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Post-Christmas update Hope that everyone had a lovely couple of days. I spent a couple of hours on Wednesday and then another couple yesterday evening on two projects. Firstly, the wagon lift for the coaling tower. This had to be built to complete and wire all the final pieces of track - I had left a gap but it made no sense to do that as this can be built separately to the tower itself. Once painted I can at least test and fettle all the track before proceeding. I used the drawings in LMS Engine Sheds vol 1, to give me an impression of what it might have looked like. Detailed photos are the on the ground..... Under construction: Completed except for the pulley wheels etc: And with an unfinished Parkside kit on the rails: Secondly, a more complicated build: Any ideas? These will give more of a clue: Please visit http://locodriver.co.uk/Railway_Encyclopedia/Part150/Part03/index.htmlto see a series of excellent photos of a Royal Scot being serviced at Camden. The 3rd or 4th photo down the page is a very good photo of the back of the Pembroke pub. Here is another from Stephen Toogood's Flickr stream: https://www.flickr.com/photos/steventoogood53/6791579201/in/photostream/lightbox/ And from eBay: The front of the pub: Iain

Hi Brian No, the jinty is as it was, but I am going to take Gordon up on his kind offer to let me rebuild it using his avonside jig. At some point! I have to dismantle it first though, and I've not got around to that. Iain

Thanks everyone for their kind words and encouragement. I didn't think I would lose motivation to do anything at all - it was more about what I would do. I've genuinely missed the creative experience and fun from designing, planning and building. If I'd decided not to continue with this iteration of Camden Shed as a layout, then I'd have carried on with locos and stock ready for the time when I did get the layout the way I wanted it. Thanks as always for your encouragement and pieces of info, Stanley. Hopefully I will have more interesting stuff to show over the coming months. Thanks Jason. You did look a bit perplexed at Warley. I thought it was concern at my ability to keep the debris from that pasty from showering all over the goods yard on Leicester South. Would have been hard to explain the puff pastry on the automated capstan shunting...... Yes, the house design is exciting. We are hoping to get the plot by the summer, but there are a lot of potential disasters before then. My (much) better half is very happy with me designing and using a huge purpose-built loft space. I am very lucky! Will hope to see you when you're down at Bracknell. Let me know nearer the time and you're welcome to come over. Likewise a very happy first married Christmas to you! Thanks Jol, hope all is well. Will you be at Bracknell this year as well? Thanks Jeff, hope I can maintain the interest and atmosphere. Hi Jock, You're most welcome. Do ask anything you like and I'll try to help. And thanks for any likes too! Thanks again everyone, and a Happy Christmas to you all. Iain

Thanks again for your help Gordon. I do really like what you've done on ET - excellent planning, craftsmanship and attention to detail as always. I do hope that 2015 will see a full circuit in place and trains running. I predict that the beautiful turnouts that you showed me today, and that Barry slip, wherever it goes, will never cause a single derailment. Unless you get an old Lima coach out and bounce the flanges off the timbers........ All the best, Iain

Thank you Gordon, Jol and Graham. Three people who have given me no end of help, wisdom and inspiration throughout, and for which I shall always be grateful. I have done some re-evaluation and decided as follows........ I'm going to carry on with this version, even if it does get either altered or part-replaced when we move. I was never at the point of giving in completely, but I might have diverted my attention to building stock for a while - in fact I have done barely anything else for a few months now. There really aren't too many problems with the turnouts. Some of these issues were caused by my 'Tony Wright' coupling mechanisms being too close and causing buffer lock. The mechanism is good but my hamfisted measurements were not. Some were caused by using a loco without checking the b2b. Some were caused by the new Gibson-wheeled suburbans. The wheels are great, but the old Airfix/Dapol bogies are very flimsy and light. I think they will ride a lot better with a bit more weight. Other issues are due to there being some imperfections in levels of the railhead at joins, either of boards or rails. I think - perhaps with help(!) - that I can sort these out. I spent 2 hours under the boards this afternoon finishing the wiring of the final 4 tortoises. Which doesn't look like the behaviour of someone ready to give up! I also bought some storage drawers similar to Mike's on Dent, which will improve things too. Thanks again everyone, Iain

Thanks Paul - that's very kind. It's OO. S&C are to OO-SF, and plain track is C&L to 16.5mm Iain

