Respite

I think the building you mention may be the control room for a wagon tippler. Many collieries got 'foreign coal' i.e. coal from other pits for washing or blending with their own. Some like Marine in the Ebbw Vale loaded coal into wagons when the washer couldn't cope with output. The loaded wagons would then provide the loco with work hauling them back up to the washer again for uploading. However the building might also be a weighbridge as at Lady Victoria colliery see https://www.railscot.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=6109 I would have thought however that the weighbridge would have been further away from the washer than this. The best way to answer the query is to look at old maps of the area in the 1960s. If there is a conveyor marked as running from the structure it will be a tipper control building.

There is a good article on the whole Huncoat system in Railway Bylines Volume 12 p372 in 2006. I went to the power station several times but the colliery section had closed by the time of my first visit. The Padiham power station was a completely separate entity way down the valley whereas Huncoat was on the hillside next to the Preston to Burnley line. Besides the power station there was Huncoat Colliery with Manning Wardle, Grant Ritchie and Hawthorn Leslie locos and two old Barclays at the two brickworks nearby. Down in the valley there was also Altham Coke Works which the colliery supplied a loco to and which had its own shed. Add into this coal coming in by barge and coal coming across the valley from Calder Colliery by an aerial flight and you had quite a setup.

6am start for day shift 2pm start fro back shift 10pm start for night shift This was standard for all NCB collieries. Trains would run before those times of course for miners going to work.

If the shipment didn't contain J50s one wonders what it did contain. It seems very strange Hornby didn't update the due date sooner on their website, one can only assume they were surprised also by the non arrival.

Absolutely, I took one look at the Hornby photos and decided straightaway it had to be the late crest version. I was delighted to hear that the wait isn't as long as expected. Normally I go for early crest locos as a preference.. I am out to get mine tomorrow, then it's a van train behind it for me.

The goods train event this weekend coming now has an 08 diesel on the trains not steam.

The Embsay & Bolton Abbey Steam Railway are running goods trains when you can ride on a brakevan for a £5 supplement. The brakevan is ex NCB Harton. The next advertised day for this is May 30th. See their website for details I travelled on the van on May 4th with NCB No.47 ex Backworth pulling the train, great!

I think there are more than this Les, Cathryn the HC side tank at Wirksworth is being restored with its stoker equipment. Several of the locos that went to Embsay had them in including Monckton No.1 HE3788 and HE3168. HE3788 had its stoker working at one of the Embsay galas in the 1980s. The stoker unit at Statfold is from Coal Products No.6 HE3883 now running as Lord Phil at Peak Rail. No.4 the one being produced by DJModels /Hattons sheared the leading LHS driving wheel off whilst at Backworth.

That depends which overhaul you are going on, either 1967 or 1974. When it was last overhauled in 1974 it was returned in a lot lighter colour .

There have been three articles about the Gin Pit System in past copies of the Industrial Railway Record which are available to order online from the Industrial Railway Society website. Cyril Golding died some years ago, his collection of photographs is now with the IRS. There have also been one or two photographs of the Nasmyth locos in past editions of Railway Bylines. The Manning Wardle loco from the Walkden system was swapped with one of the Nasmyths so that they could be tested and comparisons made. However the verdict was that the Manning was still a poor machine! It had a very small smokebox and coal had to be shovelled from the bunker which had a shovelling plate at floor level up to a high firehole, so it wasn't liked for that either. The nature of the work at Gin Pit required outgoing coal to be hauled up a steep gradient to Jacksons (exchange) sidings at Tyldesley. The job was a kille,r with an increasingly steep gradient and a sharp left hand bend at the top where many a trip stalled. The Nasmyths were a great success, however they were gradually superseded by austerity locos which although they couldn't match the haulage abilities of the 0-8-Ts they were faster.

The article in Backtrack is in Volume 20 Number 5 May 2006 issue with a Brighton Terrier on the front. The article is about the railway rather than the accident to Charles but it does have a photo of Charles shortly after arrival.

That's a great close up of Charles, Phil. The motion has been cleaned and the smokebox door repainted. They seem to have done a remarkably good job of grafting on the running board from Weasel. I attach a scan from a photo that was on ebay showing Weasel on 31st May 1968 with the two grab handles you mention and the missing front footsteps. It's strange how they had Weasel running around without these and then when they transfered the running board to Charles managed to replace them. The attached photo of Weasel also shows the impact damage to the LHS Bunker. It seems from what you say the damage to Revenge's cab must have been repaired some other way or a replacement cab came from elsewhere if Weasel's cab was used on Charles. The squarish patch on the bunker in your photo of Charles is curious, I wondered if it was something to do with removing the stoker but shouldn't have been necessary. Weasel incidentally was stopped at Whitehaven because the steam pressure faded when it was working up the bank. The boiler itself steamed well enough and it was thought that there were probably problems with the slide valves or cylinders being worn. I would think the wagons for and aft of Charles in the photo are loaded wagons in front and empties from the Howgill incline behind. I also attach a very poor quality photo that I was given by one of the traffic foremen on the system taken during recovery operations. I would think this could well be the day after the accident and it shows a mobile crane being used to light wagons back onto the track plus the unfortunate Charles. Notice that even before this accident the engine has had its extended bunker removed and the side of a Hudson side tipping wagon used to repair the bunker back after the engine was run into by a train being propelled up the bank. This accident also distorted the cab roof. There is an article in the March 2012 Bylines on Ladysmith Washer at Whitehaven. This has a photograph of Charles intact on 7th June 1969. but by 21st July 1969 it had the bunker back repaired with the side of a wagon and the patch shown in Phil's photo.

