craneman

Yes, chalk and cheese spring to mind. The Hornby model is a radically compromised representation of a 75-ton Cowans Sheldon design introduced in 1960 and in service (in steam powered form as loosely modelled) until 1976 or so. The Bachmann model is a highly accurate representation of a 45-ton Ransomes & Rapier design introduced in 1940 and in service in steam powered form (steam only - none was ever converted) until 1989. One is a model, the other a toy! Close. It was Wilfrid S Stokes, a Director of Ransomes & Rapier Ltd, who invented both. Stokes had been New Works Engineer for the GWR before moving to Ransomes & Rapier in 1896. He was, incidentally, knighted for his invention of the Stokes mortar in 1914, this becoming the standard British gun of the First World War. In a word - no. Laira didn't get a breakdown crane unitl 1963 when it received ex-GWR 18, which stayed until 1965. In 1972 this was replaced by ex-GWR 19 which stayed until 1987, in latter years carrying yellow livery (the only R&R 45-tonner to do so). The Bachmann model is structurally accurate for both of these. No 18 is currently extant unrestored at Carnforth, and No 19 is preserved at the Flour Mill. Newton Abbot had variously at around this time GWR 8, a Cowans Sheldon 15 ton crane (like the D&S Models kit) and/or GWR 9, a Cowans Sheldon 35 ton crane (ex-Caerphilly). Fromt he mid-'50s to the mid-'60s it had ex-GWR No 3, a 36-ton Ransomes & Rapier crane. None of these resemble the Bachmann model. In 1965 the ex-SR crane DS1580 moved to Newton Abbot upon closure of Exmouth Junction, staying at Newton Abbot until 1972 when it went to Laira. This crane, though very similar to the Bachmann model, differs in that it, in common with the MoS 45-tonners, had the hydraulic loading mechanism on the relieving bogies (not the earlier manual system). 1580 also uniquely had BFB wheels. DS1580 was the only 45-ton R&R crane to operate on the mainline which had hydraulic RBs and it seems unlikely that Bachmann will retool the relieving bogie to produce a model of a single unique crane. DS1580 is preserved and operating on the Mid-Hants railway. That being said, from 1940 onwards it is entirely plausible that a GW 45-ton crane would have been deployed anywhere needed, and in 1947 the nearest (to NA or Plymouth) was No 19 at Bristol to 1948 then at Swindon CWA, or No 18 at Canton. It is highly likely that one or other or both of these would have been seen at Laira if needed on the far West country. Certainly no-body could tell you it didn't happen. It is worth remembering that one of the reasons that this design was produced (and a requirement of the pre-war Railway Technical Committee for Air Raid Precautions, which drove the design) was that it conformed to the British Composite Loading Gauge and had both dimensions and axle loadings which allowed the cranes to travel anywhere on the UK mainline railways, including LPTB lines (and the Hastings line). They were (and are) physically smaller and lighted on the axles than the massive GWR 36-tonners which spawned them, and the 36-tonners were allowed over all mainline GWR routes in the West Country, including over the Tamar Bridge. Problem or opportunity? Let's think about liveries for a moment. The model, taken with the tooling options visible in the Warley photos, allows an accurate model to be produced of any of eight cranes, namely the first order of six for "British Railways", of which four went to the GWR and two to the Southern, plus the two from the second order for the Ministry of Supply, both of which went to the LNER to replace two conscripted cranes, (The model from what has been seen so far does not allow any of the seven subsequent MoS/WD cranes or the Southern's DS1580 to be modelled, since these all had significantly different relieving bogies). These 8 cranes between them, over their working lives and allocations, would have been seen in GWR grey, SR grey, LNER grey, GWR black, SR black, LNER black, BR(S) red, BR(E) red, BR(M) red, and BR(W) yellow. Assuming that the tooling options allow for the difference evolutionary changes that took place, that means that there is a huge variety of historically accurate models which Bachmann could, if they chose, produce. The livery details are also complex, due largely to the fact that cranes were generally painted locally and seldom were two alike. Furthermore there are differences such as the fact that the Western refused to follow the 1953 "Ad-Hoc Committee" directive to repaint cranes in morale-boosting red, and steadfastly left theirs black, not only that, but their pre-grouping individuality meant that no black BR(W) crane ever received a BR totem of any