Thanks again Stanley - wonderful photo. It looks indeed as if it is the remains of a stop of some sort? Almost however I build it, I can cover things up with that messy pile of ballast/ash/clinker. To be honest, I am having a bit of a struggle here at the moment. It seems that a lot of people go through ups and downs of motivation, and while I still enjoy building things in the shed, I haven't found it easy to get down to progressing the layout itself. There have been external factors - work has been unbelievably busy, and what spare time I have had has been used more for golf and fitness. With some positive impact too - I have managed to get back down from scratch to +1 handicap, and I am now close to being better than I was before the shoulder injury in late 2009. We have just broken up for the Christmas break, and I have had half a day to contemplate and clear up in the shed. It was like an episode of Harry Potter in there with a spider population into 7 figures and their associated debris. But it did give me an opportunity to think carefully. Bottom line - I think I now know that this will not be the final iteration of Camden Shed, and so my motivation to complete it is lower. Why? 1. We are hoping to build a house in the next year or so. It will have a dedicated loft room of decent proportions, and I know what is going in there...... 2. If I have a space that is not exactly 20'x12', I will definitely build a new layout. Even if the space is exactly that, I'm not sure how well this will dismantle and move, so I might build a new one anyway. I am quite set upon Camden Shed as a location for all the reasons stated earlier. 3. If I do build a new layout I would do several things differently to the way I've done them here. I might even build it with future exhibition in mind. For example, the baseboards would be lighter but more rigid. 4. Although I tested each turnout as I built it and when installed, getting them all to work universally well with a variety of stock is proving to be a challenge. They all still work well when tested with a 9F and 12 close-coupled mk1s. But I made the mistake of thinking that this would be the acid test with longest wheelbase loco and close coupling of coaches - in fact that seems to be the most sure-footed loco and rake I have! So I either have a lot of turnouts and track joins to fettle, and on a layout that might not reach adulthood, or I accept the learning from my mistakes and move on. So I've now got a choice - either keep going with this in the knowledge that work done is at least in part going to be discarded but a development of my learning nonetheless, or pick jobs to do that will be transferable. That means locos, rolling stock and buildings that can be removable and reused if necessary. The compressed version of the shed building for example, is a big undertaking and if/when I build another version of Camden Shed, it would probably be less compressed, and therefore the shed itself not reusable. I could complete the ash plant, the coaler and the water tower, plus the rough stores and the Pembroke pub, as these are separate and to scale. Not totally confused now, but always happy to be guided by wiser people than me. Iain

Thank you very much Chris, that's very useful indeed. I'll definitely leave out the lone WR long suburban on that basis. I probably don't need any more oddities on the layout anyway! The prospect of a few unlined maroon subs is good - lining with that many ventilators, hinges, door stops and handles takes me ages. I have 3 unlined crimson mk1s - I fear these will need to be in lined maroon though. I'd settled upon 7 non-corridors as a good length to model for the two outer suburban sets that I will do, given a bit more browsing. So your info not only confirms this, but adds some very helpful details. Rod Steele's book shows the odd mixed train of corridor and non-corridor ex-LMS stock, which seem to be stopping trains to places like Northampton. Again, few noticeable details though. Thanks again, Iain

Thanks Mark, I'm hoping to get a couple more things done in the next week or two. Iain

Hi Mike, I've been quietly following, admiring and clicking various likes and other buttons for some time but this is my first post on Dent. Many congratulations on what you've achieved so far, which is stunning. In your excellent storage system (post 1630), please could you direct me to where you got the drawer system, and the wooden divided trays? I'm very impressed and I think a similar system would be perfect for Camden Shed. Best wishes, many thanks and keep up the excellent work! Iain

Thanks Chris and Metr0, very useful indeed. Chris - if you do come across anything in Railway Observer, and can direct me to any info, I'd be very grateful. Interested that there is a 64'6" mk1 sub lurking somewhere. My embryonic skills of recognition tell me that for this one: https://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/4395407827/in/set-72157621174728515 It goes something like: Mk1 BS 2 x ex LMS pd3 (thirds?) 2 x ex LMS pd2 2 x can't see that well but ex LMS? The Bletchley picture with 41222 I guess may not have come from or got to Euston but looks like mk1 brake third, pd3 third or is that a compo(?), and a pd3 BTK. Both the 2-6-4 tanks in these links are still on early crests too. Realistically, I think for the moment I will try to put together an up and a down local of 7-8 coaches each. Thanks again for the help and interest. Iain

Thanks John - I will continue and it will be fairly heavily weathered in the end. I was thinking of depicting an example that had not been repainted for some time, but I don't have many colour photos of mundane coaching and non-passenger stock, so advice on here is much appreciated. Thanks Metr0land. I've seen a few examples like that on other lines but was searching for a few suburban or stopping services on the old LNWR line. I think most services that went as far as Watford were DC electric so I suppose the services I am after would be to Bletchley or somewhere just a bit further out than Watford. Much of the research I've done so far seems to point to no real pattern at all to the suburban formations - they just used whatever they had in whatever formation. Now, that Coronation Scot RFO is not in fact an RFO. Sorry to everyone though - I must apologise that I misled you by not measuring it, and since it is actually 57', it looks as if it might in fact be a TO to D1904/1981. A handful of these had the same pressure ventilation cover for the Coronation Scot. So I hope I will now put the right roof fittings on it..... Iain

