92220

I think it’s 38:1 Mike so that sounds like it might not be low enough, I don’t know.  I’m pretty sure it’s not exactly the same motor as yours though, so I will see how it goes when I make it up.  I can replace it with something else, and use a different box with lower gearing for this one if I have to.
 

Iain

This larger motor fitted a Comet GB3 fine with a 2mm worm, but I had to mark, drill and open out new mounting holes. Normal M2 screws (don’t come with the motor) work perfectly.  I guess you could solder the gearbox to the motor if you knew what you were doing - Mike Edge I think this is what you do?  The motor casing has a collar around the shaft of the motor that exactly matches and centres the motor shaft so it aligns perfectly with the gear wheel in the Comet box.  So even I couldn’t get it wrong.  It runs smoothly and quietly in this form.  I’ll take a photo tomorrow and add it here. 
 

It is tight on top though.  The size of the motor means it doesn’t quite sit parallel to the top of the frames in OO.  EM or P4 I think would be a doddle.  The very thick DJH frames might be a problem.  I could remove a little from the Comet frames here, as it would be hidden anyway, but I don’t think I will unless I have to.  A different, more adaptable gearbox, perhaps GB5 with an extender or a High Level one, would give more angles to play with.  It will fit nicely in a Coronation boiler/firebox, but I would imagine it’s too big for most locos.  
 

I will build this up and see how it goes.  The smaller one will certainly have more permutations for use in different locos but hopefully this will work for the biggest. 
 

Iain

I can’t help myself……

Iain

My effort from a few years ago, thanks to John’s inspiration:

Bachmann LMS bogies, white metal LMS buffers I think from Comet/Wizard, clipped at the top, some spare laser glaze, renumbered and weathered.  I’ve got a few (3-4) more to do and will probably do much the same but replace the brake wheel and respray as well.

Iain

Duly arrived.  The bigger one has a 2mm shaft, quite short too, and is 15x20x32 mm, so somewhat larger than the ad stated.  Anyway, it should still fit in a Coronation and we will see how it goes.  The smaller one is 12x15x27 mm with a 1.5 mm shaft.  I bought 5 of each for the princely sum of half a curry.  No real harm done if they aren’t any good.  

Iain

59 minutes ago, Michael Edge said:

Probably, they seem reliable so far, I've used quite a few now. They are extremely powerful, fairly quiet and don't take much current.

Thanks for the recommendation, Mike.

I have speculatively purchased a few to see which ones work best.

Still have a small stockpile of Mashima 1628 and a few 1626 too, but I’ve never used a Portescap or the Comet Canon.  Yet. 
 

Iain

8 hours ago, Brocp said:

Any updates on your own projects Iain?

I’ve not built any more locos lately - the last ones were 44875 and 46251 a couple of months ago.  However, I can see a few on the horizon:

46229 (DJH)

46238 (Hornby on Comet)

46250 (ditto)

46256 (another one……)

2 Princesses (haven’t worked out which locos yet, but I have a Mike Edge etch, a Proscale kit, a new Hornby bodyshell and tender, a set of Comet frames and sundry castings etc)

2 more Jinties, one Comet and one High Level under Bachmann bodies 

2 Jubilees - one will be a LFB variant although I haven’t sorted which locos yet

2 Rebuilt Patriots (Hornby on Comet)

At least 2 more Rebuilt Scots (46120 and 46127 for a start - Hornby on Comet)

An original Patriot (Bachmann on Comet)

At least another Black 5…..

I guess that says something!

But a fair bit of progress on the layout itself.  I’m just trying to get it all put together so that it doesn’t look a shambles in photos.  I will post something on the layout thread soon.  I have all 4 mainlines running well which is a huge milestone.  There is a bit more testing to do because I haven’t connected up the Down Empty Carriage line to the scissors on the down fast, but the mainlines themselves are smooth through the long formations.

To know that I can run long heavy  trains smoothly and reliably past the shed area means the whole concept can work.  
 