It would be helpful to see the photo, is it online? Repulse did receive accident damage, whilst it was on the Walkden system. It had a regular driver Tommy Seddon who was very conscientious but even so it suffered damage to it's coal bunker which was basically stoved in at the back. Tommy was so embarased he asked Cyril Allman another driver to take it on Shed knowing the leg pulling he would get. When Repulse went to Whitehaven it got most of its damage on its first shift. A shunter was acting as driver and he managed to bend the front RHS footsteps knock off the injector overflow pipe and bend the brake way beam at the front possibly all in the same incident. I suspect the photo you have seen shows Charles after it ranaway from Ladysmith Washer with 9 loaded wagons in summer 1969 and fell onto its side at the entrance to Haig Colliery yard. The accident made damage to its tank, cab and running board, this was left as it was until it was withdrawn in early 1971. The brick arch didn't even fall in when the accident occurred. The accident was always said to be due to the weight of the wagons being more than the engine could handle from a dead stand on the gradient in the conditions on the day, however a Walkden fitter found locking bolts from its front LHS brake rods on the track a few days later. Weasels cab went onto Revenge at Ladysmith as Revenge suffered damage to its LHS cab when it collided with a 21 ton hopper wagon, there are photos on the web showing it working with the cab side sheet looking like a tin can. When Weasel returned to Walkden in Spring 1970 for an overhaul it never got it still had a blue tank on it as I observed in November 1970. Charles ran with its own tank and cab which were lined maroon. Later Weasels tank was taken off and sent up to Ladysmith to go onto Revenge. Weasel had several accidents at Whitehaven and did runaround with a dented RHS bunker corner. Briefly it ran away down the incline to Haig when it was newly overhauled on the system, it had another accident when it went over the top of the rope worked incline to the harbour and derailed on catch points near to the tunnel I suspect this is when it lost its front LHS footsteps. It also collided with Golbourne. There was a three part article about the system in Steam World a few years ago and Backtrack carried an article also in about 2002/3.

I remember going up to this crossing on an earlier date and witnessing class 20s thundering past with the same number of wagons. I always assumed it was a load limit but perhaps it was most that could be accommodated in the headshunt. There were more sidings which can be seen in your first photo on top of the moor where longer trains were assembled before heading off to Ravenscraig steelworks. On my last visit in April 1979 one of the drivers had told me that during that winter they had banked the class 20s with the two steam locos on this section of line as the diesels were struggling for adhesion one day. Its interesting to note that the official load from the colliery to the exchange sidings was nine wagons and the NCB driver had a letter from the manager to that effect. However during a snowstorm the two locos Nos 25 and No.8 had battled up with a load that was obviously heavier than normal. The shunter had made a mistake and they had taken up 13 wagons, the set being so long they couldn't see the end in the snowstorm. As the line to the exchange sidings from the colliery was steeper than that in your photos it really was quite an achievement for the two very worn down Barclays.

It looks like the Sentinels are back in stock again, Monk Bar models in York have got the NCB blue ones in.

Paying for car parking in York is completely un-necessary. All you need to do to visit the city is use the excellent park and ride, £2.70 return, a facility many cities don't have including Leeds. I use it everyday as I work in the city and its saves fighting rush hour traffic. The point I was trying to make was that I paid £1.94 more than from a mail order company so the price was very competative and I would rather support a local business if it doesn't cost me more. I had an enjoyable visit to the shop as well and had the loco tested right in front of me. We are well served in Yorkshire. I have even done a model railway shop crawl visitng Millennium Models in Morley, Going Loco in Wakefield and the Model Railway Shop in Pontefract, all in a day.

At £114.94 this is the most expensive loco I have ever bought but I am well pleased and I'm no GWR fan. It's true the haulage isn't great. I coupled it to four coaches two of which are Replica Colletts and it just managed to start them on the curving platform line on my layout which is on level track. In motion the loco looks great with the side rods whirling round and it's something different in the looks department. I purchased my model at Monk Bar models in York and they tested it for me. I have purchased from mail order box shifters in the past but twice had to send models back. The price from a mail order firm is £109 add on the postage of £4 -£4.50 and you get £113 or so, not much financial advantage. I got my model as soon as available in perfect condition. I'm really pleased with the model and with the service in the local model shop.