kind. The SR and LNER cranes carried differend totem at various times, adding further variations. There are probably 30 or more different, historically accurate, combinations which could be produced, which is surely useful if you want a good ROI on your tooling. Unlikely, given the relieving bogie issue mentioned above. It will probably be S1560 or S1561. Not quite. There were 16 cranes built essentially to this design. The first order, for six cranes, was placed in 1939 on the authority of and paid for by the Goverrnment as a result of the Railway Technical Committee's recommendations for ensuring that the railways could survive the effects of air raids. The RTC recommended that 24 cranes should be ordered from two suppliers, in the event 12 cranes were authorised, six each from Ransomes & Rapier and Cowans Sheldon. All were to be 45-ton capacity , to conform to the British Composite Loacding Gauge, and to have a 15-ton axle loading to allow almost total route availability. The only cranes of relevance to this discussion are the R&R six. These were delivered in 1939/40, and four were supplied to the GWR (allegedly against the GWR's will since it felt it already had adequate craneage) and two to the SR. In 1942 the Ministry of Supply ordered two further cranes from R&R to essentially the same design which were delivered to the LNER as direct replacements for two Cowans Sheldon cranes which had been requisitioned, converted to oil-firing, and shipped to the Middle East. The two LNER cranes differed from the earlier six in monor ways, the most conspicuous beign that the steam chests had moved outside the frame plates of the crab and the vales were operated by rocking levers (the first six has the steam chests inside the crab). Some time later the MoS ordered seven further cranes for the military, and finally in 1945 the SR ordered one further crane. All 8 of these had outside steam chests as per the LNER pair, but also had hydraulic loading systems on the relieving bogies instead of the earlier manual system. The relieving bogies are significantly different as a result. The final SR crane also has Bulleid-Firth-Brown cast wheelsets on the crane and relieving bogies (but not the jib runner). The tooling seen in the Warley photos makes it clear that the Bachmann model can represent any of the first eight cranes, namely: - GWR 16 - GWR 17 - GWR 18 - GWR 19 - S1560S - S1561S - 941601 - 951516 Incidentally of these, all except GWR 16 (cut up at Swindon in 1986) and S1560S (cut up ex-Tyseley in April 2010) still exist. There were significant differences between the jib runners for these cranes, and right from the start the SR runners were different to the GWR runners (these differences are visible in the Warely photos). As time went by various evolutionary changes took place to all the cranes which resulted in them becoming increasingly unique. For example, the chimney lift gear fitted to the SR cranes (but never fitted to the GW cranes) was removed, chimneys became short not long, the toolboxes fitted to the jib runners were altered, one of the LNE cranes was fitted with and exhaust draughting arrangement to the boiler, turbogenerators were moved, and a whole raft of other details changed. The allocations of these cranes is quite complex and poorly documented, however in essence the GWR cranes stayed on the Western and no crane on the Western ever received the red livery. One ex-GW crane (at Laira, as mentioned above) received yellow livery, the only R&R 45-tonner to do so. Only one escaped from the Western, No 17, which was transferred to the Midland region from Stafford road in 1963 and received red livery (the only ex-GW crane to do so). It spent its Midland days at Oxley, Tyseley, Saltley, Willesden, Longsight, and finally Crewe. It is now at the GCR. None of the GW cranes ever received BR totems whilst in black livery. The two SR cranes remained on the Southern, and carried variously grey, black, and red liveries. The survivor is now at the Swanage Railway. Of the two LNER cranes one (951516) was transferred (along with Gorton shed) to the LMR in 1960, the other remained with the NE Region to the end. These carried grey, black, lined black, and red liveries. 951516 is preserved but not operational on the Bluebell, 941601 is similarly preserved but not currently operational on the NYMR. The jib runners for all of these were built by RY Pickering of Wishaw, but they too differed between orders and railways. In conclusion it seems to me that this is a great looking model of a prototype which has the potential to accommodate just about every type and region of modeller.

Those do indeed look very, very impressive! Can't wait for mine.