I’ve done almost all of the scenic diorama-with-a-bit-of-movement that is the goods yard approaches.  Inlaid track by the goods shed needs some more work and the checkrails added.  Then I will have all the setts to do……..

Hope all well with you.

Iain

5 hours ago, MacDuff999 said:

Perhaps more relevant to this thread, could anyone who has built a DJH - perhaps specifically Ivatt version - 'Coronation', tell me where part 18 should go. It is described as tender top back support, and shown on diagram page 2, just forward of the tender back plate. The 'instructions' give no idea where exactly it should go, and merely say 'as shown'. As shown where? Should it be laminated to the tender back (although it is a W/M part), to support that and the extremity of the heavy top section, or soldered a little further forward, just behind the slots for the rear tender wheels, to give perhaps more balanced support to the W/M top casting? Advise please. 

 

Ian.  

I will go and check my things maybe tomorrow but is it a flat rectangular white metal casting, with a large rectangular hole in the middle?

If so I am pretty sure I soldered it to the inside of the tender back.  The steps protrude through the etched back of the tender and into the big hole, and can be soldered from the inside.  
 

One thing I would say about the DJH Coronation tender is it weighs about as much as I do. So I hope you have a big motor in the loco!

Iain

10 hours ago, BMacdermott said:

Hello Iain

 

Lovely work!

 

Just a note of caution that you might not have noticed...

 

Watch you don't snag clothing on the bits of track that run off the boards. If that happens, it could ruin a lot of work.

 

Brian

Thanks Brian.  No problem, none of those tracks are fixed yet, and they will be cut 6-7 mm short of the edge on the appropriate angle, so that the backscene board will fit neatly. 
 

Iain

Down slow is wired and tested.  I will complete the same with the down fast and then a celebratory video will be released!  I might need to get a few bits of stock back from Shap temporarily to make up a few more trains  (delighted as ever to continue and repeat the loan into the future, Graham).

Getting somewhere close with the goods yard approaches too:

This section (including the bit of the North London line through Primrose Hill station) is laid on some very thin cork sheet.  It will be painted in situ, then lifted, pva applied, the track relaid using the paint shadow as a guide, and ash ballast applied.  Then the excess ash ballast is vacuumed off. It is leftover thin sleeper C&L from the old layout, so it works well to ballast it that way.  I don’t need to be quite so paranoid about the running as I am on the rest of it, mainlines in particular.  There, making sure it runs smoothly and reliably before all the scenic work is crucial.  The goods yard will be largely a static scenic backdrop, with just a small amount of possible movement at really slow speed of goods stock.  The trackwork is simple enough with some B8s on a very shallow curve.  
The track immediately outside the goods shed is inlaid with setts.  I have to sort some wagon turntables (no they won’t be working ones!) and probably I should try to pick Jason T’s brains to see whether I can copy what he did with The Mill.  
 

Iain

Yes for sure use the Comet deflectors.  

The DJH ones are undersized and therefore the handrail pillars are too low on the boiler and smokebox.  The handholds are also better on the Comet ones.  They are a bit fiddly the first couple of sets you do, but they get easier.  I used Gibson pillars.

Iain

Ian, Terry,

yes I forgot the type 3 and 4 tender cut out differences.  Good point.
If I build any of the three DJH Coronations I have in the drawer, I will also use Comet deflectors and reposition the boiler handrail because the DJH versions are too small and the handrail too low.  It really changes the face of the loco.
 

I understand and applaud both the fun and the challenge of making something into something else, as you can see from my own thread!  So best of luck with it Ian and do show us how you get on.  

