HAB

Thanks for the encouragement chaps - will update as (hopefully) progress is made. Cheers,

Hi Colin, Many thanks for that - and for your comments on the "lamination approach" - I will give both approaches a go as I am still in the learning phase with this plastic stuff!. Far from being put off the SUB, I am very keen to give it a go, but still pondering methods: first stepping stone will be an augmentation trailer! Quick snap of the NOL - a million things to do but already I see from the pic that the lamp irons and body stops have gone askew, the driver's door handle has broken off, and worst of all, the release handles on the lighting and power jumper dummy receptacles are pointing up and should point down. Will try harder next time... I think this pic helps me to understand why scratch building has its appeals over a kit - I spent ages fettling the lost-wax castings for the jumper gear - probably longer than you would spend on a whole driving end - and it still looks pretty rubbish. Then again, my scratch building might look a lot worse but I would only have myself to blame!! I also understand that the 1936 equipment is common to the SUBs and indeed the Bils etc. I chose to go for that as the underframe on the Metrovick DMTB looks very bare - people might think I had just left the bits off! Best wishes,

Hi Colin and thanks for that. I did really mean the grid covers rather than the grids themselves. The reason I asked is that I am no expert in plastic stuff but I did see an article in one of the mags where a chap used the lamination technique for plastic card - just tacking it round the edges with solvent (including one "finished edge" to hold it together) then separating with the scalpel after all was done and it seemed to work fine. He was making (ISTR) station canopy brackets. (Perhaps someone will recall the details of the article) I am just about to set out making up some bits for a Roxey 2NOL (final batch) underframe with English Electric 1936 equipment - so (rather than buy the Roxey kit for the bits) I might give it a try and see how it goes. I at least have the advantage of having yours to copy from! Many thanks for the continuing inspiration! [bTW, behind the arc chute was the Line Breaker - when the driver shut off power (or let go of the deadmans!) the line breaker would open, disconnecting all the traction circuits from the Line with - if the unit had been working hard at the time - a loud "POP" and a big blue flash out of the arc chute!]

Great stuff as ever Colin! Just a question - is there a reason why you don't make multiple items like the grids by laminating a number of layers together before cutting then separating? Best wishes,

Yep, think we all went, but Dave got there first! Cheers,

... and indeed, all the other "semi-eliptical" profiles which had been about previously. It must have made for very cheap construction with Pressed-Steel Fisher being able to bang panels out by the thousand using quite cheap tooling. I assume that is also why it was selected as the basis for the BR Mk I profile. The expensive bit was the curved glass - which BR quickly ditched! Best wishes,

Gents, Some while ago we discussed the Bullied Profile and Dave dasatcopthorne suggested the Model Railway Constructor drawings. Well, a brief rummage turned up my copy of the MRC for January 1967 which contains the end profiles. [Colin:- when you find yours, you will find a very interesting series of articles starting on page 6] The drawing is for the loco hauled vehicles, but includes a note that it was "compatible with the EMU vehicles produced a year earlier". Unfortunately, it not fully dimensioned (as it is taken from the Diagram, which gives the finished dimensions but not how to construct them) but I have had a go at creating what I think would be correct for 4mm. Here is the outcome (apologies for the ropey dimensioning - I don't normally use my CAD prog for such things...) I have left the dimensions to 2 places of decimals - well done if you can build to 1/100th of a mil! I would welcome comments, should any one have any better info, before I commit the outcome to hardware... Edit:- just to mention that this gives a max. width over body of a scale 9', which is 9' 3" over handles - I trust that sounds correct!!! Best wishes,

Looking at this pic ... http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/5431211853/in/photolist-aJF3y6-dQ42h5-fhpHJ2-9gWo4F-dTurMS-9apVs5-9eTG9e-9dw4E4-9arK23-aomDiL-bUGojC-aiC8fV-efcTeS-92UwLu-9dAzMa-92aDSn-8JAWzS-9nWuyB-9eXy7J-cjanes-eoaXib-fhpHKZ-9tNAGE/ ... a bit more closely, make me think that 4129 would be a good candidate for those of us not as used to these kinds of projects as Colin - the caption says why! Colin, Please don't imagine that pics of bearings going into bogies are uninteresting - I sure I am not the only one who would be interested in what you are doing below the solebar (so to speak). Best wishes,