The book I was thinking of is H C Webster's "British Railway Rolling Stock", published in the immediate post-war years (and pre-nationalisation, hence the singular "Railway" in the title). It is however the same photo as that which Peter reproduced in Vol 2 as you note, and is in fact a Ransomes & Rapier works photo, a copy of which I have in my own photo collection. To my shame/surprise/dismay I had forgotten both the latter! The preserved examples of the first batch of 45-tonners can be found at Swanage (SR 1561S, operational), GCR (GWR 17, operational), Carnforth (GWR 18, OOU, unrestored, apparently for sale), Flour Mill (GWR 19, essentially operational but I believe undergoing overhaul), Of the six that were built, two have been scrapped, specifically GWR 16 broken up at Swindon in 1986, and SR 1560S broken up at Halesowen (ex-Tyseley) in April 2010. The next batch built by R&R were for the MoS and included the two supplied to the LNER as replacements for two conscripted Cowans Sheldon cranes. Both of these two are preserved, LNER 951516 at the Bluebell and is presently undegoing cosmetic renovation, and LNER 941601 is preserved at the NYMR, currently out of use. One of the MoS military cranes, WD214, is preserved OOU at Toddington on the G&WR. These cranes (including the LNER pair) differed from the first batch of six principally in having the valve chests outside the crab sides and the valves operated by rocking levers (the earlier ones had the valve chests inside the crab sides). The two LNER cranes had RBs identical to the first batch, but the preserved MoS crane has the later type with hydraulic loading gear. There were other evolutionary detail differences (eg with boilers etc) during the construction of these cranes. The final crane built to this basic design, and in fact the last crane built by R&R for a British railway, was the SR's 1580S of 1944. This had outside steam chests, hydraulic loading RBs, and in additional (and uniquely) Bulleid Firth Brown cast steel wheels. This crane is preserved and operational on the Mid-Hants Railway. So at present seven of the nine of these built for British railways have survived into preservation. Roger Cooke The Breakdown Crane Association www.bdca.org.uk

I realise that this is far too late to be much use, but (unfortunately) I have only just stumbled across this thread and become aware of this very impressive imminent model! The RBs have a spherical bearing at the centre of the bogie, as well as the vertical pivot at the crane headstock. The cantilever beam is secured to the headstock by two vertical pins (not a series of fingers as shown on your early drawings - just the top and bottom ones) in such a way as it can swing from side to side but is rigid vertically. The other end of the girder has effectively a semispherical cup in its lower surface, which rests on a sperical bearing mounted on the bogie on a vertical shaft. To transfer the necessary proportion of the crane's weight to the bogie, the spherical bearing is raised by turning a nut at the upper end of the vertical shaft using a handwheel and chain-driven gear train on the side of the RB. This has the effect of jacking up the crane using the bogie and transfers the necessary weight from the crane axles to the bogie axles. We have a series of photos on the Breakdown Crane Association website which show one of the RBs of the Nene Valley's R&R crane (the oldest preserved crane in the UK to have RBs) being overhauled. These RBs are different to the later 45-tonners' but only in detail, the principle of operation is the same. You may find the series of photos starting here http://www.bdca.org.uk/gallery/index.php/Ransomes-and-Rapier/ADRR95207/ADRR95207-Renovation/29-Tail-end-bogie-lifted-off-wheelsets of interest; one photo in particular showns clearly the top of the vertical shaft and the substantial screw thread which carried the weight of the crane. Apropos the jib runners, it may be of passing interest to note that the first six of these at least (those for the 4 GW and 2 SR cranes of 1939) were identical as built and supplied (all matched the GW pattern) and the SR cut some of the tool boxes off quite soon after receipt. There is one photo I know of showing the SR cranes with the un-modified jib runner, in a contemporary book. If anyone wants more detailed information about the boilers fitted to these crane, this thread http://www.bdca.org.uk/forumtwo/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=94 covering the overhaul of the boiler from one of the SR pair has many photos. The 2 SR, 4 GWR, and 2 LNER cranes were all essentially identical as built. All had wheels, axles, axleboxes, buffers, and boiler fittings supplied by the GWR, Hopwood pattern boilers supplied by Cochran of Annan, and the jib runners were built by R Y Pickering of Wishaw (the two LNER cranes had outside valve chests). The subsequent very similar cranes for the MoS and SR had many detail differences, including hydraulic loading systems for the RBs, outside valve chests, and no longer used GWR running gear and boiler fittings. The final SR crane uniquely ran on BFB cast steel wheels supplied by the SR. The model looks outstanding and I look forward very much to seeing it in the flesh! Roger Cooke The Breakdown Crane Association www.bdca.org.uk

