ChrisN

It's good to see the progress, plenty of thought provoking senic stuff as well.  I have never done senics so perhaps I will have to have a very urban Mid-Wales.

I went out on Tuesday for the evening and it has taken me this long to catch up.  I am sure that when I logged on tonight there were only 152 pages and as I read down each page another page appeared!  I should have had plenty of time as I had Thursday off as leave and I retired (early) on Friday, but we have been getting ready to move and to move my youngest son out, (for the third time), today.

No modelling until we move in and then just small projects until we get the place sorted.  All previous plans are now defunct as I have been told I can have the third bedroom! Well, as long as we can sleep someone in there sometimes.

Just one question about the tags.  If someone is looking for an S&C or late steam layout they may find it harder to find, except I suppose that all the Lunester layouts will be in 'View New Content'.  I suppose I never had had a problem finding what I follow as it is either in 'Content I follow' or 'My Content'.  My problem is reading through the layouts I have started on so that I'm only reading the new content so that I can start on other layouts after that.  When I move and am off line for a while.......   (I'll probably come back and it will have been so long you will be running Voyagers and stream excursions.

If you are after workshop tools, Wills do a good set in whitemetal (SSAM102). I used it for an engine shed interior, which you can see here and here. Preiser and Noch do sets with lathes etc. too, I can't remember what catalogue numbers they were but I know Gaugemaster stocked them. There was also a company in the US doing etched details including spanners, hammers, etc... can't remember the name sadly.

 

For the lineside, Cooper Craft do nicely moulded (and good value) plastic sets of workmens' tools (barrow, picks and spades) and platelayers' tools (rail benders, jacks etc.)

I knew I had seen them, just could not remember where especially as I spent a happy few days trawling through wargaming sites looking for 19th century civillians and found lots of interesting stuff. (Most of my modelling is packed away ready to move,)

I looked through Gaugemaster yesterday and could not see the tools though, maybe I just missed them.

Hi Chris

 

Thanks for that, I did have the Langley figures once so I may have to have a look through my boxes to see if I still have them, Iv'e a feeling though that they were one of the things I lost over the years.

 

I have also seen the tools but can't remember where, I was starting to think of ways to make my own but if you do find them let me know please as I can then get on with something else.

 

Thanks for your comment and help.

 

Jim

Jim,

There are some Langley models on another page with a tree trunk saw, Shire Scenes on the Scale Link site has these two wood saws:

http://www.scalelink.co.uk/acatalog/Shire_Scenes_1_76_scale.html

and it Scale Link there is the woodcutting set, about half way down:

http://www.scalelink.co.uk/acatalog/Scenic___Scale_1_76__OO_.html

I am sure I have seen lathes and things but they are probaly buried deep in wargaming sites along with sets of fireplaces (war gamers want fireplaces to put in bombed buildings along with damaged furniture) so if you wish I can look for those but it may take a while.  It is a 'finishing touch' so I am not sure if you want to have everything completed before moving on or not.

Jim,

Well done it looks great! 

I have had a look for figures to do the repair and these may be of use.  The first set is Scale Link and I do not know what the quality is like:

http://www.scalelink.co.uk/acatalog/Figures___Scale_1_76__OO_.html

The second lot are Preiser, third group down, and will need backdating, and are a bit small:

http://www.gaugemaster.com/search_results.asp?searchstring=pr10%20brand~~583~~brand&searchtitle=exclusive%20figures&currentpage=13

Or finally there is good old Langley which probably don't:

http://www.langley-models.co.uk/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_OO_Scale_Accessories_F77_to_F123_NEW_KITS_released_14.html

I have seen models of saws and lathes and wotnot but I would need to have a search around for them.  I can look if you are interested.  It is what comes of wanting to model 1895 and not actually having much time to model so I spend my time looking for suitable figures to go on my layout when I build it.  As when I build coaches I fill them with people I need quite a few.

