DJM Dave

First Cad/Cam designs of the King released! Today marks just over a month since i changed this project from 1 factory to another and this is the second cad/cam that i have received for checking. so progress is quite quick by comparison. Anyway, its a bit of a melange, and this will need sorting for all the alternate details this model will have (cab, smokebox door, Chimneys etc), but it does show good progress on this at last. There is currently no gap between the top of the bogie and the underside of the chassis, which is prototypical and i hope will be kept on production models. Just to note that the splashers will also be thinner in depth as they do look awful at the minute. If you have not pre-ordered your model or models, you have only until i sign off on the tooling to do so (remember this is a crowdfunded model, and as it has reached the numbers needed will go into tooling almost immediately once the final cad/cam is accepted. Once this is done, you can still order an N gauge King locomotives but the price will then rise to £169.95 per model as you will be outside the crowdfunded 'envelope' and as such you will not get the benefit of the lower price. this then plays fair with all those that have and will sign up before the tooling starts. Anyway, hope you like the progress so far but please remember there are changes needed, but if you see something obvious, please comment here and i'll take a look. cheers Dave

Hi everyone, With further deposit payments received this morning, i can confirm that everyone who has paid their deposit to date has had an invitation with an RSVP request sent to them. If you have paid your deposit and would like to attend the event and have not received your invitation, please send me an e-mail directly to info@djmodels.co.uk I'll then put your name down on the list for attending. A small update re the scanning party, is that Peter Purves is unable to attend due to a prior engagement. However, the rest of the announced presentations etc are, as of this morning, still due to happen, at least once, possibly more over the course of the day. there will not be a 'finish' time to this event, merely when everyone has had enough and drifts away / when Crewe normal Saturday closing time happens (which ever is the earliest). I'll be posting 'joining instructions' here and to my website and will mail everyone as well, by the early part of next week. Cheers Dave

as soon as i have a quote i think we can live with, i'll be in talks with Michael to agree the viability etc. however, the factory tell me that we might get a cad/cam early but not a tooling slot, as between now and Christmas there is currently only 1 or 2 tooling slots available. so this one, just might sit there until early new year before going into tooling apparently. (that's if it gets enough crowdfunders). cheers Dave

Hi,my initial thoughts were, on the APT, 2 x half sets, (of a 5 car each), one set powered 1 set dummy, with separate coaches and a trailer available for shorter than 10 rakes, or longer than 10. so there would basically be 3 different numbered trailers available ( inc 1 each in each set). stripped down, no frills, hopefully 1 decoder rather than 3. but you can get cheap 6 pin decoders now so 3 wont be bad costs wise, especially if you put a good 6 pin in the motorised unit. lose the through wiring to save on that too. i havn't asked for a quote yet, as a decision needs to be taken on format first that we can all 'live with'. As for the loco's, i have the drawings for the 81-85, but thats for the future. cheers Dave

anyway, moving on ;-)

Neither Michaell at DToS and I are interested in making amounts for ourselves from this model, as we are both avid N gaugers and see it as a way of getting an iconic model out there, and with luck, have enough in the kitty to re-invest in our aim of having N gauge classes 81-85 plus possibly some proper OHLE EMU's, like the 304 etc. However, as i keep reitterating, its all moot unless we can get over the line with the N gauge APT with enough funding to get it into Production and deliver the model to crowdfunders. So far, as you know, the response to the oroginal formay proposed has been less than stellar, so we will take a look at the revised ideas, and get quotes from China to present as 'APT-P mk2' and see how that 'flies' with everyone. I suppose only then will we know if there is a hunger for an APT in N gauge at a stipped down price point rather than a fully singing and dancing model at a higher price point. long way to go yet though, thats for sure. Dave

Break even is the goal, but it would be nice to make money on the project However, as i hope to be owning the tooling for the model, i will be able to write the too,ing down for a few years so will gain that way, but its over the longer term rather than a short sharp 'hit' of cash into the funds. so yes, the 'go' is purely break even taking into account the tools, shipping etc etc etc, and of course the dreaded 20% VAT paid to HMRC.