Iain

 

Hi Ian,

I admire your willingness to have a go à this, although I also think that altering the Ivatt Coronation to a Stanier version is a quite challenging task, to be honest.  
The Comet Stanier cab etch is for an 8F cab I think, so the wrong size for a Coronation.  The way the DJH cab folds up means that joining different or additional sides even of the correct size isn’t easy.  
The trailing truck and rear frames are completely different as you know, but I’m not sure how easily you can convert one to the other.  You could use a Comet spare etch for the rear frame extensions and a separate Comet LMS Pacific trailing truck, but quite a bit of head scratching may be needed.  
Not sure what plans you have for the tender but the part-welded tank was used on (I think?) 46253-5 as well as 46256/7.  For the latter two, the roller bearing axleboxes on the DJH tender frames are not separate, they are cast in one piece with the frames, so altering them will be a massive job.  You could remove them completely and replace with Comet plain axleboxes 
The DJH cab roof is the wrong size and shape (although I don’t think it’s any more or less wrong for each of the Ivatt and Stanier versions). 
Anyway, just a ramble through my thoughts.  Intrigued to see how you go about this.

best wishes,

Iain

Hi Ian,

I’ve not tried to rechassis a Wrenn or HD tender, but the Comet ones are pretty accurate and go together well.  The only thing I would say is that using the correct 4’3” wheels will mean you have to remove some material from the baseplate, and the brake shoes need filing back a fair bit.  Now whether the Comet tender might then draw closer attention to the less detailed loco body, I’m not sure.

Matching the Comet frames to a Wrenn or HD loco body, I’m not sure about.  I am fairly sure they were designed for the Hornby body.  But I would suggest to make the adjustments to the frames before you start assembling, or at least before you get very far.

Iain

10 hours ago, Corbs said:

IIRC the proposed Crosti/Caprotti 5MT would have had a boiler tapered on the underside with a level top. Presumably to allow space for the preheater underneath.

 

92220 of this parish built a model of one

 

Yes, that is exactly how I read it, Corbs.

Iain

Thank you Lez, very kind.  

I should have added for anyone who didn’t know and wants to, that this is all OO-SF transitioning to 16.5mm on the final 3 timbers to join the C&L plain track at the end of each formation.  With thanks to Martin Wynne for explaining so clearly why OO-SF works so well, and for the brilliance of Templot to plan it out.  

I’m dedicating at least this section of the layout to my friend Gordon Stolliday, who set me on my way with both Templot and trackwork construction, and to whom a huge gathering said an emotional farewell on Wednesday.  Rest in peace my friend.  

Iain

I’m fairly sure they are on the chassis spacers, Ian.  The cylindrical screw-in spacers have a nut soldered to them and you fix the bogie and trailing truck through the spacer into the soldered nut with a bolt.  The instructions say to fix the bolt through the spacer and then screw on a nut from underneath but as per TW I do the opposite.  I always use a Comet bogie mounting rather than the swinging arm provided.  There are a few photos in this thread somewhere I think.  
 

Motor and gearbox for a Coronation - I have used Mashima 1628 and 1626 with Comet GB3.  I still have a bit of a stockpile of Mashimas. I don’t know enough to say that this is a better combo than anything else but it works well enough. 

Iain

On 24/06/2021 at 17:58, CRHT1837 said:

Iain

I have only discovered the forum this week and been a member for a few hours, but I have scanned through the 10 years or so that it has been active. The technical excellence  and knowledge on display is truly impressive and I doubt I have anything to contribute. Having said that, I have helped with the extension of the Copenhagen Fields model railway into part of the King's Cross goods depot, and my name now appears on the model with a 'business partner' as one of the traders in potatoes! 

But I do hope to draw on the expertise of the forum.  I am very engaged with Camden's railway heritage, and particularly Camden Goods Yard,  through Camden Railway Heritage Trust, which I founded in January 2007. As well as preserving and restoring this heritage, we are trying to create greater awareness of its significance and open it up to the public.