Jeff,

It does look so much better the way you have opened it out.  It gives it a much more of a feel of distance between the two sides.  I know you have made it larger but that is not what I mean.  It makes it feel more like a large valley than a narrow gorge, and on the S&C you have lots of space.

Sheep.  I am sure on one of the photos there were white specs on the moor, not sure if they were sheep or printing defects.  However, with the shallower sides you could have a proper field or two.  This would give a different colour to the landscape as well. 

Chris - that is a magnificent scene and remarkably similar to how I see the situation - with the direction of stream flow reversed ie. mine flows down the valley towards the viaduct at rear, and not from the viaduct.

 

I've always envisaged the stream flowing between the middle arch sections with the rest gradually being swallowed up by the encroachment of the hillside on either side.

 

I'll have a look at the Google search results. I think my "concoction" is going to please some and be hated by others - but, again, compromise plays a part.

 

Jeff

Jeff,

I am sure it will work the way you imagined.  Will tou need extra courses of stonework around the viaduct as it embedds in the ground?

I am sure you can get away with no embankment on the left, especially as it goes straight into a tunnel.  On the images of viaducts of the few that show the ends not all have embankments.  If you wanted, you could try one on the right.

You were obviously right in only having one viaduct.  I do not think I have ever seen them in pairs and it would have had to be a flat bottomed wide valley for it to make any sense.

In the end it is your railway and you have to be satisfied with the end product.  There is no point in trying to please everyone else and being disatisfied yourself.

Finally, the most impressive viaduct I have ever seen is the LLangollen canel which must be about 200ft above the A5 and driving underneath it is amazing.

Last idea is good, Chris. There'll only be sheep, water, rocks and vegetation - and the occasional fisherman - in the valley.

 

Can you be a bit more specific with the highlighted comment. London or not, YOU see what I'm doing with fresh eyes, so your ideas are invaluable! I've already had some great (amending) suggestions from the Lunesters, so run me through it....

 

Thanks,

 

Jeff

 

Edit: I think I see what you mean. You refer to the former nearest the viaduct - the bit to the left of the flat (river bed) DOES look too high. If you confirm, I'll modify! Cheers! J.

Jeff,

The viaduct appears to have been built to stand on a wide flat valley.  Now you may make it look alright by covering it at either side with the hill but I must admit I have never imagined yours like that.  (Well, it is your imagination that counts though.)  If the valley under the viaduct is going to be flat then the last former I think should be lower.  If you Google "Viaducts in England" you will see what I mean by the viaducts that I imagine.  However, halfway down is this one below, which is probably more like the one that you will end up with.

I've done a couple more "centre-valley formers" - the 2 nearest the viaduct. I've also inserted a "guide" piece of 2" x 1" so I know exactly where the middle formers will go... as explained above, they have to be removed until I've built the first part of the hillside.

 

A couple of photos. 

 

100_2580.JPG

 

100_2586.JPG

 

I'm effectively out of timber now, so I'll go and order some more tomorrow...

 

Jeff

The hillside is coming on a treat but then I would not have expected anything else really from you.

Looking at the above photos I am a little worried that the last former is a little too high before you get the flat before the viaduct.  I am probably totally mistaken as my knowledge of fells and viducts is very limted as they do not occur very often in London where I have lived the majority of my life, and the only viaduct I see regularly is on the edge of Colchester.

Someone mentioned earlier that the sides looked too steep for sheep.  I know that you have slackened the hillsides off a bit but my first thought about it was 'Sheep tracks'.  I am not sure if it would work but running a blunt cocktail stick in the final fller and painting it a slightly different colour should do the trick.  You may of course have more interesting things to do on the layout.

'Here's the first part of Andy's workshop (Backscene Painting)  G-Tap.

Andy, and George,

What gave you the idea to do a video?  I think it is brilliant. There is so much content.  Iam not at all artistic so I would not have thought of painting my own back scene, but now who knows?