hi mate, not so sure as the highest orders were for 14 car sets. cheers dave

Ok realism time here folks please....... 'paying over the odds to start with' when compared with what for instance? Already we see that for a 14 coach train with all the bells and whistles and with an extremely low MOQ (minimum order quantity) the costs are high. Simply put, you have to shift xxx amount of product at xxx price to break even (break even includes, development, tooling, cad/cam desin, research, shipping to the docks, shipping on a ship, then shipping to a distribution centre, then shipping to you the customer.........then there is good old VAT. All this before a portion of wage is considered), and at the full fat price we couldnt attract 100 orders! I'm not sure we will attract the xxx orders we need, even at a reduced price, but i think, once ive spoken to Michael, we will do it as a 'kill or cure' the N gauge project outright. So, when compared to,other trains out there where they are amortised at well beyond what the APT will raise by numbers sold, are we to do? Apart from a lovely looking and running model, what you would be getting is an exclusive club membership of how ever many are made, as rather like the oo one, i do not see second or more runs made past the initial one.

N gauge Class 17 update I am conscious that there have been a couple of requests on this topic for an update on the progress of the Class 17 and crowdfunding investors will all be keen to have this too I am sure. Regrettably it is not the news I had hoped to share, and things have not progressed to the plan I had envisaged. There have been difficulties which mean that I cannot progress this project at this time despite tooling having taken place on the model and payment made for the tooling under agreement with China. If I was able to provide a revised timescale and believe I could deliver to it, I would leave it to investors to decide whether it would be acceptable to them, but as it is, I cannot do even that currently. So, I have reached the conclusion, that as I cannot now promise delivery of the Class 17 models on the basis that those who funded up front were expecting, it would not be right to continue to hold their money. I will therefore be refunding all those who have "crowdfunded" this models 2nd EP tooling monies in full during the course of approximately the next 5-10 days. I am sure you will all be disappointed as I am, but I feel this is the only fair way to deal with the situation. I am sure you will all appreciate that I personally find myself at this time out of pocket to the tune of a significant amount (before I even think about the time I have invested in research, design etc) but that is, rightly, my risk. I am hopeful that the class 17 will go ahead though, but it now finds itself, unfortunately, a ‘back burner item’ at this time. However, I have mitigated further risk by seeding various projects with a number of factories so as not to have all my eggs in a single basket. The N gauge King and Class 92’s are seeded with a factory that has many successful designs and manufacture that are well known UK modellers. The King is moving on in leaps and bounds now and a first cad/cam has been received and checked and found to be a little too high and long (3 inches in length at 12 inches to the foot scale, for instance). The 92’s will follow the King into the tool room so that Autumn and winter of this year things are looking more productive than they have been for a long while now. The APT is seeded with another factory and contracts have been granted for the design, tool and supply to this manufacturer who makes models for the USA market for a number of high profile companies there. This company will also be completing further N gauge models that will now start to move along the design and tooling to production line. This model will enter tooling once the cad/cam and testing on a scale mock up has been completed successfully. The shark and mermaid wagons are with a third factory, and they will be commissioned with more wagons and perhaps locomotives as things progress. Cheers Dave

who's that question to?

I'm set on the powered vehicle giving power and maximum weight to be honest.

its really about how many wires you can safely make a connecting block for without it becoming too fragile. in a perfect world i'd love the N gauge one to have speakers in 3 places on the train. motor, and both driving trailers for horn etc. still early days but ive seen an 8 pin connector that works nicely, although people might think thats fiddly enough. lets get peoples concensus first, then look at 'tweeks' to the model. mind you it's all moot if financially it wont fly, or if it will fly, we dont get enough sign ups.

way ahead of you mate. cheers dave

through wiring is easy, but i'm not sure a new price point should include 2 powered power cars to be fair.

ok, opening this out a bit, pick up on all wheels with through wiring, 1 decoder, 1 power car, light bar ready and wired to DCC?, possibly a lifting nose with NEM pocket depending on cost savings etc, non tilt, basic coloured internal finish, posable panto and DCC sound compatability? How does this sound? early days but open to thoughts. cheers Dave

