92220

Thursday at 16:20

Thank you, Martin. So while not by any means complete, what I wrote wasn’t actually wrong? Which if so is both a miracle and a bonus!

iain

Tuesday at 19:46

On 30/04/2024 at 13:34, Buhar said:

Hi Iain

Do you put a joggle in the diverging rail?

Alan

Hi Alan,

I’m no expert here but I think what I do is called a “set” in the diverging stock rail. I’m fairly sure that I have heard it referred to as that by Martin Wynne and Norman Solomon. It’s a kink that allows the stock rail to diverge at an angle that exactly matches the taper of the planing on the blade. The arrow below points to where the set is, unhelpfully hidden by the gauge - but then you have to maintain the gauge right up to the set so it’s not a surprise.

Now where my expertise definitely gets shaky - I think that on the Great Western they did things differently as usual, and they used a joggle which I tentatively describe as a minute S bend to joggle the stock rail outwards leaving room for the blade to fit.

Iain

EDIT: Rereading that, the arrow is one timber too far to the left. The line denoting the set is on the Templot plan, one timber to the right so it matches where the tip of the blade fits.

April 29

Turn over and remove the template from half the turnout, but leave in place the paper on the slide chairs as they are less secure being only fixed by a dab of cyano.

Electrically bond the adjacent stock rails and closure rails/blades using 15A fuse wire and solder.

Then test for conductivity and isolation as appropriate. Finding you’ve not done this after laying, painting and ballasting is not worth it. How do I know?

Finally, remove the template from the slide chaired timbers using a steel rule to maintain gentle pressure as the tape is released.

Clean and ready to go:

Not saying this is a perfect way to do it, but what I’ve learned to do. I’m not too bad at it now, which is a shame because I don’t have any more to make at the moment……

Having done the Camden diamonds, I’m thinking of the approaches to Newcastle in 1959 in P4 for a bit of relaxation.

Iain

April 29

Tie bars:

I use smaller section copperclad here. I think it’s 3mm and 0.8mm thick. 1.1mm hole for 1mm steel rod for the tortoises. Dremel to ensure no shorts on the upper side, and I use a tiny twist of a 3mm drill bit to remove a sliver of copper from the underside, just in case.

Then the blades are soldered directly to the tie bar. I know……. I know that’s not great engineering practice and I’m prepared to repair if necessary.

20p is the correct clearance. Place a timber under the tie bar to ensure both stock rail and blade are flush to the tie bar, which stops solder seeping all the way through. Flux, in and out quickly to avoid melting slide chairs, and creating grooves which won’t allow smooth operation.

You can see the rounded and smoothed end of the blade here much better.

Then it’s just the final bits to do.

Iain

April 29

Next step is the blades. I used to use the Portsdown filing jig but I found I did a better and faster job using the clamp and the handle of the small chopping board protruding from the edge of the bench to give an angle from which to file. Probably wouldn’t be best the first time but after a couple of goes it’s definitely easier. Care taken to apply constant pressure and go slowly: I don’t think many can have built a few turnouts and not concertina-ed a blade at least once!

I use a series of files, firstly on both head and foot as far as the B taper length, then on the other side on the head only.

Hard to see from the photo but the leading edge is tapered, rounded and smoothed.

Then the blade is laid, using the Exactoscale locking plastic fishplates which align the rails with electrical isolation inbuilt.

Strictly speaking I think my blades are closure rails and point blades combined but if it’s good enough for Norman Solomon……

I tend to add a tiny bit of gauge widening on B6 and B7 just as the radii are getting down to less than 1000mm. I do this by using 16.5mm gauges through the rest of the curve. No need on the straight route.

Next the check rails. These are gauged using the 15.2mm check rail gauge from the common crossing as below:

Really hope none of the anti-OO-SF brigade see this…..

Iain

April 29

8 hours ago, 1BCamden said:

Hi Iain,

Fantastic work as always, and by far the most difficult section of the entire arrangement. So glad you went back over the double crossings on the north yard entry/exit roads, reliability will be key there, for both staying on the road and turnout operation. Templot is a great piece of software, hats off to Martin Wynne.

Best regards, plus a little inspiration from (as you would know) Douglas Doherty, all those years ago......

Thank you Stanley as always. I will try to recreate that scene (and a few others) in due course.

