Jol Wilkinson

Puffers in Kenton has already been mentioned but that was one of the better shops in ye days of old. RTR and S/H upstairs (street level) and kits 'n bits downstairs (track level).

Others were Tony Collett's in Southsea, Blunt's at Mill Hill and Ray Rippon's in Leigh on Sea.

Sadly that type of shop has given way to the RTR emporium. I can buy plain or embossed plastic sheet and strip in my local shop, but not any decent solvent. On the other hand I could walk out with all the Peco trackwork, RTR locos/stock and RTP buildings to build an extensive 00 or N layout.

Hi Derek, I just had a look via the link kindly posted by someone else. Beautiful work. I had seen it a few years ago because I remember the part about the OO gauge track for your son, I thought that was great given most people who could model like you probably wouldn't countenance doing that Those P4/S7 types take it a bit too seriously sometimes.

Good modelling is always good modelling. What it has got to do with P4/S4 I can't see. And as one of those "types" are you saying I can't take my modelling seriously?

Jol

Don't know, I only went there once whilst I was working in Coventry in the early 70s. It seem a fairly interesting shop.

They had some S/H stock from what I remember and the guy that was there introduced me to "chemical frame blackening" instead of painting.

They had new stock as well.

 

Keith

My visit was somewhat later, in the late 80s. I think that the proprieter was one of that group of modellers in rhe Midlands that produced 4mm items such as Jackson Evans coach sides and loco plates, Model and Leisure kits, etc.

I used to visit regularly from work (bordesley green) at lunchtime, there was a fad for slot-cars (we had a works sports club slot-car track!) so both car and train purchases

Never the same once they moved to Hobs Moat road and dropped the trains.

 

There used to be a decent model shop in a housing estate on the S side of Coventry (Cheylesmore possibly?) Anybody remember it?

 

Keith

Keith

Wasn't that Modellers World? I went there to buy one of their etched LNWR coach kits but don't recall there being much other stuff. I think it was run by Bob Jones, although his wife was there when I called.

Jol

but just which of the GWR models in Larry's list can be easily backdated much before 1930?

 

Nick

Nick,

I can't answer that owing to my blissful ignorance of the GWR

I guess most RTR collector/modellers who would want to model the pre group period would be put off by the lack of matching stock anyway.

When I took up modelling railways again (about thirty years ago) the RTR stuff available was such that you had to build models if you wanted anything different. I originally cut my teeth on Wills, Gem and K's kits but became disillusioned with the results. When I started again I moved on to etched brass and after two failed early attempts with an MPD 3F and a Jidenco LNWR 0-8-2T suceeded with a Proscale LNWR Coal Tank.

So for me those white metal kits got me started as a model maker but I wouldn't consider building one nowadays if there was an etched alternative.

Jol

Gus,

I couldn't get either link to work.

However, I have sometimes found that the build up of tolerances between the crankpin bush and crankpin screw can sometimes upset what seems like an otherwise accurate set up. If you push the chassis along, then the rod/bush/pin relationship seems to work itself out. When you start putting effort through the rods then the build up in tolerance imposes a tight spot.

If alright as four coupled, but not six, then try loosening and then retightening the crankpins nuts at the tight spot position on the third axle. You may have to try the middle axle as well, although that could upset the four coupled running.

It's a bit more trial and error, but it may help.

Jol

Hi Iain,

Progress on the roofing looks great !!

Remember the detail associated with the LNWR signal box and the awning at the cabin window, maybe this is the requirement. While not the same cabin, the man and the flag is the need.

 

image.jpg

There's a modelling challenge. The window slides open, the signalman leans out and waves the flag.

LNWR G1/2 That Bachmann released?

Not in LNWR condition  i.e. doesn't have the round top firebox.

Despite Larry's list, the pre-group railway companies aren't, possibly other than the LSWR and GWR, sufficiently represented so that it is possible to model them with RTR locos and stock.