Hi Graham, So far i have a grand total of 635 x N gauge HUO hoppers with 'expressions of interest' in them. However please note that this includes single units that make up a 4 pack. The demographic is the pre-tops is way ahead of tops versions which have not cleared single figures for each set and single wagon yet. This figure includes cancellations, and customer changes from non 'tops' to 'tops' versions. Advertising will start up on these again soon and we will see if another few months of concerted 'push' helps these across the line. HTH Cheers Dave

i like the thinking mate, sounds likeva possibility. however current sales of the whole choice arent even 100 units, so i think possibly its either there isnt a market for THE iconic West Coach train, or that the price point is too much and needs trimming. i'm sure i'll be having a chat with Mike at DToS in the coming weeks about what to do with the proposed N gauge version. cheers Dave

i think the problem with offering 4 pack extra coaches is quantity. for example, and totally selfishly i may add, i or DToS wont want to be sitting on stock of those for any short length of time, let alone long. so how many are made? are enough made to produce 2 for each full set of 8 units made? thats a lot of dead stock, maybe only produce some of 1 pack of 4, again how many? its a lottery, and unless everyone can guarantee they will want one, either there will be customers who get them, or customers that miss out. We would be damned if we did enough, and damned if we dont, even thiugh the latter leaves us with no dead stock.

Hi,i've been thinking about this recently, and given the very poor pick up regarding orders, as it stands it will be a struggle to the the project going, but im leaving the crowdfunding open.....just in case. However, i wonder if a cheaper stripped down version might be a flyer in one of 2 formats (black cab windows and yellow cab windows) with limited amount of extra coaches available for those that want a longer train? thinking a 7 car, non tilt, non nose lifting single powered unit. separate coaches with printed numbers (id rather not do no numbers as that adds to the complications even if there was an available transfer sheet). i'll leave that open to those interested to comment here if they want to? cheers dave

or a class of loco?

quite a few if you look hard enough. the best is changing factory charges, where factory 1 wont release the tooling unless xxx is paid (call it a randsom if you will) for it to be transferred to factory 2. they are dressed up under other names, but it has and does happen. even then theres no real guarantee of 100% of the tooling going on the shipment transfer either.

hi everyone, ordered the paint thursday, it arrived yesterday. fantastic service from Craftmaster and terrific help from you guys. many thanks cheers Dave

Hi, without trying to come across as a smart a ss, i have said that there is still a mock up test model to make and test, taking into account various factors like adhesion, radius curves, mountain climbing, tilt etc. what looks good in a cad cam may still be a dog unless this train is tested to the umpteenth degree before metal cutting, so thats what we are going to do. i doubt radius 1 curves will be slack enough to be honest, but i'll try. remember , tilt wil be limited so wont tilt out of its parameters. also a traction tyre set of wheels will be fitted as standard with a non traction tyres set of wheels in the box for those that dont like them. as for traction tyres, some of the best manufacturers in the world use them still and on new models, so its obvious the system works. heck 'if it aint broke, dont fix it' should be the motto here. still a ways to go but i fear we are over analising things before we truly get past the 2nd June 'start line'. lets see what the test model does first, i suggest, then go from there. One things for sure, im not out to design and supply a good looking train that doesnt deliver as that would be self defeating. cheers Dave

Hi, powered units will have American style chassis in them with maximum designed in weight. non powered power cars will be plastic. however, all cars will be on pin point bearings, but we are doj d some test models (bespoke, not from the tooling) with projected weights and hopefully working rudimentary tilt to test, check and test again resistances to balance the weight of each coach accordingly. this will include resistance caused by a possible feature that i hope to announce at the scanning day on june 2nd at Crewe. if needs be we might look at traction tyres on the powered unit, with non traction tyred wheel sets in the box for customer swap out if required. so yes we are looking at it closely, and will publish our findings and hopefully video of the mock up test unit working as soon as we are able. cheers dave