The photo in "Hydraulics in the West" is unquestionably GWR No 8, a Cowans Sheldon standard 15-ton crane of 1901, and one of three such identical cranes the GWR owned. There is some confusion with the details of the three GW 15-tonners, largely originating from an error in Brownlie's "Railway Steam Cranes" which asserts that the original No 1 15-ton crane was renumbered to No 7 when the 36-ton Stothert & Pitt crane was delivered in 1909 and assumed the number 1. In fact the No 1 15-tonner became No 8, so from 1911 the GW cranes were:- No 1 - 36-ton Stothert & Pitt crane of 1909 (w/n unknown) No 2 - 36-ton Ransomes & Rapier crane of 1908 (w/n B4411) No 3 - 36-ton Ransomes & Rapier crane of 1911 (w/n B6113) No 4 - 20-ton Cowans Sheldon crane of 1903 (w/n 2614T) No 5 - 20-ton Cowans Sheldon crane of 1903 (w/n 2615T) No 6 - 15-ton Cowans Sheldon crane of 1901 (w/n 2449T) No 7 - 15-ton Cowans Sheldon crane of 1900 (w/n 2406T) No 8 - 15-ton Cowans Sheldon crane of 1901 (w/n 2448T) formerly numbered 1 These are in fact the only steam breakdown cranes purchased by the GWR. Several other cranes were taken into GW stock upon the grouping, and the GWR was allocated four 45-ton Ransomes & Rapier cranes on Government account in 1939, but it never ordered any further breakdown cranes itself after 1911. Another perfectly reasonable conclusion from looking at the order numbers, running numbers, and dates in the list above would be that No 7 in the list started life as No 1, No 8 as No 2, and No 6 as No 3, but there is no evidence at all that this is the case! Returning to the photo in "Hydraulics in the West", the crane can only be No 8. The full allocation details for this crane have not come to light, but it is known that it was at NA by 1936 and still there in 1956 (there is some evidence to suggest that it went there in 1910 and stayed to 1960). It was transferred to the CCE at Swindon in 1968. It is known that it was replaced at NA by No 3 (from Landore), but again the date of this change is not known. The photo in this book is actually of significance to us crane nuts simply for the reason that it suggests that No 8 was still at NA, and hence presumably No 3 was not, as late as 1963. It is already known that in 1965 No 3 was itself transferred from NA to Neath, so it seems that its tenure at NA was a short one. The range of cranes allocated to NA over the years is itself confusing, and again a shortage of accurate records makes it difficult to be certain about details and dates. From evidence currently available it would appear that the following cranes were allocated there:- GWR No 8 (15-ton Cowans Sheldon, 1901) from c.1910 to c.1963 GWR No 3 (36-ton Ransomes & Rapier, 1911) from c.1963 to c.1965 GWR No 9 (35-tons Cowans Sheldon, 1911, ex-Rhymney Rly) from 1936 to c.1948 BR(W) ADW151 (45-tons Ransomes & Rapier, 1944, ex-BR(S) 1580S) from 1965 to 1972. Hope this is of interest. Roger Cooke The Breakdown Crane Association. (Edited to correct spelling errors!)

I think you're being a little unfair to the very small team of volunteers who look after this crane - it has had *far* more done to it than simply a repaint. In the two years or so it has been in the works, one relieving bogie has been completely rebuilt, all the axleboxes have been refurbished, a multitude of other repairs of varying magnitude have been carried out, plus of course a bare-metal repaint of virtually the whole crane. The work ahs also been carried out to a very high standard, and is a credit to those who have done it. To keep this in perspective as well, at least the NVR's crane team is actively preserving this crane. It is sobering to realise that in the time that MP3 has been in the works, no fewer than three breakdown cranes of this size or larger have been sent from heritage railway - preservation - sites to the scrapman, that is very nearly 10% of the preserved breakdown cranes in the country gone in the space of a year. I should at this point state for the record that I have not been involved with the overhaul of MP3 and I am not an NVR volunteer. If you are interested in breakdown cranes, why not visit the Breakdown Crane Association website, www.bdca.org.uk? Roger