Thank you. The 68' D1938 Restaurant Car M250M looks like this now: I've just put an order together for Comet/Wizard that includes an etched 68' underframe. The donor one warped slightly where I fitted plastic to cover the cutouts in the solebars. I'll build that and then fit these bogies, frost the windows in the kitchen end and it will be ready to be weathered. One of the old Airfix conversions close-up, completed except for weathering: I'm quite pleased with these and I think they will look better still with some dirt. I'm still very unsure about this one: I painted it with red primer and 3 coats of Vauxhall Carmine Red or whatever the shade that is recommended for plain crimson on an old Period I BG like this. It looks like it's sponsored by Rickie Fowler. Or Tango. Shall I just paint it plain maroon and disguise it a bit with weathering? Picked up 3 of these for a few pounds: One of the older Bachmann Pd I CKs - this is supposed to be a D1694 I think. Can't be certain how accurate it is, although it looks roughly plausible apart from the glazing and lining. The final one of these was withdrawn in Nov 61 so I guess they were on their last legs in the period I'm modelling. I think these will pass muster as fillers in a passing train. Maybe when they are detailed and weathered a bit at least. The underframe, apart from the vacuum cylinder, and bogies are half reasonable. Anyone have any views on: The colour of the BG? Any of the formations I have put together above? Ventilators for the D1850 shallow window BCK? Plus another question - can suburban trains include both ex LMS non corridor and mk1 non-corridor stock? As ever, advice and criticism are both very gratefully received. Thanks, Iain

Wow! Really spectacular gathering there. Thought for a minute that you'd started your next WCML project early! I can think of a few duties for each of those cresting the bank past 1B.... Iain

A half completed tender for 44741 - part welded plain axleboxes. Comet top to toe except for the Gibson wheels: Iain

Some building: A period III Stanier TK D1899 built from Comet sides on a Hornby donor. The donor shell has no glazing, pipes, grab rails or connections, while the chassis is missing part of both vacuum cylinder levers, and the bogies. However, since it came in a job lot which included decent China Black 5 and Britannia bodies, and a Maunsell chassis among other tat, for only 4 quid, I think it was worth modifying. Sides fit ok: Aperture cut in the sides, and hinges and handles added to sides: Bachmann LMS bogies added plus Comet buffers, vacuum cylinder levers and a bit of 0.45 ns wire, then placed on the layout with a complete Hornby BTK. Needs connections, filler pipes, grab rails, step boards, couplings (my usual plagiarism of TW items) interior, painting, glazing, lining numbering and varnishing, and then it might be ready for the weathering shop..... Also an early Stanier pd III shallow window 60' BCK to D1850 which will be born from the shell of a Dapol CK kit. I'm not certain which ventilators to use - these are off the pd II dining car conversion and are similar to the type in Jenkinson and Essery for when it was built, but I'm struggling to find a photo of one of these D1850 coaches which clearly shows whether they had been replaced by later type ventilators. I'm suspecting they might have been. The roof has been deribbed, holes filled, marked and redrilled according to the Comet plans. And loosely clipped together on the layout as it stands so far: Iain

Thanks Phil and Brian. My copy of Jenkinson and Essery is in the shed and I would certainly need to consult it to find any sort of an answer! I will aim to convert to a standard roof layout and use it from there. In the PTM book that I consulted, there are a few instances I've quoted above where an ex LMS RF or FO was marshalled next to the RK. I haven't found an obvious example of an RFO of that type yet. Thanks again, much appreciated. Iain

Ahhh, thank you Taz. That makes a lot of sense now. Hoping that this D1902 65' RFO was still in front line use in 1960..... Iain