Best wishes,

Iain

April 28

The vee has two scraps of fret waste soldered to the underside to enable bonding to the wing rails. This has both electrical and stability benefits I’ve found. These pieces need to be sited between the timbers, hence the marking. Only the two to the right are soldered: the longer one to the left is simply a support to keep it level.

The vee is then laid gauged to the stock rail at the 16.2mm of OO-SF. Again certain chairs need trimming beforehand.

Then the curved stock rail is laid gauged off the vee. If I need to transition to plain track, this is effected on the last 2-3 timbers of the turnout. At the toe of the turnout it is also 16.5 which aids a little with the switch blades later.

The set in the curved stock rail should just be visible too.

At this point the slide chairs on the first stock rail are firmly glued to the rail and can be welded to the timbers too.

The next job is the first wing rail. This is bent by eye initially using pliers and test fit until correct. I’ve had a lot more success this way than making up complete common crossings away from the template. If the vee is gauged off the stock rail, and so is the wing rail, plus the flangeway gap is set at 1mm with the steel shim, it should work perfectly.

Once all is correct, the 2 chairs (I use 1 normal 3 bolt chair and 1 L1 which is probably an approximation) can be welded to the timbers using butanone, and the wing rail is soldered to the shim. This can be seen below as the necessary alignment of crossing nose and wing rail are checked with a steel rule:

Repeat the whole process with the second wing rail and trim the shim:

The rest of the curved stock rail is then laid including slide chairs as previously.

All the while, I am checking with the gauges and test running the bogie through.

Now it’s time for the blades. But that can wait until I’ve slept.

Iain

April 28

I also finished what I hope will be the final turnout for Camden Shed Mk2, and thought it might be worth documenting. In case I forget how to do it. It’s a basic B6 on the coal road approach to the turntable.

Lay the template and add a thin strip of double sided tape:

I tend to annotate the template with timber lengths and the number of chairs of each type (I know it’s on the templot template already but just makes it a bit more noticeable. Also I may reduce the prescribed number of slide chairs by one).

Add the timbers (I pre cut these in batches of different lengths in bulk).

I then lay the straight stock rail, or rather the one that must follow the curvature. On the 4 mainlines, it was crucial to get a smooth continuation of the very shallow curve through all the formations. I find this a lot easier if I lay the main stock rail first and build the rest off that. I know some lay the vee first, and I tried that but never quite got on with it.

Chairs opposite the check rail, and close to the slide chairs, are partly trimmed to fit in preparation.

I also add the slide chairs at this point, glued to the web and underside of the stock rail with a tiny bead of cyano, and left to dry while I…….

……make the vee.

Rail pieces filed in the jig and then soldered together using the jig to ensure alignment.

This one hasn’t been dressed down with fine file and 1200 grit paper yet.

To be continued as I’ve run out of megabytes

Iain

April 28

I’ve managed to finish the formation completely. Final few steps were to grind down excess shim and solder with the Dremel, then add the cosmetic half chairs as in part at least seen here:

It has now been cleaned and laid on the layout in preparation for testing with locos.

To do that I need to wire it.

And to do that I need a control panel:

It needs a little tidying and obviously a whole load of wiring, switches for turnouts and sections, but hopefully it will work out well.

Iain

April 11

The rest of it becomes hopefully a case of repetition. Assuming we started in the right place!

Loosely placed, but beginning to look like it should.

Iain

April 11

OK here we go. Take 2.

I redid the timbering and printed out a new set of Templot sheets:

I had a question about the timbering around the knuckle on the crossings. I knew that unsupported rails as a principle were obviously a no-no. But I also had an idea that knuckles were also always supported. So should I add timbering like this?

But that didn’t look possible, so I went with:

Copperclad at key locations, especially through the crossings where there would be short rail sections and checkrailing, enabled me to maintain gauge and clearances in these crucial areas.

Copperclad tinned where needed.

I tend to annotate plans to help with speed of timbering and adding chairs to often lengthy stock rails.

The copperclad had a strip of card glued to the underside to bring it to the same thickness as the ply timbers.

Build beginning:

Small pieces of brass strip were soldered to those copperclad timbers where rails would need to be soldered without brass chairs.

For all of the 16 small vees necessary through the checkrailed crossings, I printed out extra copies of the plans so I could construct those separately. The rail pieces were hand filed and soldered to fret waste before cleaning up, which hopefully left me with vees of exactly the correct angles. None of them were identical, with slight curvature through all three tracks in the formation.

Hoping all this makes sense - more to come…..