Monk Bar models in York got nine on Monday. Six Esso ones and three NCB blue The blue ones have gone and today there was an Esso one in the display case. 71000 is in and all three versions of the L&Y loco.

Having read all the posts on this thread including the very heated ones I have to say that I am well pleased with the Dapol signal I bought at the Wigan show. The instructions supplied were clear and the signal works well. As a beginner with model railway electrics I did struggle a bit with the right switch to make the signal work, a quick visit to Monk Bar Models here in York soon produced the right 'push to make button'. I have to agree a lever type switch would have seemed preferable. The missing balance weight I was only aware of once it was pointed out on this thread. The signal certainly looks better than the void that was there before, whilst I was summoning up courage and finding plenty of time to make the Ratio signals that have been waiting for 18 months now. I find the signal makes me operate the layout more thoughtfully and I will certainly be buying a couple of the distants next and bracket signals if/when they follow. I think the signal represents good value for money. Nice work Dapol, a long standing gap in the market is filled.

Is that photo definately Baggeridge Colliery, is it not the shed at Granville Colliery? I understand that there was an operating practice at Granville to split the trains of empties half way up the bank to the colliery and hence the need for the brakevan to hold the back part of the set until the loco came back to colllect it.

I attach a photo of the Walkden yard brakevan taken in 1969. The austerity loco to the left is Humphrey which was withdrawn in 1968.

http://www.28dayslater.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=57062 The above link will take you to some photos of the NCBs Walkden Yard and their brakevan is visible in two of the photos.

Just tested the link again from this forum and it works fine. If you still have problems just go to the Cannock Wood pages on the chasewater railway blog at http://chasewaterstuff.wordpress.com

I should have mentioned in my earlier post that the NCB brakevan at Maesteg, a Toad was obtained for use on coal trains originally. When the ex Port Talbot line was open through to Bryn Colliery and beyond the line was obviously BR owned and operated. The NCB had running powers from the washery to Garth where there were exchange sidings serving St Johns Colliery. The NCB brought the output from St Johns Colliery to Maesteg for washing over the PTR and had to run with a brakevan. When the PTR line was closed the NCB carried running over this stretch but didn't bother with the brakevan anymore, however it was retained for use on derailments. I don't know where it was kept but presumed it was either at the loco shed yard or in the sidings serving the wagon shops. Interviewing one of the drivers at Maesteg he said the brakevan was a nuiscance because of having to marshall it onto trains and the amount of running round and shunting it entailed. I think we need to be careful in this thread with brakevans being used for handling traffic and those used for Pway work etc. The prescence of brakevan at a colliery doesn't mean it was used in the working of trains. However this is a very interesting thread, keep em coming! There is a photo of the Cannock Wood colliery brakevan with an NCB English Electric diesel on the following webpage http://chasewaterstuff.wordpress.com/cannock-wood-colliery-and-paddy-train-%e2%80%93-part-2-b-j-bull/

The NCB had a brakevan at Comrie Colliery which got used a lot. Its use wasn't consistent as when I went it wasn't used, but following a runaway with a hired 08 diesel it then got used regularly on the line down to Oakley yard including with No.19 the Hunslet austerity painted yellow and blue. I have seen Jospeh at Bold Colliery shunting a BR van off a rake of 16 tonners prior to taking them up the yard. There was a blue livered brake van at Walkden workshops used by the P.way gang. Also there was an LMS brakevan at Avenue Carbonisation Plant at Wingerworth near Chesterfield. I dont know why they had it it wasnt used for working traffic. This van was preserved and is now at Rowsley so far as I know in the ownership of the Heritage Shunters Trust. There was a GWR toad at Maesteg used for attending to derailments. Also there was the Dudley Pilot on the Burradon system and there is footage of this operation on a couple of Industrial Railway DVDs. The Cannock Wood colliery brakevan was placed immediately behind the loco on trips down to the exchange sidings at Hednesford there are photos of the van in use with preserved loco and Hornby model Wimblebury on this line. The van went to Littleton after Cannock Wood closed. Another operation was between Chanters Colliery and Gibfield Colliery at Atherton in Lancashire. This was to get coal for washing to Gibfield and return with empties, austerity loco Humphrey was a regular on this work. So the list is:- Lambton, Cannock Wood, Walkden (pway/derailments) Chanters/Gibfield Comrie, Westoe/ Boldon Littleton Avenue (purpose unknown) Weymss Maesteg (derailments) Ashington "I think that anywhere that the NCB had running powers over BR lines the regulations demanded the use of a brake van. " This comment isn't correct as the NCB at Whitehaven crossed BR to William Pit at the end of Bransty Station without a van and Ackton Hall colliery, Featherstone took trains over BR to Snydale Colliery without a van, admittedly distances were short . Hope this helps