Not a problem for me as I enjoy making models.

Jol

"I said back then that the RTR people would be churning out pre-group locos one day"

Larry,

I think that "dribbling" would be more relevant than "churning".

Jol

Thanks Jol. P66 in the Jack Nelson book?

 

Iain

That's the one.

The photo is taken from an old postcard so not too sharp.

Jol

 That's interesting, "K's" models and kits started as a sideline to "Pop Keyser's" sweet and tobaco shop in the '50's. The firm moved to Banbury, I believe early/mid '70's, obviously with the passing years the plastic side of the business took over. From what I have read, the tooling for the railway kits went to "Autocom" who kept up production for some years. Does the tooling still exist? Mick.

Mick,

I have found this regarding Autocom and Nucast  http://www.crphillips-models.co.uk/newsflash.html

I can't say I entirely agree with the sentiments, although as a professional builder of 00 kits the loss of a wide range of whitemetal kits has probably hit his business more than those who build etched as well as w/m kits . I feel Autocom was another company that got left behind, particularly in terms of product/brand awareness. AFAIK they were only latterley available through Sherwood Models.

Jol

I believe that Keysers stopped manufacturing kits around 1990. N & K C Keyser Ltd are still listed as PLastic Product manufacturers in Banbury, Oxon.

I think that they didn't develop new products to compete sufficiently with the other kit manufacturers, especially when etched kits had become more popular. There may also have been other factors, particularly if model railway kits were only a small part of their business activity.

Iain,

I have just noticed a photo on page 66 of LNWR Portrayed showing Euston No.1 signal box. There are canopies over four of the seven sliding windows, probably the same as on the Camden box. The canopies are the full width of the sliding section window and it's fixed counterpart and appear to have miniature pointed LNWR valances along the front and ends.

Jol

Iain,

sadly all the LNWR locos were scrapped by the mid 50's,  Cauliflowers being one of the last to go. Only a very few were preserved. It's most unlikely that those, notably Hardwicke or the Coal Tank, would have been seen at Camden in the 60's.

Jol

There's some stuff here that would look good on the layout, Iain.

http://www.scalefour.org/LondonRoadModels/locos-tenders-chassis/lnwr/

Jol

If it goes to a museum then it would be worthwhile if a group of local modellers got together to form the  "Friends of Bramblewick"  and undertake to maintain it. With the best will in the world that is something of which museums have little experience.

The NRM lost interest in Heckmondwike and did nothing to look after it. It was ultimately scrapped.

Most of Jack Nelson's LNWR diorama's are in the Conwy Valley Railway Museum and despite being cased, are in need of a general overhaul. The LNWR Society hopes to undertake  this. The other one was in the Crewe Heritage Centre and has been removed for light restoration bythe LNWRS.

Unfortunately models slowly deteriorate over time, colours fade, etc. Bramblewick is a wonderful example of a well observed and beautifully created 3D image of a Victorian railway. It deserves to be preserved, sympathetically presented and carefully maintained.

Jol

Ian,

nice work again.

How have you gone about building the section of  staircase? I have to build a covered footbridge to link three platforms, spanning two pairs or tracks. The drawings in Jack Nelson's book gives details of the bridge and the stairs, but I haven't yet decided how to go about it. Probably built up from Evergreen strip and sheet.

Jol

Hi Jol

 

Is London Rd on the web anywhere?

 

Ian

Hi Ian,

London Road doesn't have a web "presence". I've never got around to it although there is a video of the layout in it's original terminus format by David Mylchreest on utube http://homepage.ntlworld.com/russelliott/nlg-london-road-watford-finescale.html.

I can only set up one section at a time to work on it, so decent photos are not easy to get at present.

I've used an occasional photo of the work on the "extension" to turn the layout into a through station. The two new scenic boards will be on show at expoEM in May, although there is no mention of that on the EMGS website. We'll also be taking the whole thing to S4um, although the scenic work won't be finished.