I believe your model of the passenger locomotive shed is to be viewed from the front. Camden Council has plans to improve Dumpton Place and this creates an opportunity to reveal the heritage. The wall has very recently had the render removed (the photo predates this).   The removal of the render has not revealed the infill to the former opening, but perhaps an expert builder/bricklayer would have the forensic skills to examine the wall and report on what is original and what has been replaced (for example, the coping stones are not all from the same date). Then we can make a feature in the wall of the original entrance to the locomotive shed. There are granite steps at the end of Dumpton Place that we believe led to the doorway, implying that the doorway was raised a little above street level. We would like to see the steps restored to some resemblance of originality, as these may be the last vestiges of the MPD.

I would be very interested in any photographs of the doorway. I assume you are intending to model the footbridge and will extend this to the opening in the wall at the end of Dumpton Place.

There are many other projects involving the goods yard that I would like to share with the forum, if interested, not least the creation of a model of the winding engines and rope haulage between Camden and Euston.

 

Peter

On 26/06/2021 at 12:12, 92220 said:

Thank you Peter.

I only have one view of the gate in Dumpton Place, from this G. Freeman Allen book:

 

 

I have taken a snap of it here:

 

 

not sure whether I am allowed to, and will remove it if I ought to.

 

Iain

A little research trip: now that my son lives a few minutes from Camden this sort of trip becomes a lot more straightforward.
 

I snapped a good number of useful photos, principally of architectural details etc.  I won’t flood the thread with all of them, but a couple bear posting I think.

This one is of the Dumpton Place wall after the render has been removed, referred to by Peter above.

I think it possibly shows that the doorway was once where the Pilates ad is hanging now.  I’m not certain but this part of the wall looks as if it was perhaps completely rebuilt rather than patched up or filled in.  Anyway, I will try to copy the photo in the post above when I finally get round to it.

More currently, there was a discussion about wall mounted derricks a few posts ago and I have searched extensively and in vain for information.  Then what do I find on the E wall of the Roundhouse?

I am leaning towards assuming that those on the Goods Shed wall were at least similar, and it gives me a plausible way to construct them.  
 

Any views welcome.

A somewhat more momentous update to follow soon.

Iain

3 hours ago, D.Platt said:

Morning All

Looking at the Black 5 and the aws , where was the battery box on them , and the Jubilees  ?

Anybody know .

Dennis

I can’t remember Dennis, sorry.

I know the large and small air tanks are on each side of the footplate, but I don’t recall adding a battery box to any of my Black Fives

Iain

1 hour ago, Michael Edge said:

Agreed, I had to modify the DJH brakes a lot but they are about the worst designed brakes I've seen in a kit and really difficult to replace with something better.

I’m glad it wasn’t just me who thought that!

I ended up effectively making new mountings using wire and drilled holes as I would have done had it been a Comet chassis.

1 hour ago, MikeParkin65 said:

I know this is anathema to you kit builders but the Hornby baseplate for the RTR model has of course got plastic brake blocks and is available as a spare. You'd need 2 though as Hornby omit the leading brakes to accommodate the overscale pony wheels they use  

I can see that might be useful although how the two baseplates could be joined and attached while still enabling pickups to be fitted may be beyond my skills!

More likely to be helpful if building 46220- 46225 (or was it only up to 46224 I can’t remember….)  which had single brake shoes.  The rest had twin shoes.  The Hornby shoes are single only, even on the new model I think. 

1 hour ago, MacDuff999 said:

Gibson do some brakes with plastic blocks I think, so there is less risk of shorts. Don't know if they might make a difference? I will assess the possibilities when I get the wheels and try them on the chassis. 

I’m not sure whether the Gibson items are suitable, sorry.

I would recommend (from a baseline of far lower experience and competence than many contributors on this thread) that fashioning something out of metal and therefore maintaining single medium construction, is preferable. 
 

Iain

6 hours ago, MacDuff999 said:

Thanks for your prompt replies gents. I will order the correct scale wheels then Mike. No news on the 'Princess' etch at the moment I take it. 

 

Ian. 

27mm 6’9” wheels will fit,  but then the brake hangers won’t.  You will need to make some adjustments perhaps but not necessarily like I did:

(Scroll down the attached post)
 

Iain