Iain

March 5

Thank you dggar, that’s very helpful as always. I have the signalling diagrams for the southern end of the WCML but I hadn’t looked at them in detail for a while. What you’ve written confirms access to the north end of the shed from the down lines via the through siding. I can replicate those moves now. What I hadn’t thought of was the access to Camden Goods. But since that is represented by a comparatively minute facsimile on my model, I suspect a loco lift is the best option.

I have been thinking about signalling too but that is further down the priority list at the moment.

It’s fascinating how convoluted the railway evolved to be, both north of Camden Shed and also to the south beyond the steepest part of the bank.

Iain

March 4

A job that needed to be done was to add the off-scene trailing turnout on the down fast to allow access to the shed area from the NW, via the single line next to the Pembroke Castle pub.

i assume that this move was necessary for a banking engine that had to give assistance for longer than usual beyond the top of Camden Bank. I imagine that this was more likely to be the up train engine banking ecs which was under the charge of a less powerful loco, often a Std 4mt or a 2-6-4 tank of various types. But all that could be wrong.

Down fast is at the bottom of this photo:

A Peco large radius right hand code 75 got the LNER4479 treatment to enable it to match the very gentle curve here, and also it needed to fit with the code 75 to code 100 change.

After the Mr Nicholas jiggery pokery to enable the gentle curve, it was prepped as usual (remove the tiny wires connecting closure rail to common crossing, then electrically bond the stock rails to closure rails on each side. Remove the spring, lay it, wire it, and then fit and wire the tortoise). I chose the tortoise option as that will be the motor for all the scenic area, so the ease of wiring it was clear.

I also started hacking the board about to insert the inspection pits all through the shed:

I got further than the photo shows but didn’t take another.

I had spent a little time thinking about the way to build these. Peco inspection pits were used on mk1 Camden, heavily modified. Briefly, the chairs were removed, carefully filed flat, and the holes filled. Then they were marked out, and bullhead rail laid on L1 bridge chairs. These pits have all been recycled into Camden mk2, but are all used up with the ash pits and inspection pits outside the shed. To buy and modify as many Peco pits as I need here would add significantly to the cost (I need 1300 chairs for the shed alone). So I’ll just scratchbuild the pits from plastic.

Also, I almost certainly will not bother with the wheel drop in the servicing shop which is roads 6&7 from the mainlines.

Iain

March 3

Thanks Lez. I am pretty close to finishing the trackwork now. Only 4 simple turnouts plus this formation to go, and I have plenty of ply timbering left. I think my simple turnouts are ok as built with ply and plastic chairs now. I only used copperclad through the diamonds for the stability of soldering those very short pieces of rail needed to maintain electrical isolation through the crossings.

Once I realised the issue with thickness I thought I’d better use as much copperclad as I could through the turnouts too, and plug the gaps later. Adding the n/s shim under the rail significantly complicates the process too. I am using pieces slightly too large and then using the Dremel to remove the excess leaving space for chairs to be added. If - or more likely when - I restart, I think I will use brass chairs on copperclad selectively through the turnouts, with ply timbers and plastic chairs between these. Only through the checkrailed diamonds and where the rail pieces are so small will I need to use copperclad and shim. I think, at least.

I also noticed a problem with timbering through the second diamond. I only have one timber between v and k crossings each side, but I need 2 to give a sensible look to the rail break. Probably the timbering which interleaves from the first diamond and the two adjacent turnouts should be revisited too. That seems now to be not as logical as it felt when I did the Templot plan.

Iain

March 2

Thanks both. I have been away at a conference the past two days and mulling things over in the evenings, I’d almost certainly decided to restart. It’s actually very smooth-running through the bits of the formation that have 2 running rails

On the expense front, it has got a lot more expensive to build your own track. Copperclad is like bitcoin, and both rail and chairs mount up.

I just calculated that I need around 1250-1300 L1 bridge chairs for the pits inside the shed. Are there that many in existence?

Iain

March 1

Interestingly, or perhaps not very interestingly at all …..

1mm thick new C&L copperclad is 0.95mm

Old C&L (1.06 nominally) 1.20mm

Thin sleeper flexi 0.74mm

Thick sleeper flexi 1.45mm

I didn’t measure a thick ply timber but these are supposed to be 1.5mm

Iain (mine of useless info)

February 28

I’m now having a go at the 3 turnout and 2 diamond formation by the turntable. It’s the entrance to the shed area in reality so it has to work effectively.