Dave, This sounds like a good plan! Looking forward to a psotive response from S.W S-S. I have a pretty full set of MRCs, but they are in the same place as Colin's... Many thanks and Best Wishes,

Fraid I come done on Colin's side on this! Not sure how well you personally remember the Bils Miss Prism - it was a few years ago for me, but they were a significant part of travel for me over 4 or 5 years of my formative years and, for sure, I remember them looking like this:- http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/4880443466/in/set-72157603648747922/lightbox/ I see no "rivets" Not sure how long you worked in BR carriage repair shops / main works either, (I only spent 20 years there) but perhaps you know more than me what can be done with a bit of polyester filler! (or even more evil concoctions prior to that!) Can you post an example of a teak framed, galvanised-steel panelled aircraft please? But there is a bottom line for Hornby, if the Bil has to have "rivets", why not the Maunsell loco hauled coaches? They were both built in the same works at the same time to the same design and construction principles. Best wishes,

Many thanks for these Godfrey. Maybe the origin of Hornby's rivets is revealed - when the NRM painted this thing they could not find any filler! I think the Southern Region's paint shops would be ashamed of the job - it should all have been filled then stopped, after which it would all have been flush. Just shows you should never copy a preserved example! I wonder if it might not be a good idea to post at least a few more pics here Godfrey? Perhaps showing bogie and underframe detail plus body construction? Those might be the most widely useful? - otherwise you might be emailing at lot of pics to a fair few people! Many thanks, Best wishes,

Spot on! Hence you can see it overhangs the rail by about 50%. Do I understand you to say that you intend to have your shoes actually riding on the rails? I have given it thought but sort of shied away from it! It implies you had better get your ramps right" Equally, if you just leave them off - or have them high as per Bachman, they do look a bit wrong when seen from the non-juice rail side. I might have to post a reply in the SMH thread to shake Simon for a response! Best wishes,

Not sure it would work with narrower gauges, as the bosses on the backs of the wheels might then be too close together - you could file a bit off, but they are made of pretty tough stuff! Re third rail clearances, well, I had not, so I just did. Here is the Hornby Bil;- It is just a bit too good - the shoes ride up the juice rail and the unit stops! All a bit academic of course, as the shoebeams (and axleboxes) need modification. Here is the Bachman EPB - sits well enough over the rail, but Bachman thoughtfully provide some vertical clearance. So you see how everything works out when your track gauge is to scale... Now speaking of all this reminds me - where is Oldlugger? I seem to recall him talking about working juice rails at SMH - perhaps he is gapped Best wishes,

Wow, These Chinese are getting greedy - I bought mine at the start of your Cor build and they only cost £23! Good point about hiding them in a small Guards compartment though. Best Wishes,

Hi Dave, Well, yes I have, but since I model in P4, my answer might or might not suit your needs. For P4 it is very easy - just unclip the side frames, flirt out the old wheelsets, punch the wheels off the axles (which requires a bit of brutality) then push on Ultrascale wheels to gauge then re-assemble. Sometimes it is necessary to file about 0.5mm off the insides of the frames (and the outside brake pull rods) to give a bit of side clearance, but the boss on the back of the Ultrascale wheel fits pretty well either side of the Hornby gearbox. The only fiddly bit is re-bending the pick-ups. In truth, the result is far better than the starting point which has a mile of side play. Of course, If you model in EM or 00, I don't know if the Ultrascale wheels would still fit around the gearbox as I am not familiar with their geometry. For P4, I also have another method using Exactoscale wheels on new axles, which, because they are scale tyre width, fit inside the Hornby frames without any filing. Hope that is helpful at least as a basis for further experiments! Best Wishes,

