Jol Wilkinson

The only way to find that out would be to ask them, but would they be willing to share that information? It may be that they commission specific motors from an established manufacturer, rather than buying off the shelf.

Disagree totally. Mr Mashima produced a range of good quality motors that fitted most 4mm modellers requirements. They were probably produced in limited volumes compared to the likes of Mitsumi and Mabuchi, so consequently more expensive. While various alternatives are being talked about, there are no or few alternative sizes. Canon (as sold by Wizard) only list a 1620 in 12volts, their smaller range rated at 5v. We are having to take the crumbs from the table of the suppliers manufacturing for the automotive, toy sectors (I include RTFdrones in that category), etc.. Until some specific motor sizes andspecifications are commissioned , we are where we are. At least on supplier is looking into this seriously, so their may be some light at end of the tunnel. Try a search for Wizard model railways.

I can only find a Canon 1620 motor on the Wizard site, is that the one you have? There are a number of motors being suggested as suitable replacements for Mashima, notably a Mitsumi motor, selling for £1.00 - £7.00 depending on where you look. They are slightly larger than a Mashima 1224. I bought a several of these to test and initial impressions are that they seem ok, starting (no load) at about the same voltage as a Mashima 1224 and drawing about twice the current (.4A) when stalled at 12V. The most obvious difference is noticeably more noise/vibration when running at higher speed, presumably as they are three pole, rather than the five pole of the Mashima. They have polarity marked connectors and one ran unevenly at low speed "in reverse", possibly due to brush contact problems. They have finger type brushes - presumably optimised for one direction of rotation, whereas the Mashimas have tubular brush holders so that direction of rotation is irrelevant.

Lotus Cortinas too.

Ivan, the manufacturer only makes money from replacement parts, the dealers from servicing. I spent almost all my working life in the motor industry and increasingly the supply of "pattern parts" became big business, especially for for higher volume production cars. I always found it remarkable what would be copied. Panels, that require a large investment in tooling were popular, but smaller trim items weren't. Pattern panels were also often of poor quality, requiring a certain amount of reworking to get them to fit, obviating any initial savings. Certain continental manufacturers were also very keen on protecting their image through policing. as best they could, the supply of copy parts. It wasn't unusual to find items that even included the manufacturers logos, etc. to make them look original. However, the law seemed very "foggy" on such issues, probably to help keep the legal profession in employment. Jol

Ivan, they were designed to make a large profit. The driving bit is entirely coincidental, especially nowadays when driving a BMW is secondary to impressing people.

A good example of an everyday car failing to attract the "collectable classic" desirability. They were very good, practical, estate cars but like other family cars, few have survived.

London Road, the 4mm LNWR layout, was at Railex in 2016. Our next outing is at ExpoEM at Bracknell on 13th and 14th May. London Road Models will be at both ExpoEM and Railex

You also said, "She had an original and lots of fun but build quality?" so I thought you were comparing two cars developed and build 35 - 40 years apart, but as you say that's not really a valid comparison. I have a 72 MGB Roadster and it reminds me of how "rudimentary" cars of that era were. Nowadays cars are much more "intensively" designed, including under bonnet presentation, etc. (although how many owners of modern cars even know how to open the bonnet, never mind realise what they are looking at). Putting the key in the ignition of the MGB involves looking under the dash to find the lock among an assortment of cables and other bits and pieces.

Quote from Wikipedia "The first generation Countryman was primarily built in Graz, Austria under contract by Magna Steyr, making it the first of the BMW era Minis to be manufactured entirely outside the UK" So does that make it 100% BMW?

Ah, the original Mini, the classless car. Unlike the current version.

Brian, very nice. The Ladies and Gents signs were often white background with black letters - the opposite of the workmens carriage plates. Any chance of supplying them like that? Also, any likelihood of the etched LNWR carriage sides/kits being available through 247 again?

Nobody that models in P4 had any "skill" until they learned it. I model in P4 and don't regard it as any different to the other two 4mm gauges in terms of the skill required. What you do need is the desire to build your own models and the enthusiasm to have a go.

Guy, a look through the HMRS West Coast Joint Stock book shows a drawing and photos of a 50' arc roof W41 Brake Sleeping Composite intended for through workings.They looked like ordinary corridor carriages but the seats in the 1st c;lass compartments could be pulled out to make beds. They had a small end Guards section, two 1st and three 3rd class compartments. Other drawings and photos show 50' Brake/Composite D42, Brake/3rd D67 and Brake/1st D18, all corridor carriages without duckets on the Guards section. I can't find any examples of 4mm kits for these carriages. However, all they would need would be sides and ends, to use with Ratio underframes (much like the LRM 50' non corridor carriages). Jol