I decided to build it in copperclad, in contrast to the rest of the s&c on the layout which is all ply timbers and plastic chairs. The reasoning was that, to maintain insulation gaps and to isolate each v and k effectively, there are a lot of small pieces of rail through the diamonds, which are fully checkrailed. When I built this for Camden Shed Mk1, some of those pieces were only secured by a small number of chairs, leaving open the greater possibility of movement and consequent unreliability. So being able to solder each piece ought to make it easier to ensure that it works.

I also wanted to lay the rail on top of some nickel silver shim, so that cosmetic chairs could be added once fully built.

I bought what I thought was enough 4mm timbering from C&L. But it wasn’t quite. Mistake number 1. No matter - the timbers omitted are not pivotal and can be replaced by ply ones.

Now, the copperclad was 1mm which I thought would go with 1mm sleeper C&L track. Mistake number 2. It’s considerably less than 1mm and more suitably matched to old thin sleeper C&L flexi.

I’ve continued and I am building it gradually, but I’m half thinking that I’m heading down a pointless path and I should just start again with thicker copperclad, matched to the thicker flexible track and ply sleepers. I’ve just got hold of some older 4mm copperclad timbering which is nominally 1.06 mm, and it is appreciably thicker than the new batch I have been using, and matches the rest of the layout. In that lot also came some brass 3 bolt chairs, so I might discard this effort and start again.

There is I, hope, some method to the madness of laying one rail all the way through the 2 diamonds to begin with. It was about creating a smooth gentle curve through both diamonds. I was planning to gauge everything off this before removing it and then laying the individual pieces for that side again, gauged from the opposite rail. Anyway, the jury remains out.

Iain

February 17

On 16/02/2024 at 10:11, LNER4479 said:

Salivating ... 🤤🤪

High praise….. 🤪

😂

Seriously, thank you as always for the advice, support and encouragement, Graham. Much appreciated. I hope to bring some more Camden locos to assist with the roster on Shap at some of your future shows, if that would be appropriate, and in time I hope that we can reciprocate. I think that the scene as it is will represent 1950ish to 1963 well enough, and with a couple of replacement signs on goods shed, signal boxes and mpd entrance, the model will be able to backdate as far as 1937. Your 6221 with the Coronation Scot past the shed, anyone?

You do make progress a little faster than I do, though!

11 hours ago, gz3xzf said:

Iain

Your project is phenomenal, the scale is mind-blowing, I'm in awe of your skill and ability.
Keep up the good work I look forward to the updates to see how it is going. 😁👍

Thank you, Bryan. That’s too kind. I’m not especially skilful, honestly. I just learned a great deal from a lot of generous, excellent, truly skilful and knowledgeable people on here and elsewhere, and I’ve been prepared to have a go.

Hopefully, I will have some more updates to continue the story soon.

Best wishes,

Iain

February 15

South end of the shed yard coming on well:

It all runs well with a light rigid wagon which ought to find most imperfections. But there is a fair bit of wiring and testing with locos to do for everything to be signed off. I’ve also, through incompetence, missed out the two inspection pits on the two roads immediately adjacent to the ash pits, so these need to be done.

Incidentally, that light rigid wagon is a part scratchbuilt and part Parkside spares ex LMS lowfit, which will eventually add a bit of variety to the wagon fleet serving the goods yard. I’ll get around to finishing it and post some photos some time.

Iain

February 14

Hi Tim,

I will see about reuploading some of the photos from the past on my thread. I also found a couple more of my turntable under construction:

Templot is a huge boon, yes. Although its capabilities are so far beyond mine. I have managed to insert the crosssings, shift timbers and extend the check rails so I am about to embark on building that section.

Iain

February 13

Thanks for connecting me to this thread, Graham. And for such a kind intro!

Tim (I’ll make a wild assumption) - delighted to find this thread and happy to let you have any info that I have gleaned. To say that I am interested in Camden 1960 might be an understatement, but to say I have intimate knowledge of the turntable is in turn an overstatement. Most of what I have is printed material, with some on CD, and I can’t remember when I last had a computer with a CD or DVD drive.

I took the slightly easier (!) way out by heavily modifying a Peco OO turntable. The long promised Metalsmiths Cowans and Sheldon 70’ turntable didn’t look like materialising 10 years ago and it’s even less likely now. The Peco one is a touch long of course and has some different details but replacing all the handrails and building the platform with the vacuum apparatus on it seemed to give a passable imitation. Being brutally honest, in comparison to yours, that is all it is: a passable imitation cobbled together from a few photos.