Any reason for not using a Hornby Motor bogie? The one under my [rather-rubbish-compared-to-your] 2Bil runs beautifully and I have a bought a little stock in for future needs. Best wishes,

The man is a hero - I can think of no other word! Many thanks Dave Best wishes,

The prototype Ceps (4) and Beps(4) had - as I am sure you know - external lighting and control conduits and 1951 equipment. They date from '56 and were used on the Central section so they suit my needs. But I don't know of any drawings of the external layout and all the pics I have seen are not particularly clear being taken from ground level so I'm down to a bit of reverse engineering, regarding both the roof layout and the inter-coach jumpers (unless Dave et al can work some magic). Now look - I am dragging your thread off topic even before its started: that is a record even for me! Re repair strips, since they sit proud of the bodyside, I would have thought a bit of .005 could be rubbed down with smooth wetordry and a stiff glass fibre brush? Perhaps before forming the profile? From memory, I have sense that they were probably effectively about 3/16" think owning to the bevel along the top edge. That's .0025 ... [Edit:- quantities of units were wrong] Best wishes,

... don't ask, you don't get! But now I'm happy - if you don't have any pics then no one will be able to prove my guesstimate wrong Best wishes,

Wow, this hobby would be nowhere without people like Dave - this is really good stuff, many thanks. Just one little detail to observe - along the bottom edge of the bodysides between the door openings, you can see that a capping strip has been fitted. (most prominent between the driver's and guard's door in the last pic) These were fitted at overhaul to cover corrosion and virtually all vehicles had them - not seen those modelled so far... Just out of interest Dave, you don't happen to have a similar set for a prototype 4Cep do you...??? Best wishes,

Yeh, but who would model the South Coast in Winter? And they all had the heater fuses out in Summer Looking forward to this one Colin! Cheers,

JD, the headcode stencils look very much like the Roxey ones:- http://www.roxeymouldings.co.uk/product/405/4emu24-headcode-number-stencils/ Colin, the finished job looks great and it is surprising just how much better it looks than the starting point. Just shows that detail matters - certainly when it is excellently executed Well done and good luck with the 4Sub - a quite different kettle of fish! At risk of us all banging on about them, a good view of the "Rivets" in this pic... http://www.flickr.com/photos/12a_kingmoor_klickr/6262178156/in/photostream/ Best wishes, Howard

Don't believe anyone who says P4 modellers do not bodge - we do - it is just that there are a few who will pretend they don't. Let me say that if you agonise over the position of a toilet window and then decide not to ignore it, you have proved that you are fully the master of tight tolerances! What Miss Prism says about P4 being irrelevant is of course perfectly true - good modelling is good modelling - but first-class stock looks even better on first-class track, as Simon has demonstrated at SMH. As I have said before, if you do decide to dip your toes in, you will find lots of friends willing to help. And this talk of a collaboration sounds interesting... Looking forward to the 4Sub in the meantime, Best wishes, Howard.

Count me in for that one - there were some great formations there! Thanks for the kind word chaps, Cheers,

Well you are in business then! As soon as you look at it next time, the bits I an referring to will jump out at you! There is just one other point to mention which no one has asked about - the colour of the rail. I pre-curved the rail, soldered the side ramps where needed, bent the end ramps then polished up the rail with a glass fibre brush. I then blackened the rail chemically and the way I did this was to dampen a piece of cloth in the blackening solution, then draw the rail repeatedly through the cloth whilst applying finger pressure. Gradually the rail darkens whilst retaining a polish. Finish off by drawing it through a cloth containing only water. At this stage it is a bit black and shiny, but my theory is that a mere dusting from the airbrush with the gunge mix followed by a wipe over the contact surface should finish the job. the result should look like sirty sides with an oily top. Not got quite that far yet but will post a pic in due course. I should add that I am limiting the lengths of individual rails to about 18" because I am paranoid about expansion. Hope that is useful, Cheers,