Chris,

 

I did a bit of reading up (Oh how I like reading about coaches!) and discovered that the Midland were the first company to introduce bogies on coaches in the mid 1870's.

 

With regards to your coaching stock when you move, the good old Ratio kits are good for GWR 4 wheelers. For LNWR 6 wheelers you could look out for the old K's kits, or you could bash the Ratio LNWR bogies. For the underframe I'd go with either a Slaters or branchline clemenson with scratchbuilt sideframes. Keep an eye on ebay, both the GWR and LNWR ratios come up cheaply, I quite often get them built up for about £3 and then strip them down to cut the sides up. The LNWR had some nice 40 ft ex radial non corridors that you can make easily out of pairs of LNWR corridor 3rds. (I can email a photo of a half built one to you if you want).

 

Not sure what the roxey plastic kits are like, but I'm sure they will be useful too.

 

I've done a couple of etched carriages now, they go together quite easily, and I use normal eleccy soldier on them too!

 

You're future daughter in law is very sensible for leaving Littleport!

 

Andy G

Thanks Andy,

The information is very interesting.

I could put out a thread hijack warning but to be honest I think that although 9Fs & Britannias are nice, once Jeff has finished his layout and started building coaches he will really want something a bit different and realise just how nice victorian engines were and how boring Mk1 coaches are compared to multi compartment six wheelers with toilet facilities.

I did not buy 'LNWR 30ft 1in six wheeled carriages' as I do not necessarily have a specific interest in the LNWR but now it is out of print I fancy a copy.

I have got some Ratio 4 wheelers and will be putting Shire Scenes coach sides on them.  I have started one and it is the first time I have worked with brass so it is a steep learning curve.

I have also seen the Ks kits but as I think they do not have floors it would take a bit of fettling to get something that looked reasonable.  Also being white metal I wonder how they would easily be part of a train of lighter plastic or brass coaches.

I have three Kemilway 6 wheel Cambrian coaches which are not the easiest to work out how to put together, and in fact started a thread on six wheeled coaches to get help and I was pointed in the cleminson underframe but not sure whose.  I am sure I can sort out the Kemilway sides but that is for the future.

I can see that I will have lots of coaches, all filled with people and not a proper engine to pull them.

Hi Andy,

 

point of order here 'We are the ones that keep the railway working you know!

I always thought when I was a BR fitter at Toton that 'we kept the railway working!' I did have a box of VERY BIG spanners to carry around you know.

 

Here's a old 'railway' question, let's see who's the first to get the correct answer from the NON-RAILWAY employees...

"WHAT IS THE LIGHTEST THING ON THE RAILWAY" ?

 

Cheers

Mike

I think it is something like Grub Water Rest, i.e. a railway insult so I will go with

X's pay packet  where X = the railway group I'm in (Signalmen, fitters, drivers etc)

or

as Mythocentric said the managers hot air

By the way Mike, did you have any female spanners?  You probably know that a female spanner is caled a Wrench. 

You are correct in saying that the leading four numbers are years and as the Pullmans were always on trucks (Bogies to us!) (except for Balmoral and it's twin) I would say that even some of the 1876 trains <could> of had MR bogies on them, but I don't think they did. I'll look up at home tonight and report tomorrow when the first bogie appeared on the MR.

 

Sadly without looking up the accident report (which I can do if you want and see if the railway archive website has it) I don't know. Theres also a chance that the report won't tell you.

 

Reminds me that i must letter up my MR 6wheeler and put some couplings on it.....

 

Andy G

Andy,

Thank you.  Don't go to any trouble, it was more of a generic question.  I modell 009 at the moment but when we move I will probably need a 00 layout to run the most famous E2 in the world.  (Grandchildren you see.)  Although the layout is set in Wales in 1895 and therefore in Cambrian territory the rolling stock available is all etched brass, and I do not solder (yet) and the locos are of the same type.