Well, I've not done very much of late, as explained in my main Camden Shed layout thread. I did spend an hour or two back in the summer looking at some carriage formations from two sources - the Passenger Train Marshalling book for the LMR (Western lines) for summer 1960 and the Clive S Carter book All in all, I think I can get a few representative expresses sorted out. The PTM is very useful for someone who knows more than me because I think you could even work out individual diagram nos. from the formation and seating capacity. It does show which are mk1 vehicles, which are class A stock, and which are fitted with gangway adaptors in order to be able to couple to the mk1 vehicle next to them in the train. This is what I think I've worked out so far...... All mk1 unless stated 7.45am Euston to Liverpool Lime Street 2 SK ex LMS Mondays only BSK CK FK ex LMS BSK SK ex LMS BSK ex LMS 2 CK SO RK ex LMS FO ex LMS FO ex LMS BSK BG 8.00 am Euston to Holyhead BG ex LMS SK ex LMS SK ex LMS BSK SK FO ex LMS RKB SO SO ex LMS 5 SK BSK ex LMS 8.30 Euston to Manchester Victoria BSK ex LMS CK CK SO RK ex LMS FO ex LMS FO ex LMS BSK CK FK BSK SK ex LMS SK ex LMS BG 10 am Euston to Glasgow (SX) SK ex LMS SK ex LMS CK ex LMS BSK ex LMS BSK ex LMS CK SK SO RK ex LMS FO FK BSK BG (Is that the Royal Scot? Sorry if that is the most moronic question....) 10 am Euston to Glasgow (SO) SK BSK CK SK BSK 3SK RK FO FK BFK BG 1.05 pm Euston to Glasgow - was this the Caledonian? BSK 3 SO RK ex LMS FO BFK I can do this one without compression easily enough! 4.27pm Euston to Wolverhampton 2 SO ex LMS Mon/Sat only SO ex LMS SK ex LMS SK BSK SO SO RF ex LMS FK FK BSK 6.30pm Euston to Inverness RS ex LMS FO ex LMS BSK SK CK 2SLF ex LMS 2SLSTP SLF ex LMS CK BSK ex LMS BG ex LMS BG ex LMS Trying to get a bit more info on some local and stopping services, it seems from pictures as if there is a mix of ex LMS non-gangwayed stock, plus the odd corridor vehicle, some of which were old period II stock living out their final years, plus some BR mk1 non-corridor stock. Hoping that some knowledgeable souls will know more. I've also been doing a bit of building in the odd half an hour or so here and there. And some buying. Buying first: Picked up these two complete Comet coaches on eBay: Firstly a nicely built kitchen car. A couple of things to add such as filler pipes, but overall very nice. And this, a 60ft CK, also nicely built with an interior too: But the roof looks like this: Anyone have any idea why this might be like this? Or shall I just strip it down, then add ventilators and pipes? Iain

Thank you to Stanley and Richard, both of whom have provided endless inspiration for me! On p16 of this thread, post 389, I added a pic - a screen grab from a 1938 film "Sentinels of Safety" - which is the only even slightly clear outside view of part of the NE shed wall that I've found. It seems to show that at least the end part of that wall had no windows. Big buttress (?) arrangements too. In the BRILL feature there was a pic of the shed being demolished and the walls are really not very thin. I'm not worried about the SW wall - there are so many shots, almost none of which I can share, that show that wall clearly. Of course, I haven't got room to fit it in anyway, but that is another story: a compressed version of the shed will happen in time. Iain

March 99 I think, but the drawing is flawed at least in terms of chimney position so beware..... I did recently find a better one, but can't recall where at the minute. Iain

No problem Brian! Good advice from Jol - as always! I have used superglue to hold in liquid lead to the 9F mods I did. It will now pull 20 mk1s. My 46256 is based on a Hornby China City of Carlisle, which is why it's so light footed. I'm sure that a decent white metal and brass kit would be more capable of shifting a decent load just built as standard, but I may be wrong. I've found that my kit built coaches actually run more freely than the rtr examples, due to the pinpoint bearings I suspect. So while they may be heavier, they have less rolling resistance and less inertia due to the lower friction. I think..... A future project will probably be to sink pinpoint bearings into all the Bachmann mk1 bogie frames and replacing the wheels with short-axle Gibsons, which run much more freely in my experience. Now off to Wycrail briefly! Iain

I'm fairly sure it was after that, but will try to confirm. Iain

Hi Phil, Yes, that's spot on. It was originally open, but boxed in well before I am modelling. I've done most of the ash plant and the boxing, but it's not finished yet. I'm just debating whether to bother with the hoist mech inside that boxing. Beginning to err towards not! Iain

Hi Jim, Thanks for that picture and well done on the shed and roof! That whole building needs to be planned and thought through for me. It spans the baseboard joint, and needs to be removable therefore. I'm yet not completely clear how I can do this without it looking as it it has simply been placed on top of the ash ballast, which will look poor..... Hi Stanley, Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest that I was even contemplating having either coaler or ash plant operational! I did for a short moment think that having locos coming on shed with little coal and being fully coaled before idling in the yard would be a nice touch. In reality, a series of removable coal inserts for tenders may be the best way to achieve this for still photos only. It would certainly make sense for all locos on down trains to be very full, while all locos on up trains should be low on coal. Same removable load principle perhaps applies to open wagons for ash removal? What I really meant was to model the surrounds of the ash plant at a time when it had failed, so piles of ash everywhere, plus men shovelling into wagons etc But thanks for the suggestions on how to make it operate, which confirm to me that I'm not capable in the time I have available! Iain