I don’t have many photos of the construction, but a few are below.

best wishes,

Iain

January 18

I’ve not been completely idle.

Haven’t completely decided on its identity yet but a few of the standard 4s were regularly passing the shed especially on ecs as far as I can see. They all seemed to be the earlier cab type with the original double handrail design and BR2 tender.

A few more bits of detailing and tidying to do before it can be cleaned and painted.

Iain

January 18

I hope everyone is well.

A few updates from Camden:

All the mainlines have been painted following the addition of all the 3rd and 4th rail (which took a while), and testing.

Progressing a little with building the track for the shed area. There are two formations in particular that need to fit precisely together. One is at the very eastern corner of the shed itself where there are 4 turnouts linked.

And yes, I have run out of rail before completing these. Awaiting C&L shipment now.

The second is the iconic Camden formation by the turntable, which I haven’t started yet but which I have to get right or the entire layout won’t work. Me being me, I planned it a couple of years ago with simple pieces in Templot to ensure the alignment of track with the turntable itself, but didn’t get around to adding all the crossings, extra check rails and timbering.

I was planning to build this section using copperclad with a shim under the rail to add cosmetic chairs subsequently, on the basis that the complexity of adding all those check rails while still maintaining electrical isolations would be better achieved that way. The rest of the s&c on the layout is ply timbers and plastic chairs as you can see.

I could simply build around this template (or a better printed version than this rough one for planning purposes) by working it out myself or I could try to get Templot to do that work for me. Any suggestions welcome.

I also built a DJH BR Standard 4. For no very obvious reason. But this one and one or two others will hopefully have a fair bit to do on stopping services and ecs in particular.

There is a little detailing and tidying up to do before it can be finally cleaned and painted once the weather is warmer.

A few other things to come in another post.

Iain

December 2, 2023

On 29/11/2023 at 09:21, Phil Parker said:

From Warley

Interesting reversing rod? I assume it’s been damaged and they aren’t actually going to be like this?

Iain

November 30, 2023

On 17/11/2023 at 16:21, Tony Wright said:

.

And, of course, EVENING STAR herself - from Bachmann

Good evening Tony,

Catching up on the thread from a couple of weeks ago. This photo brought back wonderful memories of a day with you at LB, all too long ago. I would love to revisit again one day, if and when it’s ok for you, and I have a few more things to bring along now.

The Bachmann 92220 in your photo, which breezed through with 15 mainly kit-built carriages behind it, is pretty extensively modified:

Extra weight for improved adhesion and haulage

Loco-tender coupling as per your usual arrangement to reduce the gap

Loco lifting rings on front frames

Correct pattern front coupling with extra link and bracket

Vacuum pipe

Remove steamheating pipe base from buffer beam

GWR pattern lamp irons

Buffer shank steps on loco and tender

Remove NEM pocket from front bogie and fabricate spring and damper

Gibson front bogie wheels

Gibson smokebox door dart

New handrails with correct pillars

Comet front steps

Cab doors (they're actually tender doors on the model and in real life....)

Tender buffer beam details

Tender coupling "goalpost"

Nameplate and commemorative plate

New injector pipework under fireman's side of cab

Driver's side under cab pipework with Comet fittings and copper wire

Water pipes from tender to injectors

Remove steam heating fitting and pipe from side of firebox (only fitted in preservation)

Detail copper pipes and chimney cap as copper not black or brass

return crank adjustment

Is it better than/as good as the new Hornby one? Almost certainly not, in many respects. Most of what I did is covered by the exquisite detailing of the new one. Although the under smokebox step needs to go unless you’re modelling 92220 in the last 18 months of active service. There is also the bonus of there being at least some modelling in mine. Another consideration is that while I am confident I can make a better looking, running and hauling Black 5 , Scot, Patriot, Jubilee or Coronation by building Comet frames than by using the rtr chassis, I definitely couldn’t guarantee making a similarly improved 9F. One reason is the complexity of 5 axles (that’s just something I haven’t yet done ) but another is the wheels available. One day I might try. It’s not as if I have much more than Rule 1 to justify a 9F at Camden.

Anyway, best wishes to you, Mo, and all WW readers and contributors.

Iain

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