This means that it is likely to run stock from the GWR or LWSR, or even the LNWR.  As the locos are the main problem I will probably use R-T-R which would put it forward into the first ten years of this last century.  I know bogie stock was coming in more then for main lines, but not so much on branch lines.

Also, I suppose it is due to my narrow gauge influence, I just like 4 & 6 wheel coaches.

Finally, if I remember rightly there was a photo of you on Littleport Signal box.  Well, that is where my future daughter-in-law comes from, although she has moved away from home.

Can't wait to see your 'industrial' landscape then!

 

As to S&C train formation from the book, a bit disappionted as I can only give details of MR formations from the book, the laters are just mentioned as trains..... anyway, seems I've found them you lot can have them too....

 

1876 Bradford to leeds. Tank engine + 6 off compo's +2 off 1st + brake 3rd + luggage van

        12.08am Carlisle to St Pan express. Engine and tender + Brakevan + Pullman +3 off Compo's +brakevan

 

1878 Up Scotch Express. Engine 901 + 2 off guards vans + Pullman (Enterprise) + 5 carriages + guards van

 

1882 9.15pm Sunday Oct 29th Down Scotch express. Engine and tender  horsebox + guards van +NBR 3rd + bogie comp + 2 off Pullman sleepers (Enterprise + Excelsior) + 2 off bogie compo + GSWR 3rd + MR CCT + Guards  van.

 

1910 24th Dec Down Scotch Express. 2-4-0 pilot no 48+ 4-4-0 no 549 +(all on bogies unless said) M&GSW brake 3rd no 237 (brake end leading) M&GSW 3rd no 225 + 2 off MR 12wheel sleepers nos 2765 and 2767 + M&GSW comp no 227 + M&GSW 3rd no 203 + M&GSW brake van no 208 + MR 6 wheel brake van no 337.

 

1913 2nd sept Ex Glasgow/Stranraer. 4-4-0 no 993 + (all bogies again) M&GSW comp no 254 + 2 off MR sleepers nos 2770 and 2777 + M&GSW 3rd no 237 + M&GSW 6 wheel brake van no 204 + M&GSW comp brake no 250 + MR 3rd no 79 + MR sleeper no 2785 + M*GSW 3rd no 227 + M&GSW brake no 208 (349 tons)

 

1913 2nd sept Ex Edinburgh. 4-4-0 no 446 + (all bogie M&NB) 3rd no 123 + comp sleeper no 155 + comp brake no 143 + sleeper no 171 + comp brake no 142 + comp no 122 (245 tons).

 

As most of these details came from accident reports I'll have to see what I can find in later reports! Hopefully they are of some interest to someone out there!

 

Andy G

I assume the dates are years and not train running numbers?  I would have thought that 1882 was a bit early for bogies but I am willing to be proved wrong.  Do you know if the others were 4 or 6 wheelers?

Thanks

You are actually correct about the walling, Andy. I've been looking at a "few" S&C photos and books over the last couple of days and it looks like I'll have to build the walls layer by layer, using slabs of DAS or filler - most likely the clay. Photos in the Feb RM - you mentioned this last week, so I bought a copy - confirm the layering. It's ok - so what if it takes me a hundred hours? I spent more working time than that on the viaducts...

I was going to suggest you built them brick by brick!  It would enable some bits of the wall to be broken down.  As for taking hundred of hours, you do not have to do it all at once.  It could be one of those little jobs that you do when you have the odd few minutes between other less important things of life, llike seeing your brother, having a social life etc.

As for sheep, is it Preiser that do packs of 40 or so?  I know they are HO but they will be highland sheep so do not have to be as large and as fat as Southdowns.

So, to replicate the burnt trackside would using burnt hanging basket liner give the right effect?  Or is there a better way?  Would the burnt effect still be around in December and was this also GWR practice?  

Polly,

Not sure if this is helpful but I have seen that Slaters do a grey scatter material called 'Dead Grass'. 