Thanks Peter, I'll stick with a Stevenson Carriages kit for another 42' WCJS Composite. I can the add the LRM 42 Full Brake I already have built to give a six coach rake which should fit the traverser I used to own a four track circular test track, built by John Redrup on boards/legs he commissioned from Red Dog. We did discuss using it as part of another layout proposal, but I sold it on before we bought London Road back. It is now in the hands of the S4 Society North London Group. Jol

Peter, don't tempt me. I have a set of Trevor Charlton sides for a WCJS D56 42' Third, so that'll make up three to go with the D10 diner, plus I have a D317 Brake/Third from TC sides I'll add to the set. That is the "unusual" end brake compartment 50' arc roof version. That's about all the fiddle yard traversers will hold although five 42' plus the diner should fit if I get two more 42' kits. I haven't seen a WW kit. The sides are reasonably priced but the cost of the "kit" to include floor and roof is quite a bit more. Do you have the kit or jsut thes sides/ends Jol

Hi John, nice work but sorry I can't help with the instructions. I have the body etches for the Railmotor but no motor bogie etch, so I'll have to design a new one. Did you use the original? What is the roof? The original kits had a vac formed roof IIRC. Jol

I have changed the title of this thread and hope it more accurately represents the contents. Thanks to everyone who has contributed, please keep it up.

Peter, thanks, I should have known to look here as well; http://www.lnwrs.org.uk/Modelling/4mmcarriages Re Modellers World, I only visited Barry Jones' shop a couple of times when on business trips to Coventry. I bought the D9 kit during one of those visit but never met Barry as his wife was behind the counter. I think he was one of a group of modellers in the Midlands with an interest in the LNWR and it's coaches. Several people have supplied etched kits and sides over the years, many of the same diagrams and possibly from the same artwork/tools. They included, I believe, Eroll Surman, Ralph Jackson, Brian Badger and David Gillott. As far as I know LNWR kits were available from various "trade names", including 247 Developments, M&L, MicroRail, Brain Badger, Modellers World and Jackson Evans. An interesting if, at this distance, rather confusing picture. As far as I can see, most of the original kits have now found new homes, with the exception of the Modellers World range. That's a pity as it included some of the 12 wheel stock. I think some of the etched sides/ends were also available through 247 but Errol Surman seems to have kept ownership of those and they haven't been available since 2014. LRM has also continued to introduce new LNWR carriage kits, including some improved versions of the early 6 wheel kits available from others. Jol

Sandy, how did you make the Destination Boards. Brian Badger included some of the small ones with the 42' WCJS arc roof etched kit and I think he also produced some of the later, simple, roof mounted ones. Likewise how did you produce the etched windows.I want the same for the D10 but can't find a drawing or photo of the WCJS version.

John, Peter has already answered your question regarding the ex Badger kits. I don't have a list of the current range of Stevenson Carriages kits, but I don't recall the 42' Arc roof WCJS stock being among them. You'll have to write for a list, I think. The range, when BS ran it, seemed to consist of the later, larger stuff. He only introduced two new kits, the 45' Clerestory vans and sadly didn't take the opportunity to upgrade the kits with etched ends, etc. The kits are quite heavy when built (paxolin floor, cast ends, etc.) so need free running bogies. Using etched bogies and keeping/hacking the cast sides usually sorts that out. For some reason the gangways were always sold as an "extra". I find the sponge strip supplied to provide the flexibility too stiff,so have been experimenting with PB strip springs. I don't know what changes may have been introduced by Paul Barker, as the only BS kit I have - the 45' Boff bicycle van - was bought directly from him (all the others were original Badger kits).

Thank you Peter, very much appreciated. I think that while the average "modeller" might not produce comparable models, I still don't consider my work as anything exceptional against those "model makers" whose work I have seen. As a model maker you have to be willing to learn new skills//techniques and stretch yourself. I applaud anyone who will have a go and am happy to think that I may have helped a few along the way. Jol

Could you clarify to which piece of news you refer.

Some more carriages completed so I took some rather indifferent photos. Two WCJS 42' arc roof corridor coaches, a Brake Third W68 and Composite W54. Both Brian Badger kits, with BB or MJT bogies and Brassmasters "fixed" coupling to run with the D10 diner. LRM D221 50' Arc roof slip carriage. A LRM 42' Bk/3rd and a Microrail 42' Lav Composite. The latter was a strip and repaint as the original varnish coat had "yellowed" badly. I replaced the original radial underframe with a LRM bogie underframe and BB bogies for better running (some originals were upgraded to bogie underframes). I also modelled it with the additional third class lavatories as shown by the extra frosted windows.

Nice work with the coach livery John. I have just done a batch of seven carriages after a long break from painting and lining and realised that I had forgotten some of what I had learned and written about. While practice doesn't make perfect in my case, it certainly helps. Keep at it Jol