JeremyC Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I'm currently building a PDK NBR/LNER J36 kit in 1950s condition and need a drawing to confirm some details. Isinglass don't list this class and while PDH do, their accuracy has been questioned in other threads. If a J36 drawing has been published in one of the model railway magazines that would be ideal as I could possibly get that from my club's library. Thanks in advance Jeremy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I might have one, I'll have a look tomorrow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Kirk Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Hi, Would this be any use to you? My friend Pete Westwater drew this from the GA drawing. We were originally selling drawings etc. to try to raise funds for the NB group of the SRPS in the 60s the first target was an N15 which had been laid aside but was scrapped before we could raise enough funds. Some of our fund eventually went towards buying Maude. Drawing produced courtesy of P M Westwater. best wishes, Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyC Posted January 12, 2015 Author Share Posted January 12, 2015 Ian. Thank you for the drawing. I was needing the position of the weighbar shaft, the position of the boiler bands and the tender tool box size, none of which I had been able to work out from photos.Your drawing gives me the information required. Thank you again. Jeremy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
66C Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Hi Ian May I add my thanks for posting the drawing. I have a Majestic 7mm kit waiting in the queue for construction and the drawing will be a great help. Regards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scale7JB Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I too have a majestic kit I'm looking forward to getting into one day... It looks to be a really nice kit! JB. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 We were originally selling drawings etc. to try to raise funds... Ian, do you have any other J-loco drawings – I'm thinking in particular J15, J67/J69 and J68. I'll gladly donate something. Cheers, Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Ian, do you have any other J-loco drawings – I'm thinking in particular J15, J67/J69 and J68. I'll gladly donate something. All these are available from the GERS Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Kirk Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Hi, I am afraid that the drawings my friend Pete did were all NBR but as Bill Bedford says the GER society have a range of drawings. Pete's first series were "greyprints" produced by using a drawing on tracing paper as a "negative" and making a contact print on ordinary photographic paper. This was in the 1960s. As technology advanced he continued to produce drawings which became black line on white paper photocopies. He increased the range and re-drew many of them to O gauge. The drawings reflected our own modelling interests and tended to coincide with the building of a model. I do not know if he is still interested in selling any as he has been retired for a few years now. I will ask when I see him on Saturday - we are building a model railway in a BR Mk1 open second at Kirkland Yard. best wishes, Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 All these are available from the GERS Thanks Bill, downloaded a load of really good info for less than a £tenner! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Daddyman Posted January 28, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 28, 2017 Hi, Would this be any use to you? My friend Pete Westwater drew this from the GA drawing. We were originally selling drawings etc. to try to raise funds for the NB group of the SRPS in the 60s the first target was an N15 which had been laid aside but was scrapped before we could raise enough funds. Some of our fund eventually went towards buying Maude. Drawing produced courtesy of P M Westwater. best wishes, Ian Hello, I've been using this drawing to try to work on a PDK J36. However, I'm finding a number of discrepancies between the kit, the drawing and my measurements from Maude at Bo'ness. The boiler on the drawing is 1mm to 1.5mm longer than that on the kit. I've gone with the drawing, but then find that the footplate, valances and splashers are also short by the same distance. I steeled myself to make new valances and footplate, only to find that the cab on the drawing is way too wide, coming out at 27.5mm when the real thing scales at 25.3. This makes me question the length dimensions. However, the drawing provides the intermediate measurements of 6'0/7'6/8'0/4', which are surely reliable. So what's the verdict? The drawing is right on length but wrong on just the cab width, and the PDK is right on cab width and wrong on lengths? Grateful for any help. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Kirk Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 Hi, Pete was usually fairly reliable. The length dimensions will definitely be right as he was working from a copy of the GA drawing which was bought from British Railways. These dimentions would be lifted straight from the drawing (which was about 4 ft long)where they were marked in feet and inches . Measuring from any drawing is fraught with problems. I presume you measured the cab width from the drawing which I posted printed off in some way ( my knowledge of computers is minimal) I don't know if this will have come out exactly and I can't just at the moment find the original to check. If you measured the cab of Maude at Bo ness I would go with that as being definitely correct. THis plus the written dimensions for length will probably give you enough to go on. best wishes, Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Daddyman Posted January 28, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 28, 2017 Hi, Pete was usually fairly reliable. The length dimensions will definitely be right as he was working from a copy of the GA drawing which was bought from British Railways. These dimentions would be lifted straight from the drawing (which was about 4 ft long)where they were marked in feet and inches . Measuring from any drawing is fraught with problems. I presume you measured the cab width from the drawing which I posted printed off in some way ( my knowledge of computers is minimal) I don't know if this will have come out exactly and I can't just at the moment find the original to check. If you measured the cab of Maude at Bo ness I would go with that as being definitely correct. THis plus the written dimensions for length will probably give you enough to go on. best wishes, Ian Brilliant, thanks. I did print off the drawing, yes, but was careful to scale it right both vertically and horizontally. The front splasher width on the drawing tallies with Bo'ness, and I have the 8' section of the wheelbase as 32mm. I'll go with the drawing for length and my measurements for width. That means a new footplate, valances and front splasher, to go with the scratchbuilt boiler, smokebox and smokebox front - not much left of the kit! