have a photo of this signal from the back, looks similar to the ones at the South end but does anyone know what the theatre indicator displayed? Presumably P1/P3/P4/P7/P8 but were there any indications for the sidings - A, B, C, 1, 2 and 3? On the left of the viaduct is another signal going north, this seems to be only 2 aspect - would this be a distant signal? It's not very far past the signal near No4 box. Coming in on the N&C this signal is less than a train length from the approach signal with theatre indicator. The earliest photos showing this are about 1965-7, was this there in 1962 and is it a separate signal or asome sort of repeater? Turning to Garsdale there is some very puzzling signalling off the Hawes branch with a home signal (MR LQ in these photos) just before the platforms with a single post signal which has arms for both directions a short distance before it. There don't appear to be any sighting problems here and one photo shows the last home signal off and the other one on, with no train in view. Any views comments or explanations for these would be welcome. Michael Edge Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted October 23, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 23, 2014 For Garsdale a home for one direction and starter for the other, mounted on the same post? Might be a bit near the platform for that though but I'm a long, long way from being a signalling expert. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold DaveF Posted October 23, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 23, 2014 The signal at Garsdaleis shown on the signalling diagram, based on the situation in 1956, in Stations and Structures of the Settle and Carlisle by Anderson and Fox, pub OPC. The diagram shows a token release, the Home signal is annotated as "Home normal contact", and is lever 12, the down signal is lever 16 in the frame. As there is a starting signal at the platform end I so not know what the signal was for, unless it was what I knew as an "Advanced Starter" in my spotting days on the GCR route. Edit - At one time the Midland used the term "Advanced starting signal", certainly around 1910. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted October 23, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 23, 2014 Yes, I've got that diagram but it doesn't really explain it. The two signals are very close together. I woulld like to make all these work properly on the layout - when we get them from Steve Hewitt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted October 23, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 23, 2014 Garsdale : DaveF - Home Normal Contact means a line clear cannot be given unless the controlling lever is in the normal position - ie the signal is on. Not got my book down here so I've not got the diagram but I would guess the outer home is for acceptance purposes, the L/Q signal is right on the facing point which keeps the mechanical stuff local to it, but for block purposes 440yds is required in front of the home signal, I wonder if providing this extra signal removed the need to reverse the points at the end of the platform (where it joined the up main) when a train was accepted off the Hawes branch ? I've got a signal box diagram for one of the Carlisle boxes - I'll dig it out soon. The colour light you think is 2-aspect is probably a 3-aspect and would be new with the resignalling associated with Kingmoor yard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold DaveF Posted October 23, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 23, 2014 Garsdale : DaveF - Home Normal Contact means a line clear cannot be given unless the controlling lever is in the normal position - ie the signal is on. Not got my book down here so I've not got the diagram but I would guess the outer home is for acceptance purposes, the L/Q signal is right on the facing point which keeps the mechanical stuff local to it, but for block purposes 440yds is required in front of the home signal, I wonder if providing this extra signal removed the need to reverse the points at the end of the platform (where it joined the up main) when a train was accepted off the Hawes branch ? I've got a signal box diagram for one of the Carlisle boxes - I'll dig it out soon. The colour light you think is 2-aspect is probably a 3-aspect and would be new with the resignalling associated with Kingmoor yard. Many thanks for the explanation of the term (HNC), it makes a lot more sense now. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted October 23, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 23, 2014 The two signals at Garsdale on the same post was a common Midland Practice and was to do with sigthing from right hand drive Locos. there was exactly the same arrangement for the down starter and up home at Long Preston, with the post on the outside of the up main. When the lower quadrants were replaced with upper quadrants, dates varied but could have been up into the late 50's, the double signals were replaced by two upper quadrants in the normal position. I've got a similar thing on Green Ayre where the up home is mounted outside the down main. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted October 24, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 24, 2014 Garsdale : DaveF - Home Normal Contact means a line clear cannot be given unless the controlling lever is in the normal position - ie the signal is on. Not got my book down here so I've not got the diagram but I would guess the outer home is for acceptance purposes, the L/Q signal is right on the facing point which keeps the mechanical stuff local to it, but for block purposes 440yds is required in front of the home signal, I wonder if providing this extra signal removed the need to reverse the points at the end of the platform (where it joined the up main) when a train was accepted off the Hawes branch ? I've got a signal box diagram for one of the Carlisle boxes - I'll dig it out soon. The colour light you think is 2-aspect is probably a 3-aspect and would be new with the resignalling associated with Kingmoor yard. That makes sense for Garsdale but I still don't understand the Carlisle signalling very well. Thanks for your help, if you can dig out anything more it would be very helpful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted October 26, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 26, 2014 Carlisle - some information, I'm still digging From Carlisle No.4A box diagram (office copy) - dated 1958 Here;s the signal on the N&C - so Yes, it did exist in 1961. No help with the actual indications but here's No.4 down home - looks like 4 stencils to me, so the main theatre would (probably) show 1,3,4 and the stencils would show A, B, (No C as it's within 4As control) and 2 other indications for sidings controlled by No.4 Here's a photo of my complete 4A diagram to prove I own it - I know there several doubters out in the ether who think I make these things up and I actually don't know anything about signalling. The "misty" colour light is a 4-aspect brought into use when Kingmoor was commissioned in 1963, it also has a subsidiary for calling on. hth Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted October 26, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 26, 2014 Michael, You already have the answers to what indications were given at No.4 up home http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/57114-carlisle-colour-light-signals-1960s/?p=706628 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted October 26, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 26, 2014 Thanks for all your help, I feel as if I'm going round in circles with this project sometimes - and now I have the proof! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250BOB Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Hi Mike, I was searching RMweb to see if there was a thread on the Carlisle layout just featured in RM......but I haven't been able to find one, however, I suspect you are the Mike Edge in the article. I was fascinated by the project, and have a slight affinity to Carlisle. My great grandparents lived in a terrace house, No, 1 Hassell Street.......only 10 yds from the style that was at the bottom of the footbridge leading to Upperby Depot.....any wonder I had an interest in Railways when spending holidays at this house in the 50's...while being brought up in Crewe. Good luck with the project,,,looks wonderful. Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.