Would you not also need trees that has half lost their leaves?  Also, you would need to add milliput overcoats and scarves to your layout figures

Hi Chris,

 

Sorry, 1st chance I have had to see this film, takes me back to when men were men and sheep were worried - brilliant! thanks.

Mike

Hi,

I am glad that you and others like this.  It was a different world then, one I grew up in and just remember.

What I like most about the video for this thread is that it was at Bleath Gill, which I assume is on Blea Moor and down the Dyke or up the Fell from the as yet unpainted tunnel mouth.

(Strange that Devil's Dyke in Brighton is a hill)

Hi Chris,

At the north end of Dent station past the 'Coal Road' bridge the land is still rising moderately so the fences shown in the picture were to prevent the snow blowing down into the cutting whilst opposite the station and a bit further south there were a couple of lines of fencing behind each other due to the steeper slope, it did'nt work in 1947 or 1963 though.

Cheers

Mike

Thanks.  I do not know the area but that is what I assumed.  I remember a video on youtube, which I thought was 1963 but I have just found it and it is 1955, a goods train getting stuck on Bleath Gill in the snow.

I'll post it here

Now would that make a nice diorama?

It's snow fencing isn't it, to stop the huge amounts of snow falling onto the line?

If that is snow fencing, and I do not doubt that it is given its sturdy construction, is the hill it is protecting the railway from, hiding, (yes I've been up mountains where the crest in front of you is the 'top' only to find when you get there a bigger one is hiding behind it, and an even biger one after that), or is it flat the other sidew and so is protecting the railway from blown snow?

But the railway back then was like that.  OK so on a few very rundown lines from the late'60s onwards the lineside got messy but generally the cess area was always kept neat and tidy for the simple reason that it had to be in order to provide safe walking and embankments and cuttings were kept under control to prevent the growth of trees and large shrubs which would interfere with drainage and soil stability as well as reducing fire hazard risk.  I don't know how it was done on the LMR but standard WR practice was to burn off embankments and cutting sides twice a year once in Spring and again in the Autumn.

 

All of this sort of attention began to fall by the wayside with teh end of steam traction, well maintained cresses were often inundated as ballast depth was greatly increased for cwr and higher line speeds and so on.  The lineside of today - made even worse by the years of Railtrack mismanagement and penny pinching - is almost no guide whatsoever to the way things were up and into the 1960s and, in some places, the 1970s.

I remeber as a little lad, either on a train to Norwich or on the line through Stevenage past Hitchin my mum pointing out that the farmland was ploughed clean for about six feet "to stop the crops catching on fire".  I had assumed that this was a common feature but the grass here is down to the permanent way so it was probably more common in arable farming areas.  Is that assumption correct?  My mum was brought up in Hertfordshire and knew the mainline there quite well.

Thanks Jeff, I am NOT planning a backscene on this one as at home I will spin it around and operate as at shows. Also I like to comunicate with the paying public and find back scenes always a bit restrictive, and with Glen Roy and Loch Leven I operate from the front at the end, and I find this great to be able to not only chat to the public but let them have a go as many people are frightened of DCC untill they try it, also the kids enjoy starting up Diesels and sounding the horns. I was going to do the same with this and I don't know why I didn't to be honest. The main point lever and the on/off switch for the dead section are under the grass embankment along the back. I can get to them from the front but its very awkward and would deffinately be a pain at shows.

Andy,

I know I am replying late but I have come late to the thread and I am slowly making my way through it.

I do think the model looks brilliant but what I want to comment on is how you plan to operate it, and how you have operated your other layouts at exhibitions.  Brilliant!   When my lads were young I only managed to get to shows with the three of them it tow.  The attitude of some exhibitors was that they appeared to think the paying public was a distraction to their running session at best and as for children, well lets not go there.  I remember one layout which was at eye level, for people of 5ft 10 inches!