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 ....I'll go with the drawing for length and my measurements for width. That means a new footplate, valances and front splasher, to go with the scratchbuilt boiler, smokebox and smokebox front - not much left of the kit! Let me know what your eventual measurements are, as I have a J36 in the attic and, since it's a Crownline kit, it probably has the same errors as the PDK, as the artwork is by the same man: Paul Hill. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Daddyman Posted January 29, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 29, 2017 Let me know what your eventual measurements are, as I have a J36 in the attic and, since it's a Crownline kit, it probably has the same errors as the PDK, as the artwork is by the same man: Paul Hill. Oh, and did I mention it needs a whole new chassis as well? I got mine from: http://www.nbr4mm.co.uk/locochassis/9203.php It's made for the Gem kit - God knows why you'd make something of this quality for such a travesty - so is too short at 97mm, to allow for the thickness of whitemetal castings. Anyway these are the dimensions I have from Bo'ness. I didn't take the measurements in the first picture, and you see they don't quite tally with the ones I took from exactly the same loco These are mine: My plan is to split the PDK valance and add a segment to lengthen it; I'll then solder a length of L-shaped angle behind the valance, which will hold the three parts of the valance together. For the footplate, I'm going to replace it in 10 thou as the PDK one is in 15 thou - not much good for the desired fine edge. The shortness in the PDK footplate, by the way, comes ahead of the leading wheel centre. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Oh, and did I mention it needs a whole new chassis as well? I got mine from: http://www.nbr4mm.co.uk/locochassis/9203.php It's made for the Gem kit - God knows why you'd make something of this quality for such a travesty - so is too short at 97mm, ..... Oh goody, it looks like the coupling rods can be built properly jointed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shed Driver Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Hi all Just been checking some dimensions on my copy of the J36 GA drawing The width inside the cab sheets is 6' 0 1/2" . There is a mark/line on the drawing between the 6' and the 0 which could make the inches read as 10 1/2 ". The cab sheets are 3/16" thick. I believe that the smaller figure is correct as the width over the footplate is given as 7' 6". The width from the footplate edge to the cab side is definitely more than 4".(that size is not given on the drawing as it should be able to be calculated from the other dimensions) The length over the frames is 24' 9" with each bufferbeam 1.25" thick plus a bit for the overhang will give the length of the footplate. regards Norman Blackburn Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Daddyman Posted January 31, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 31, 2017 Hi all Just been checking some dimensions on my copy of the J36 GA drawing The width inside the cab sheets is 6' 0 1/2" . There is a mark/line on the drawing between the 6' and the 0 which could make the inches read as 10 1/2 ". The cab sheets are 3/16" thick. I believe that the smaller figure is correct as the width over the footplate is given as 7' 6". The width from the footplate edge to the cab side is definitely more than 4".(that size is not given on the drawing as it should be able to be calculated from the other dimensions) The length over the frames is 24' 9" with each bufferbeam 1.25" thick plus a bit for the overhang will give the length of the footplate. regards Norman Blackburn Many thanks. I think we now have useful information that will serve anyone in the position I've been in for a while, of not knowing which is right - the kit or the drawing. So the kit is almost right on the cab width. However, it seems it is right on length too, with 24'9" plus change scaling out nearer to the 100mm of the kit and not the 102mm I've just lengthened it to! This is different from the 25'6" of the drawing supplied by Mr Kirk, and buffer beam thickness and footplate overhang will not account for the extra 9 inches. Could you possibly give boiler dimensions? The length from the cab front to the smokebox front, and the length of the smokebox? Thanks in advance! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shed Driver Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 The boiler dimensions given on the drawings are not of any use to 4mm modelers. ie inside dimensions between boiler plates and firebox. The width of the smokebox wrapper, again not dimentioned, but guesstimating from the inside dimensions seems to be about 2' 8". There are no dimensions given from the front of the footplate to the smokebox front. Norman Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Daddyman Posted January 31, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 31, 2017 Thanks! That smokebox length tallies with the kit, and with my C15 kit too. Would you be able to scale off your drawing? It may be that you don't have the time or the inclination - perfectly understandable! - but just in case you don't know the method, here are some instructions which I hope won't insult your intelligence! 1. Take a known measurement on the loco - say the 8'0 wheelbase of the rear wheels. 2. Measure that distance in mm on the GA. 3. Divide the 4mm scale dimension (32mm) by the figure you get from the GA. 4. You can then multiply any horizontal measurement on the GA by that figure. 5. In short, 4mm dimension divided by actual GA dimension. It's important to be as accurate as possible on the measurement, and to go down a few decimal points when multiplying. For example, on my D20 GA I multiply by 0.315. As I said, I hope that's neither insulting nor cheeky to ask. I suspect humanity might thank you profusely if you could do this for them us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shed Driver Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 No problem with the sums I did a lot of that when designing my 7mm kits for a D29, D30 and D34 Front of cab to Front of Smokebox wrapper is:213.18" equals 71.06mm in 4mm scale. Smokebox wrapper is 31.89" which equals 10.63mm Front of footplate to smokebox front is 21.45" which equals 7.15mm Hope this helps Norman Blackburn Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Daddyman Posted February 1, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 1, 2017 It doesn't half help, yes, thank you - me and future generations passing through. Sorry, I don't know 7mm too well, so didn't know your name or kits. As feared, I ended up insulting your intelligence! But again, my formula might be useful to future passing humans.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
26power Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 See: http://www.nbmodels.co.uk/home.html It doesn't half help, yes, thank you - me and future generations passing through. Sorry, I don't know 7mm too well, so didn't know your name or kits. As feared, I ended up insulting your intelligence! But again, my formula might be useful to future passing humans.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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