Jol

If freelance means it doesn't resemble the real thing, then it is very much alive and well.  

Ian P's idea (post #6) seems to me like the proper concept of a freelance layout, not actually based on an actual railway, but reflecting on what could actual happen with an appropriate infrastructure, etc.

Layouts that are just a collection of disconnected models, buildings, etc. also freelance, but somewhat unreal.

 

 

From all the research so far....

It looks as if the locking room has 3 bays, the right hand of which has the windows bricked up.

What is the projection on the mainline side of the box? About halfway along..... Like the roof to a porch but it's in mid air.

No toilet at the top of the stairs?

Could the porch be just that, so that the window could be kept open without the rain getting in. Perhaps the signalmen used to issue instructions to the locomen.

The loo could have been at ground level, near the coal and ash pens.

Although not of Camden, there are some great photos of LNWR infrastructure to be found here http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/index.htm

In particular the photos of Rugby station show some of the variety of signal boxes that were located there, with different locations for the toilets, coal stores, etc.

Jol

And Brian Lewis of Timbertracks is also apparently threatening to do a laser cut one (although I much rather he did the LNWR covered  timber footbridge I suggested to him).

For those that want a quick fix there is also the Prototype card kit 46M7: LMS (Draughton Road) Signal Box, another LNWR Type 4, size D.

The LRM kit has the advantage that you can use two or more to create a longer box (athough the D was the most common), with whichever base is suitable to the prototype location. One of the reasons why London Road No. 2 was built from two LRM kits.

Jol

The LNWR "standard" type could be either a type 4 or type 5, the later and less common version having taller windows. Richard Foster's book A Pictorial Record of LNWR Signalling originally published by OPC provides a wealth of information and is still available from the author. If anyone wants a contact address for him, please let me know.

London Road Models do a Type 4 kit, for a "D" size with 25 levers. The interior and the material for the base isn't included, (the locking room etched widows and door are) so the builder can provide a stone, brick, timber or gantry base as required.

However the larger boxes can be built using two or more kits (e.g. as on the L&WMRS layout Clarendon). 

To my knowledge no one makes a kit for the later Type 5 box. The Bachmann offering is somewhat inaccurate and the window dimensions put it somewhere between a Type 4 and a Type 5.

Jol

Chee Tor and Bramblewick are two which really stand out for me - if you even have to ask why, then I have no desire to converse with you at all!

 

There are plenty of others of course, but these two always impress me!

 Agree completely and I would also especially mention Penlan.

I would also suggest joining a society that has a good reference library of material in both books and photographs etc. Whilst I am obviously going to plug the SLS (I am their PRO) as we have a vast archive of photographs and a good library there are other societies out there too.

The LNWR Society also has a vast range of photos, drawings,publications, etc. These aren't just limited to the LNWR period as the locos, rolling stock and in particular the infrastructure lasted for a long time. If you are interested in modelling the railway scene to capture the right atmosphere, then knowing what it actually looked like is a great assett.

Even if you don't join a Society, most will sell you copies of photos,drawings, etc.

"Expensive" is a relative term but compared with some of the hobbies described, railway modelling doesn't seem so.

However it depends on a number of factors, including disposable income, etc. as well as an individual's perception.

All my modelling is kit and scratch build based, because I choose to model a pre-group railway. The items that I buy are more expensive that RTR and RTP products, but because my requirements for locos, stock, etc. are probably less than most people would have in their collection, then to me my hobby isn't expensive.

For example, a 4mm loco kit, with wheels, etc. is probably around £150 -£180, much more than most RTR locos. However, I have eleven finished locos and another eight kits still to build. That is enough to run my layout and as I started about twenty five years ago the cost has been spread over a long time. I have had a lot of satisfaction from building my models, so for me they have also been good value for money.

This hobby is like any other, it is as expensive as you choose to make it.

Jol