The best one was a shunting layout, I think exhibited in Romford which was designed for kids to have a go.  Happy days.

More power to your elbow, is what I say.  I hope that you have as much fun exhibiting this as you have building it. 

I like the pantiles too.  If you have the time and enjoy it why not try these things?

I have put things inside of things, (to paraphrase Monty Phython). such as people inside carriages, the interior of a station and the thought then is, 'how do I display this'.  Not because we want to show of necessarily but because we want to enjoy what we have made.  One way for me would be to make it so that the roof comes off, well on the carriages at least.  As there would not be lights inside then why not have the roof being fixed?

The strength of the thread is that not only is there lots of modelling weaved in with the chat, but when questions are asked they get answered.  I have learnt lots over the past few months, although I have not been able to add much as my modelling experience and opportunity has not been very great up until now.  That may change as retirement is coming earlier than expected at the end of this month, although they have persuaded me to go back two days a week.  However, before more modelling comes a house move, and yes probably sorting the house out once we get there.

My main concern with all this though is that I shall probably be offline for quite a long time so how am I ever going to catch up?  At the moment most of my available time is used catching up on this thread! 

The other great thing with this thread is the way that other threads are given adverts so you end up looking at those as well, which is good because you look at layouts you may not have looked at otherwise, and although the scale, era etc. is not what you are particularly interested in, the methods of modelling and the results are.

It is also comforting to know that other people are doing what I am doing and looking at house and thinking, "how does that fit together, look at that valance, the gutters on those houses are right next to the wall, that's unusal."  I think my wife thinks it's all part of me losing my marbles. 

I like the idea of an index.  When we are moved in, extension built, house sorted, and on the days I am not back at work, going fishing, helping to look after the grand kids then I have a room to build a layout in so I will need to come back and have a look.

Right, stuff to do before I go to bed, none of it modelling though. 

I haven't seen an aurora for about 8 years. The last one was in about 2004. I was driving over the Pennines in the middle of the night - it was clear and pitch black. Something caught my eye. I pulled the car onto the side of the road just up from Ravenstonedale, near Kirkby Stephen. The entire northern half of the sky, from horizon upto an altitude of about 50 degrees was covered in glowing, writhing "curtain" patterns of light. A mix of colours (ionised Nitrogen and Oxygen emission, principally) swirling around. I've seen a few, but that was one of the best.

 

I haven't thought about uncoupling, yet. I'm not going to fit Kadees I think the "hand of God" will have to suffice to start with!!

 

Jeff

I have never seen one but a friend of mine was driving with her dad in Cambridgeshire saw one.  She was very excited but he had not got a clue about what it was and why it was so special.

For us physicists that have forgotten most things except the half life of I131 to 2 decimal places, what colours are they? 

I like the look of your fiddleyard.  I keep thinking that you will need more lines for the branch but I suppose you will only need one engine and a couple of coaches and a pick up goods.  Did they have mixed trains on the S&C branches?

I can across these in myTransport Diversions news letter.  The first I thought was a reduced rate book but is in fact a calender.  I thought you might be interested as it is a picture of an S&C Viaduct.  They were obviously not as good viaduct builders as you as it is straight!       http://www.transportdiversions.com/publicationshow.asp?pubid=9207

The second is a book which has just been published about the West Coast line.  It appears to be full of WTT and more interestingly coach movement diagrams, i.e. what coaches were on what trains and where they went.  I know it is not S&C but it may have something intersting in it but they may also do ones later, if they have not done so already for the S&C

http://www.transportdiversions.com/publicationshow.asp?pubid=9273

Looking at it again it was just published in December but is out of stock.  I assume they have not come in yet.  Also there is a link to others in the series, including one for the midlands.

There is nothing so complicated on my railway.  4 or perhaps 6, four wheel coaches go up the line, and then come back again. The joys of narrow gauge.

That is a clever piece of lateral thinking to see a dairy in an engine shed.  The result looks excellent too!